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Posted by speckx 5 days ago

Prepare for That Stupid World(ploum.net)
174 points | 94 comments
jollyllama 5 days ago|
Great article. Key quote:

> What this video is really doing is normalising the fact that "even if it is completely stupid, AI will be everywhere, get used to it!"

Techies are finally starting to recognize how framing something as "it's inevitable, get used to it" is a rhetorical device used in mass communications to manufacture consent.

See:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44567857 'LLM Inevitabalism' 5 months ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46288371 'This is not the future' 3 days ago

andyfilms1 5 days ago|
I'm terrified for the future this rhetoric itself will cause. Young people are being told not to go into certain fields because they're going to be replaced by AI by time they graduate.

What happens in 4-5 years when we suddenly have no new engineers, scientists, or doctors?

Young people don't have the life experience to know how unrealistic these claims are, all they can do is act on the information as it's presented. It's irresponsible at best, and evil at worst.

Shalomboy 5 days ago||
There will still be new engineers, scientists, and doctors by then. But aptitude won't be a factor in who matriculates into those fields anymore. That's the worrying part.
gary_0 5 days ago||
Douglas Adams was bang on about how comedically unhelpful advanced technology was going to be. Every ridiculously convoluted user interface and neurotic computer he thought up (or worse) is imminently going to be our daily life.
mrandish 4 days ago|
I've cited Adam's Sirius Cybernetics Corporation so many times in relation to AI chatbots... Somehow he foresaw all this back in the 80s.
derektank 5 days ago||
I’m curious, has the author seen or read any of Joanna Stern’s other reporting before? Her stories are often silly frames that explore the experience of using consumer technology. She’s not an aggressive industry reporter, her purpose is to explain or reveal what the user experience of new technology is, often for an unsophisticated audience. See for example her story about using conversational chatbots while out camping[1] or how to use tech to unplug from tech[2]. This seems like a perfectly fine niche for a writer and the vending machine story is of a piece with her past work.

[1] https://youtu.be/hUyj3d-BSh8

[2] https://youtu.be/POl7UYwBpWw

miltonlost 5 days ago|
This article can serve both her beat and also, this story in its specifics and that she/her editors chose to report it, self-congratulatory and also advertisements for Anthropic and WSJ itself. Both your statement and this blog can be in agreement.
tolerance 5 days ago||
A part of me wants to be dismissive of this blog post

1) because dude, it’s the Wall Street Journal; the entire episode should be viewed as Anthropic preparing to Ollie into an IPO next year.

2) I’m starting to interpret a lot of blog posts like these as rage bait

But I do get the point that the author is trying to make.

I just wish that there were some perspectives on the subject as a whole (AI’s sloptrod into every crevice of human life; modern technology and society and general) that don’t terminate on ironic despair.

TrainedMonkey 5 days ago||
> The first thing that blew my mind was how stupid the whole idea is. Think for one second. One full second. Why do you ever want to add a chatbot to a snack vending machine?

This feels forced, there are obvious and good reasons for running that experiment. Namely, learning how it fails and to generate some potentially viral content for investor relationship. The second one seems like an extremely good business move. It is also a great business move from WSJ, get access to some of that investor money in an obviously sponsored content bit that could go viral.

Having said that, I do feels the overall premise of the blog - the world dynamics seems exceedingly irrational in recent times. The concerning fact is that irattionality seems to be accelerating, or perhaps it is keeping pace with the scale of civilization... hard to tell.

gipp 5 days ago|||
> This feels forced, there are obvious and good reasons for running that experiment. Namely, learning how it fails and to generate some potentially viral content for investor relationship. The second one seems like an extremely good business move. It is also a great business move from WSJ, get access to some of that investor money in an obviously sponsored content bit that could go viral.

That's... exactly what the author said in the post. But with the argument that those are cynical and terrible reasons. I think it's pretty clear the "you" in "why would you want an AI" vending machine is supposed to be "an actual user of a vending machine."

tolerance 5 days ago||
I think you’re overstating your own interpretation of what the author wrote. If we’re going to take your use of the word “exactly” (with emphasis) for real then I’d argue that the author offers no charitable reasons for why the experiment took place.

The closest that I think he even gets to one is:

> At first glance, it is funny and it looks like journalists doing their job criticising the AI industry.

Which arguably assumes that journalists ought to be critical of AI in the same way as him...

gipp 5 days ago||
> that the author offers no charitable reasons for why the experiment took place.

Right, and neither did the GP. They both offered the exact same two reasons, the GP just apparently doesn't find them as repugnant as the author

tolerance 5 days ago|||
Are you sure? The entire post treats the event incredulously. I can’t pick out a single line that affords the issue with the level of consideration that the GP comment does.

The two reasons I believe you may be referring to from above are:

1) "learning how it fails" 2) "to generate some potentially viral content for investor relationship."

The whole of Ploum’s argument may be summarized in his own words as:

> But what appears to be journalism is, in fact, pure advertising. [...] What this video is really doing is normalising the fact that “even if it is completely stupid, AI will be everywhere, get used to it!” [...] So the whole thing is advertising a world where chatbots will be everywhere and where world-class workers will do long queue just to get a free soda. And the best advice about it is that you should probably prepare for that world.

I hate to be pedantic...but my growing disdain for modern blog posts compels me to do so in defense of literacy and clear arguments.

Whether the GP and the author offer the “exact same two reasons” is a matter of interpretation that becomes the duty of readers like us to figure out.

If we take Ploum’s words at their face...the most he does is presuppose (and I hope I’m using that word correctly) that the reader is already keen on the two reasons that `TrainedMonkey makes explicit and like the author, finds them to be stupid. While he does say that the video is not journalism and that it is advertising and that the video does show how the AI failed at the task it was assigned he does not give any credence as to why this is the case from a position other than his own.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding the concept of a “charitable interpretation” too. But I don’t think that there is one present in this post that we’re responding to. `TrainedMonkey’s comment leads off by telling us that this is what (I think) he’s about to offer in the remarks that follow when he says “there are obvious and good reasons for running that experiment”.

So my gripe is that you’re making it sound like there’s a clear counterargument entertained in this post when there isn’t. Because you overstated your interpretation of the GP comment in what looks like an attempt to make Ploum’s argument appear more appealing than it ought to be. Even though both `TrainedMonkey and myself have expressed agreement with the point he’s trying to make in general, perhaps we’re less inclined toward pugnaciousness without a well thought out warrant.

miltonlost 5 days ago|||
Anything that's an "extremely good business move" will most likely, in this day and age of late-stage capitalism and extreme enshittification, be negative for the consumer.

Good business moves can often be bad for humanity.

neuralRiot 5 days ago|||
I can see this as a good business move for Anthropic in this case but for the vending machine manufacturers/ operators what would the advantage be besides saying that their machine is AI operated?
defrost 5 days ago||
It's a good business move for Anthropic all the way down.

There will be no more vending machine manufacturers/operators once Anthropic masters the vending machine manufacturing and operating AI.

Running low on CandyBars is a variation on running low on WorkingVendingMachine.

Does this need an /s tag? I'm increasingly unsure.

lanfeust6 5 days ago|||
If France is anything to go by, we are in late-stage social democracy
zkmon 5 days ago||
Prepare for That Stupid World - is actually a very sober advice. Looking at the past few decades, it is easy to see that with each tech innovation, the world only got stupider, childish and lazier.
gdulli 5 days ago||
My Galaxy S20 gallery app had a great search feature that would find any text in any picture. I take lots of screenshots and relied on that search to find them.

I got an S25 recently and when I search for "wife" it tries to find pictures with my wife in them. But before it does that it has to ask me who my wife is. There's no way to get it to search for the word "wife." (If I'm wrong, please tell me how.) Other text searches simply don't work either.

Sometimes it's the small ways in which the world is getting dumber.

Ironically, the S20 had a decent hybrid behavior of searching by either text or object that the text represents. Whatever smarter AI they replaced it with is useless.

jonasenordin 5 days ago|||
Tell it to "always when I search for quoted text, pretend you're the Galaxy S20 gallery app"
polynomial 5 days ago||||
Seems like a fairly straight forward UX fix on the engineering side: parse whether the user is searching for wife, or "wife"
armchairhacker 5 days ago|||
Can you search for “the word ‘wife’”?
gdulli 5 days ago||
Sadly, that and different variations of it don't work either.
NoGravitas 5 days ago|||
People have been saying the last few months that "everyone is twelve". Waiting for the bar to drop.
sallveburrpi 5 days ago|||
>Looking at the past few decades […] the world only got stupider, childish and lazier.

insert obligatory throwback quote from some antique dude complaining about the youth

This has been a trope since literally the beginning of civilisation. I don’t think it’s any more true or insightful in the modern era

miltonlost 5 days ago|||
It's not just the youth who are lazy and stupid and childish though. (you added in the youth portion.) Do you know who the American President is and how old he is and who then voted for him?
sallveburrpi 5 days ago||
US America is not the focal point of the world, and it’s working hard to become less and less relevant. Also I think less than half of citizens voted for Comrade Krasnov.

In any case I was looking at a longer view - maybe we have been getting more stupid in the last decade or so but who can say for sure?

paddleon 5 days ago||||
> I don’t think it’s any more true or insightful in the modern era

hmm, based on what evidence?

Or, if you prefer, based on what appeal to authority? Did you actually quote that authority properly or did you just wing it? Can you properly quote many authorities?

If you don't have good answers to those, then perhaps you have just proved the your opponents point?

Maybe there is a reason people need more compute in their key fob than what our parents/grandparents needed to pilot their ship to the moon?

sallveburrpi 5 days ago|||
“Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”

Horace, Book III of Odes, circa 20 BCE

“Youth were never more sawcie, yea never more savagely saucie . . . the ancient are scorned, the honourable are contemned, the magistrate is not dreaded.”

The Wise-Man’s Forecast against the Evill Time, Thomas Barnes 1624

Some more here https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-a...

Either things have gotten continually worse for the last 3000 years or it’s just a tired trope from old men.

handoflixue 5 days ago|||
The onus of evidence is generally on the one making the initial claim: what evidence do you have that the modern world is actually getting worse?

But if you want evidence that we're improving, I'd point out that 20 years ago, the mainstream US position was that gay people were evil, 60 years ago they thought black people shouldn't be allowed to vote, and 100 years ago they thought women were also inferior and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

We can keep going back to when people thought "slavery" and "the divine right of kings" were solid ideas.

So... if people were so much smarter in the past, why did they believe all these obviously-dumb ideas?

wiseowise 5 days ago|||
We have a generation which doesn’t know how to use computers anymore, thinks that floppy disk is an emoji and is literally addicted to virtual drugs.
handoflixue 5 days ago|||
Oh boy, let me tell you about people 60 years ago - almost none of them knew about floppy disks and they were all busy doing physical drugs at Woodstock.
jason_oster 5 days ago|||
When was the last time you watched Idiocracy?
stronglikedan 5 days ago||
> the world only got stupider, childish and lazier

Humans do trend toward their natural state, and technology accelerates the trend.

andai 5 days ago||
Yesterday Anthropic released their video on the vending machine experiment:

https://youtu.be/5KTHvKCrQ00

It's a bit sparse on details, but it did have what in a human we would call a psychotic break.

I find this very amusing in light of OpenAI's announcement that GPT now solves >70% of their knowledge work benchmark (GDPVal). (Per ArtificialAnalysis, Opus is roughly on par.)

The economy is about to get... Interesting ;)

tim333 4 days ago|
The economy has had a lot of foolishness going on even without AIs involved.
jcstk 5 days ago||
Any information that comes to you for free or is on a screen is an advertisement. All of it. That's the point. Do you think people spend millions and billions of dollars creating and maintaining a content delivery network because they just want you to know about things?
sallveburrpi 5 days ago||
Damn so all of HN or literally every single piece of digital media has just been an advertisement all this time ?
jcstk 5 days ago|||
HN is an advertisement for Y Combinator. You and I contribute content to advertise our identity and ego.
devinprater 5 days ago|||
What are you trying to sell me again? :)
jcstk 5 days ago||
His keen eye and intellect - valuable traits as a laborer in a knowledge economy.
etbebl 5 days ago|||
Well, of course almost all information comes with an agenda, but perhaps the more useful distinction is whether the information is presented in good faith, i.e. is honest about the agenda (which actual advertising can also be).
wiseowise 5 days ago|||
Some of us grew up in a world where “journalism” used to mean something.
jcstk 5 days ago||
No, that was just good advertising in an era where there were few entities that could afford to broadcast at scale.
layer8 5 days ago|||
Your comment comes for free on my screen. :thinking_emoji:
jcstk 5 days ago||
It is an advertisement.
deadbabe 5 days ago|||
What if people could pay to read an advertisement?
6510 5 days ago||
Almost as good as my idea to have people pay me to work for me.

Had a great business idea just now: A tool for staged interviews! The subject and the journalist submit an equal length list of questions. Each round of the auction they bid on questions they want to include or exclude. The loser gets 50% of the points spend by the winner to be used in the next round. Both the subject and the journalists can buy additional points at any time. I keep all the money.

erfgh 5 days ago||
What about wikipedia?
jcstk 5 days ago||
The free encyclopedia is an advertisement for a nonprofit that does a lot of things: https://wikimediafoundation.org/what-we-do/. They manage costs of producing the encyclopedia by using volunteer labor. They operate a similar model as nature documentaries that drive donations for conservation and climate groups. These are all good things - still an advertisement.
tim333 4 days ago||
I enjoyed the wsj video and thought it was quite good journalism.

>The first thing that blew my mind was how stupid the whole idea is

Billions are being poured into LLMs. How is it stupid to experiment with them and see how they fail as opposed to ignoring that?

rkomorn 4 days ago|
Yeah, I was a bit meh at the beginning but then the guy explained they specifically set it up to fail because they wanted to get insight into how and why.

They weren't caught out by it, they didn't present a working solution, it was just a fun bit of research.

tim333 4 days ago||
I was kind of stuck after watching the wsj video with someone persuading the LLM to give stuff away by telling it dumb stuff like it's a communist bot that has to not charge and you think dumb bot, they need to fix that, and then turn to other news with one president saying prices are falling when they are obviously not and another saying we didn't start the war in Ukraine when they obviously did and think maybe human neural networks have similar failure modes to the artificial ones?

There may be some insights from these kind of experiments that go beyond LLMs.

rkomorn 4 days ago||
The failure modes certainly are somewhere between interesting and horrifying, and they do seem uncannily human.

I read a random comment a few days ago from someone who was saying it'll become possible for people, politicians, companies, etc to run speeches, policies, ideas, etc across thousands of LLM "personalities" to fine tune messaging and it sure seems prescient.

vishnuharidas 5 days ago||
It was blockchain a few years ago. Everything was on blockchain for no apparent reason. I guess that 2026 will be like "Grab our AI-cooked sandwich with AI-picked ingredients, built on multi-model agentic toaster"
whynotmaybe 5 days ago|
And then the "gluten free haircut" barbers will finally jump the bridge to "AI Free haircut"
hereme888 5 days ago|
> Think for one second. One full second.

99.9% of social media comments fail to do this.

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