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Posted by MilnerRoute 3 days ago

Adafruit: Arduino’s Rules Are ‘Incompatible With Open Source’(thenewstack.io)
431 points | 247 commentspage 4
archerx 2 days ago|
>Adafruit’s Torrone had also said Arduino’s new documents “introduce an irrevocable, perpetual license over anything users upload.”

Yea that's gonna be a hard pass for me. Thank goodness for the Pi Pico which means I'll never have to use Arduino ever again. On a side note, the new Arduino IDE based on Monaco looked nice but made development so painful I just stopped. I had to keep disconnecting and reconnecting devices all the time to upload sketches when before with the old IDE that was never an issue. Everything Arduino feels like a regression.

DeepSeaTortoise 2 days ago||
IMO too many people come to the conclusion that Qualcomm will in some way screw up the Arduino takeover at the expense of the community.

And I think these people are right, but that is not necessary a bad thing.

There is just about no reason a giant like Qualcomm would take over something like Arduino for any other purpose but to acquire resources (talent, customers, community, processes, documentation, ...) they can use to teach themselves how to become more open, to what degree they even want to and to have a trusted platform they can take their initial steps in and will get feedback from.

And the reality is, that someone with little experience will screw up badly, several times. I mean, look at the current state of the major silicon IP holders, the only reason they dont ship brain-chips with their NDAs that explode the moment you mention the wrong part number infornt of a competitor is because the NDAs for the documentation on how to install the brain-chips would get them stuck in recursion hell.

And just as little experience Qualcomm has at making open source a successful business strategy, Arduino has just as little experience at being a corporate Godzilla trying to carefully pet the egg they just adopted. And let's be real: Open source projects OWE it to their community to be financially successful, because it's that financial success that guarantees that the project CAN STAY open and wont force its core maintainers into choosing between their commitment to their community and a fulfilling lifestyle, although for someone like Qualcomm this success can probably be something else but financial in nature (acquiring talent, their products becoming a preferred choice, schools teaching students using Qualcomm products, whatever).

Both Arduino and Qualcomm will end up outside of their domain and it'd be surprising if this would not result in major mistakes being made.

.

Qualcomm has to evaluate whether their new talent at Arduino is doing a good job and are suddenly looking at a giant dumpster fire, wondering what could have possibly caused this since their lawyers aren't even half-done sticking on the "by Qualcomm" labels yet.

Right now, instead of trying to pressure Qualcomm into making commitments they do not understand, the community should try to adopt the role of a stakeholder, who prioritizes a long and healthy relationship with a currently struggling contractor over getting the desired product at a reasonable timeline.

The community needs to make a cold day in hell happen, calm down, get together and formalize what they think they liked about Arduino up until now, the fundamental requirements that need to be retained or even developed and what would be nice to have.

quijoteuniv 2 days ago||
Is this another one of those opensource project gone wrong, that when they lose the user base because of this gray(blackish) i would say) “new terms” they apologise and try to come back… often too late?
SV_BubbleTime 2 days ago||
After Qualcomm bought them? Who could have seen this coming? Hang on while I get back to arguing with my MSP that I really would prefer ProxMox over HyperV to replace VMWare.
ocdtrekkie 2 days ago||
I did some evaluating on this option and there's definitely complexity to bear in mind: Proxmox has worse support for my storage and backup solutions, and if the MSP you are working with has a ton of experience on Hyper-V migrations and limited Proxmox experience, the support you get will lack.

I will say I'd eventually love to have my day job environment on Proxmox but it isn't quite ready to be there today. No shade to anyone who is able to be there by any means, but I think it's fair to say hypervisors aren't something you want to choose on vibes alone.

SV_BubbleTime 2 days ago||
100% nailed my current issue.

We need to get off of VMWare as the min license for us is now $15k pre year… from $3k. But the MSP knows the support for ProxMox isn’t there, and they have SLA contracts to uphold.

I’m going to have to HyperV which I expect to have the same issues as VMWare soon enough/someday.

ocdtrekkie 2 days ago||
IMHO the key thing is to build your ability to switch. VMware did this because nobody has plans to switch their hypervisor. Learn to.

If you go to Hyper-V this year, leave yourself the flexibility to move away from it in a couple years. Choose backup solutions and storage solutions which enable flexibility.

SV_BubbleTime 2 days ago||
Any recommendation on how we would do that?

We back up VM’s with Veeam, but we don’t back up the content outside of the VM presence if that makes any sense.

They’re effectively telling me we go to hypervisor this year before Feb for VMWare billing reasons. And my hope is that by the time I get tired of HyperV, or we need to move that a solution exists to convert to next.

It’s either that, or they’re trying to sell me on scale computing VM’s and their hardware.

ocdtrekkie 2 days ago|||
Veeam is a good start because they already support a bunch of hypervisors and are working on more. But for example, Veeam can't yet do replication with Proxmox, but it can with VMware and Hyper-V.

For hardware, I'd avoid going in on hypervisor platforms that need you to buy their specific hardware. Your standard Dell, HP, Lenovo servers can run almost anything, but if you buy a hyperconverged system you are going to get yourself locked in.

A big lesson I learned is: Make sure to divide up your storage pools enough! There's no easy way to gradually migrate if your storage array is one big VMware VMFS file system.

ocdtrekkie 2 days ago|||
Oh, one more thing: Straight up ask other vendors about hypervisor support. If I'm having a conversation about another type of product and they tell me they support VMware and Hyper-V, I'm going to ask them what to expect if I switch to Proxmox in a couple years.

The way a vendor answers this won't just help you avoid future lock in, it'll likely reveal a lot about a company's confidence in their product and their support team.

MomsAVoxell 2 days ago||
Proxmox is awesome, just do it. Ask for forgiveness not permission.
seg_lol 2 days ago||
There is a lot of shade being thrown against Adafruit in this discussion thread which is disappointing.

It is disappointing because it distracts from the discussion around Open Source and Arduino as a long term educational tool. Regardless if that shade is in good faith or not, it distracts from the conversation we should be having.

moron4hire 2 days ago|
Yeah, let's not forget that Arduino was built on a history of being kinda sheisty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino#History

And Adafruit has been a stalwart of open hardware advocacy. If it were anyone else, I might entertain the idea that they're "just trying to drum up some marketing." But we're talking about Limor "LadyAda" Fried here. She's good people and always has been. Her opinion should count for a lot.

RobotToaster 2 days ago||
> our commitment to the open source spirit is unwavering and Arduino’s core mission remains unchanged

Running a proprietary SaaS doesn't really show commitment to open source.

_ache_ 2 days ago|
I agree, but that is nothing new. The original SaaS was already proprietary.

And btw, the "reverse engineering" close was already here too. You can check the archive.org of Jan 2025, months before the Qualcomm acquisition.

https://web.archive.org/web/20250120145427/https://www.ardui...

So this citation, is basically fake news and FUD. The *now* part is false and this hide the fact that the "platform" is only the SaaS.

> Phillip Torrone had warned [...] Arduino’s users were now “explicitly forbidden from reverse engineering or even attempting to understand how the platform works unless Arduino gives permission.”

RobotToaster 2 days ago||
I feel like the Qualcomm thing has just woken up a lot of people to how Arduino has been enshittifying for years

They released their first closed source "pro" boards in 2021

https://blog.adafruit.com/2023/07/12/when-open-becomes-opaqu...

altaccount2026 2 days ago|
[flagged]
klustregrif 2 days ago||
I’ve never heard of this, and it feels like if true this is the type of thing that would be covered. Do you have any links to references that support this claim?
tdeck 2 days ago|||
Do you have any links related to this? I did a quick Google and I couldn't find anything relevant.
altaccount2026 2 days ago||
https://bsky.app/profile/a.very.sleepy.galactic.furball.disc...

Unfortunately, it’s not isolated.

https://chaos.social/@North/115605819126197877

Dylan16807 2 days ago|||
The doxxing listed here is saying a person's first name? I think? Maybe former name? This is hard to follow. It's so deep in arguing about arguing that I can't tell if he's a 1/10 problem or a 9/10 problem.

I probably missed some of the cross links but this is a mess.

Can you elaborate on "harassing trans people"? From these links at best I can guess at one of them being trans but I can't tell if that's related to the argument; who else is on that list?

RobotToaster 2 days ago||
That seems to be literally it.

This adds a little more context, but it still seems to be a complete nothingburger. It also looks like the user was harassing adafruit for not condemning the use of AI.

https://digipres.club/@discatte/115601133682447929

RobotToaster 2 days ago||||
Literally everyone involved in this sounds annoying.
shumpy 2 days ago|||
Clash of Cluster B personalities.
stuffn 2 days ago||
How is this remotely related?
worthless-trash 2 days ago||
We must drag names through the mud at every opportunity!

Conform conform conform.

worthless-trash 2 days ago||
Damn hn showing your true colors there..

You are either really bad at detecting humour or you actually agree with me but hate it being pointed out.

Dylan16807 2 days ago|||
Or maybe it wasn't a reason that makes you look superior, and it's just that a couple people thought the joke was annoying.

You also can't evaluate "HN" based on a couple downvotes on a comment in a buried thread. (I can't see what the score was but it's currently positive so I'm guessing a couple.)

worthless-trash 1 day ago||
It was around negative 12, in my lifetime of comments thats quite a down vote.
Dylan16807 1 day ago||
And then it came all the way back up? Wow.
gloriadolly305 2 days ago|||
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