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Posted by ybceo 3 days ago

Privacy doesn't mean anything anymore, anonymity does(servury.com)
451 points | 290 commentspage 2
o999 3 days ago|
@ybceo As long as you use Cloudflare to verify users [fingerprints] and traffic between users and your service is decrypted at Cloudflare side, I am afraid it difficult to take these anonymity claims seriously.

Please do not to rely on fingerprinters or CDNs that does TLS-termination for you.

jacquesm 3 days ago||
There is no such thing as anonymity. With the number of bits required to ID a person and the fact that you are leaking such bits all the time you can simply forget about anonymity.

Many people online seem to think that they are anonymous and so were emboldened to do stuff that they might not have done if they had realized this. They continued to feel extremely good at this right up until the knock on the door.

wisty 3 days ago||
> realized

Most UK and Australian writers would spell it "realised" so there's a bit right there.

Even if you include no personal information, there is information in writing style.

Stylometry is the study of this. Yes, there's also adversarial stylometry - distorting your writing style to fool an analysis. It's probably effective now, but that could change overnight and every archived post that every OSINT organisation has collected is deanomynised.

Yeah you can say "I change my style". But there's some bits that don't have false positives. If I EVER say "praise the omminsiah" I'm definetly au fait in 40k memes. If I ever say au fait I'm a person who has at least a rough idea of what it means. There's no false positive here, so if you can just find about 29 undeniable uncorrelated bits that are known to not have false positives ... a more advanced analysis could exploit this in a more continuous way (e.g. the likelihood of it being a false positive). I should shut up now.

hilbert42 3 days ago||
"Stylometry is the study of this."

It's as old as history. In the days super-abbreviated telegrams (words were costly) you could even get two for the price of one--the author and the Morse code operator who actually sent the telegram. He could be recognized by his Morse fist, other Morse operators on the network would recognize him by the style of his sending even though they were only listening to dots and dashes,

integralid 2 days ago|||
Stop with that doom and gloom. You can absolutely be anonymous online if you want to and have some basic technical knowledge (every HN reader does).

I could try to prove it to you, but the only proof you need is that cybercrime exists and millions (or tens of millions) of dollars are stolen every day. If anonymity didn't exist it would be easy to stop this, wouldn't it?

jacquesm 2 days ago||
They're not anonymous. They are just in places where the local authorities encourage their behavior.
schmuckonwheels 3 days ago||
Well there's anonymity from authorities, and there's anonymity from garden variety lunatics.

There exists a grey area between not getting away with nefarious activities, and not having your life ruined by a lynch mob because you didn't approve their preferred CoC on a hobby project or some other perceived injustice.

pona-a 3 days ago||
Is there? The government apparatus that's meant to investigate these crimes is the same one elected by the mob.

If you find yourself a member of any group a campaign can mobilize the mob against, that entire investigatory apparatus can be turned against you.

Without privacy, we are doomed to endless purity purges.

duskdozer 3 days ago||
Maybe ironically - just going on the title because I can't read the rest as a result - it's behind a cloudflare gate.
CalRobert 3 days ago||
Sadly, everybody using a browser from a massive ad company and an idp (not to mention a company with an interest in crawling the entire web for AI at the same time site owners are dealing with better scrapers) means the entire web will be login-only over time.
squigz 3 days ago||
We're quite a few years into this period of technology. At a certain point, these "AI is going to kill the web!" predictions either need to come true or just be dismissed as false.
bigyabai 3 days ago|||
I don't see how those points bolster your conclusion. These pressures predate AI by over a decade and haven't forced a significant tidal change in the way the internet is used.
eleveriven 3 days ago||
The irony is that the same companies pushing us toward login-only everything are also the ones best positioned to survive it
mnls 3 days ago||
According to article, the whole authorization system is flawed. But we haven’t invent a new one and the one we’ve got never meant to be private, it is just a way to separate users from each other. We need something unique, a "primary key" for our DB, and that’s email or phone or username that has to be stored somewhere. A server, someone else’s computer, call it what you want. It has good privacy between users, but the admin can see everything, because otherwise management of the service would be impossible.

There is no anonymity, there is always someone you have to trust in the chain of WAN networking (DNS,ISP,VPN). If you want anonymity and privacy, you selfhost (examining the code is also a prerequisite). There is no other way to do it.

wrxd 3 days ago|
> but the admin can see everything, because otherwise management of the service would be impossible.

It depends on what service you’re offering. There are many cases where you can have end-to-end encryption so that you can know who your users are, host their data but cannot do anything with it.

jfengel 2 days ago||
Like security, the Internet doesn't tolerate half measures. You either have perfect privacy or none.

A lot of our intuitions about both are based on obscurity: nobody is interested enough to devote their lives to you. That's not the case any more. You are exposed to every person on the planet, and they have the tools to automate attacks on every single person.

That's not to say "give up", but we need to find a new understanding of how our lives work. It's like we're all hunter-gatherers who find ourselves instantly in the largest and fastest city, with nobody to teach us the ropes.

whynotmaybe 2 days ago|
Which is kinda interesting because the only people I know without any internet presence are very old or, working for intelligence services.
necovek 2 days ago||
Isn't the actual difference between privacy and anonimity that one indicates that the company knows who you are, but ensures this stays "private", and the other is about not knowing who you are?
WolfeReader 2 days ago||
Yes. Privacy and anonymity are both useful in different contexts. This article is just an ad for a service.
adipid 2 days ago||
100%! Privacy and anonymity isn't the same thing.
rumpelstiel 2 days ago||
Using digital money (fiat or non anonymoized crypto) exposes you. you can not be part of a legal business without doing that except accepting real coins, and even then you have fingerprints on it, or maybe they can scan the banknote id and trace that to an ATM, and so on. The only way to be absolute anonymous is stealing some hardware and trying to get it anonymously into some kind of infrastructure you dont own.
rumpelstiel 2 days ago|
This is nowadays easier and cheaper then years ago because there are so many fuckdarts out there exposing their routers and dont give a shit about security.
10000truths 2 days ago||
The biggest risk to this business model isn't the government, but the payment processor. Anonymity makes it easy for unsavory characters to use stolen credit cards to buy your compute. The inevitable barrage of chargebacks will then cause Stripe to cut you off. Hell, if you're particularly unlucky, your payment processor might even cut you off proactively, if they decide that your lack of KYC makes you a risk.
drnick1 2 days ago|
This is where crypto comes in. Payment processors have excessive power over users. Even Valve was recently targeted.
nilslindemann 3 days ago|
And, also not very funny, those corps never tell in advance which data they "require". They grab my mail on "the first page" of the registration form. Then, on "the second page", they ask for my phone and my address. Should I decide to agree to this, they will finally tell me on "the third page", that they only support credit card, no PayPal, no direct payment via Bank ...
nilslindemann 7 hours ago|
The PSF is the most recent org which did not get my donation due to this. https://donate.python.org/ X pages, I will not know in advance which of my data is required and which payment option is supported. All this could be on one page, I guess.
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