Posted by zeristor 3 days ago
Seems like it would require more cable than a straight line so I am guessing there is a reason for it
-gotta hang them somehow, and in a very controlled way.
-thermal expansion, very important not to cause axial strain on a cable, which happens on tight bends.
You might think it would be enough to just have slack "somewhere" but I think you get to have many many micro adjustments when you have it across the entire length.
Why don't HV telephone lines do this?
I have no idea. Maybe because they can hang and droop more easily. I hope someone more knowledgeable gives a real answer.
TL;DR
Camera makes it look more than it is, it's mostly just sag
If you want to see electrical with significant zig zag, open up the wall of a house that was built without very detailed plans, but still hired an electrician with a lot of prior experience being told to move stuff after the fact. They just zig zag it like crazy under the drywall, so there's an incredible amount of slack to pull wire to new and exciting unplanned locations.
And I wish people would understand how costs work.
Pylons need space right, they also need maintenance corridors and access. Every ~360m you need a space to put a pylon[1]. Can you imagine the cost of buying 400m2 every 360 in zone 1?
what about the scaffolding when you need to re-string the cables? can you imagine how expensive that would be? what about if a lorry smacks into it? Its just not practical.
I grew up in norfolk, next to a bunch of HV pylons. No-one commented on them, because they were always there. THey are going to put some more in, and suddenly "its a blot on the land scape" and its "ecological damaging" Then its proposed that the cables are buried. apparently a 200 meter clearing 30km long is more ecologically friendly than pylons ever n hundred meters.
but thats an aside.
[1]https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-distance-between-electrici...
London is the place that costs don't work. It is full of things that don't need to be there, driving up the real estate prices. The port closed decades ago, so let's move the insurance and FX markets somewhere cheaper? Let's move out the government departments too.
Modern London is all about MPs who are physically tethered to Westminster by in person voting, being surrounded by the kind of people who want direct access to MPs...
All of the companies who specialise in creaming money off real companies gravitate towards that pig trough. Today they need data centres as close as possible, so they can cream money off faster. And we now have to feed those parasites with extra power lines.
Don't lecture me on costs, while London continues to try so hard to inflate the price of the tidal mud it resides on, by sucking in the rest of the UKs wealth.
no, because this is mostly a logical fallacy.
> It is full of things that don't need to be there
Like what specifically? Most heavy industry moved out in the 70/80s, the port moved to essex in the 80s. The fish and meat veg moved out to canary wharf, and are going to move further out soon. what else should be taken away?
> Today they need data centres as close as possible,
This is a cable replacement, but yeah, lets go with new datacentres in london (as we know planning is quick and simple, so they are popping up weekly....) However the key issue is that population density is now back to somewhere like it was in the 40s (https://trustforlondon.org.uk/data/population-over-time/)
So whilst power demand is largely flat, infra doesn't last for ever, so even power cables need to be replaced.
> Modern London is all about MPs who are physically tethered to Westminster by in person voting, being surrounded by the kind of people who want direct access to MPs...
Yup, all 8.9 million people that live there are entirely there to do lobbying. I to am a lobbyist.
> Don't lecture me on costs, while London continues to try so hard to inflate the price of the tidal mud it resides on, by sucking in the rest of the UKs wealth.
Well, as you've neatly avoided any mention of costs of tunnel vs pylons, its not really a lecture is it. I hope you come to peace with the general concept of london.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxe...
1) the amount of wealth claimed to be generated in London, that was actually just financial services sucking in money from the rest of the UK
2) The cost of all the pensioners that left London when they retired, claiming their pension and health care in a different part of the country
London is effectively kept going by these infrastructure projects and so many UK government agencies and businesses being headquartered there. Even the monarchy plays a role, as a massive gravy train mostly based there. All that money keeps other businesses in London going. Every time someone pays UK taxes in any form they are supporting jobs and physical facilities based there. The BBC is another one. People throughout the UK are forced to pay a licence fee that is mostly used to produce content in and about London.
This is part of a repeating pattern. London took massive amounts of resources such as coal, metals and manufactured goods from other parts of the UK which are now in poverty. The North Sea Oil boom of the 1980s, was used to prop up the London stock market, and only a fraction of that money stayed within Scotland which was suffering industrial decline at the time. (Aberdeen has surprisingly little to show for the oil boom and is now a city in heavy decline.)
BBC similarly, spends the vast majority of it's money outside London. If you were from anywhere near Manchester, Glasgow or Liverpool you'd know that perfectly well.
I'm afraid governments have actually done genuine work to try and reduce dependence on London to not very much avail. Network effects rule again, why is twitter (X) bigger and more popular than blusky or whatever?
Then a small bit of what is leached is paid back in taxes and you pretend that means the leeches are subsidising the actual workers.
There are many examples of how the UK is London-centric. This isn't one of them.
Not to mention that over ground wires are manifestly better in every dimension except for aesthetics.
This is a great example:
Because it contains all of the financial services business that screw money out of all of the real businesses in the rest of the UK.
It’d be super, smashing, great! for the cities to be far better connected together across the Pennines.
We're ~30 years into a new information/digital revolution and London is a world centre of it. There's plenty of wealth generation happening. People are welcome to sit and wait for it to come to them if they want.
The odd thing is that it makes fun of all those coal mining and oil producing areas whose wealth it has been only too happy to steal. A sort of internal colonialism.
1. Cost per kWh transmitted?
2. Cost per person served?
3. Cost per pound of GDP generated?
Please provide this for London and the other locations you have in mind.
Cool to see cycling down there - much safer than on the roads above.
In spite of devolution and the so called "levelling up" programme for other parts of the UK, London obviously continues to be heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK.
This is a farcical comment. Were you being sarcastic? The tax revenue from London massively subsidises the rest of the UK. The investment happens in London because you can guarantee it will make a return, and quickly.
London has centuries worth of investment from everywhere else based on that. That money has stayed there, and money is spent constantly on infrastructure which helps it make more money. Contrast this with Liverpool, Cardiff or Belfast which suffered decades of decline for various reasons and a fraction of the investment.
If the capital had been moved to Liverpool back at some point in the Middle Ages, then that would have remained a wealthy city instead of becoming a basket case in the eighties. The presence of the civil service and government alone would have kept Merseyside wealthy, and would have made it a huge tourist centre. Bigger than now, and even that was mostly to do with the Beatles.
By the way, the state funded Wembley refit cost more than the construction of the Scottish Parliament. Guess which one got all the negative press?
And if mass media continued to promote my area continually then the value of my home would also go up. I would get given higher wages to cope with the increased cost of living there. We would get more tourists visiting my area, and firms and non-doms would set up there because of the positive image.
Much like London.
Which is still implicitly accepting the fact that London does create more value that then goes to the rest of the UK rather than the reverse.
London is a net contributor of tax revenue to the rest of the UK, which presumably goes towards, for example, the 17 (non-London) power grid improvement projects listed at https://www.nationalgrid.com/the-great-grid-upgrade/where-it..., among other things.
The UK is often too London centric, but this project doesn't seem like evidence of it.