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Posted by bookofjoe 3 days ago

Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study(www.facs.org)
341 points | 497 commentspage 2
laughing_man 2 days ago|
>The rate of drivers who tested positive for THC did not change significantly before or after legalization (42.1% vs. 45.2%), indicating that legal status did not influence the behavior of those who chose to drive after use.

That being the case, I'm not sure what the policy prescription should be here, if any.

flaminHotSpeedo 2 days ago|
> 103 drivers (41.9%) overall tested positive for THC, with yearly rates ranging from 25.7% to 48.9%.

The statistics for this seem suspect at best, I'll believe it once it's peer reviewed

bloppe 2 days ago||
Anybody who's smoked a lot of weed knows that THC tolerance works very differently from alcohol tolerance. If you've been ripping dabs every couple hours for the last month, you might be well above the legal limit and barely feel different at all. On the other hand, if you haven't smoked in a year and take a single hit of a modern joint, you could be floored.

I'm not sure how THC intoxication could be measured, but blood THC concentration feels like an incredibly crude metric compared to BAC.

Ragnarockooo 2 days ago|
Smoking weed is terrible for you. Either drink or do psychedelics.
Youden 3 days ago||
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45494730
ck2 3 days ago||
I live in a "working poor" neighborhood

50% of the people on this street get stoned before driving to work, every single day

dope isn't even legal here and even if it was DUI is wildly illegal

We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties because we can't undo murder and injuries

How about first time warning, second time weekend in jail, third time week in jail, fourth time month in jail, fifth time year in prison

dragonwriter 3 days ago||
> We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties

Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality.

wredcoll 3 days ago|||
> Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality.

I wish I could emphasize this even more.

There are some situations where certain types of punishments in certain situations will achieve societal behavior change.

There's a lot more where it doesn't and people absolutely to apply any kind of scientific thought to it.

dragonwriter 3 days ago|||
> There are some situations where certain types of punishments in certain situations will achieve societal behavior change.

> There's a lot more where it doesn't

Or, at least, not the behavior change you are hoping for.

wredcoll 2 days ago|||
Hmm, that last sentence is really missing a "refuse to"
loeg 3 days ago||||
We have world-leading criminality rates. Given that, the only alternatives are world-leading incarceration, or just letting criminals roam around making law-abiders' lives worse.
ben_w 3 days ago|||
There's a lot of different ways to measure crime, making it hard to compare between nations.

The people who try anyway, mostly put the USA as fairly middling, nothing special either way.

dragonwriter 2 days ago||||
> We have world-leading criminality rates.

That's what happens when you use criminalization and penal slavery to replace chattel slavery.

loeg 2 days ago||
Progressive love to repeat this, but it doesn't make it true.
dragonwriter 2 days ago||
> Progressive love to repeat this, but it doesn't make it true.

Conservatives love to deny this, but it doesn't make it false. That criminalization was an immediate, direct substitute for chattel slavery is extensively documented, and that the patterns of criminalization used for that purpose became culturally entrenched and spread (even where the particular practices on top of that served to make it a replacement for chattel slavery, like convict leasing, generally did not in their original form beyond the South, though commercial exploitation of coerced prison labor did become a widespread national phenomenon, even though there has been some winding back in some jurisdictions of that particular practice in recent years.)

wredcoll 2 days ago|||
> We have world-leading criminality rates. Given that, the only alternatives are world-leading incarceration, or just letting criminals roam around making law-abiders' lives worse.

Somehow every part of this paragraph just keeps getting less correct.

America doesn't have "world-leading" criminality by literally any metric you care to choose.

Even if it did, also having world leading incarceration rates might make a rational, scientific type fellow wonder about how those could both be true!

Also, those are not in fact the only alternatives. It's not even difficult to think of more than those two. Have you even tried?

jama211 3 days ago||||
Very well said. It worries me how quick people are to leap to “we’ll just imprison people that’ll help” despite endless data that says the opposite
ck2 3 days ago|||
most people who get put in jail/prison for drugs do not get a "taste" of how horrible it is and get years right off the bat for first offense

that's why I proposed five steps starting with warning, weekend, then week in jail

if you spend a weekend in jail and don't change your behavior from doing something wildly dangerous yet absolutely not addicting, well then proceed to a year in prison

note I am not saying put people in prison simply for smoking dope, it's not legal here but there are no serious penalties if caught

I don't care what people do in their homes

You drive on the road stoned when I am riding my bike or running and put my life in danger, you definitely deserve some time to think about it behind bars

I've been "grazed" on the road many time over the years, I have no idea if people are drunk or stoned or just looking at their phones but I am okay with my five step idea for ALL of those cases, but they will never be caught anyway until they murder someone and then it's too late

fatal94 3 days ago|||
Driving towards a solution of "imprisoning more people" as punishment rather than other punishment have never succeeded. Many states already have first time drug offender and strike programs, people are already imprisoned over a weekend for things even as simple as misdemeanor possession until they can get a bail set. Rehabilitative forms of punishments such as severe fines, community service or mandatory classes and broadcasting them is much more effective in actually driving down rates of impaired drivers.

Whats more, police officers already have a wide authority of judgement when considering these factors around marijuana impairment currently. Relying on subjective evaluation from FST and physical presentation will only result in a higher rate of non impaired drivers being imprisoned.

galleywest200 3 days ago|||
WA state already has a "three strikes you are out" law (life in prison), but laws like this are racially biased and used against minorities far more.

https://www.courts.wa.gov/subsite/mjc/docs/2024/Three-strike...

Sparkle-san 3 days ago|||
Maybe we can declare our intent to eliminate drug use with harsh penalties using a metaphor, like going to war against them. That should do the trick.
walletdrainer 3 days ago|||
> How about first time warning, second time weekend in jail, third time week in jail, fourth time month in jail, fifth time year in prison

Those laws exist, and often result in people who should be receiving treatment spending years of their life in prison.

Someone who gets 5+ DUIs isn’t likely to be deterred by schemes like this

shiandow 3 days ago||
It's interesting. You begin by describing the circumstances and then conclude the problem must be fixed by changing individual behaviour.
scythe 2 days ago||
>An average level of 30.7 ng/mL generally means those people must have consumed marijuana at some time close to driving.

Averages do not work that way! The average of 48, 48, 48, 3 and 3 is 30. The study findings remain interesting but the actual proportion of impaired drivers may be less than 40%.

mchusma 3 days ago||
Self driving cars can’t come fast enough to save lives. I’d love to have states start today at cracking down on unsafe drivers of all kinds. I suspect that converting just 10% of miles to self driving + getting rid of 10% most unsafe drivers would reduce fatalities 50%.
asdff 2 days ago|
50% of fatalities are from the 8% of the driving population that refuses to wear a seatbelt.

https://www.trafficsafetymarketing.gov/safety-topics/seat-be...

ChrisMarshallNY 2 days ago||
I have a friend that's a mechanic.

He says that he gets cars in that reek so bad, he can smell them from three bays away.

I suspect that we'll soon be seeing a rapid "pullover-test," and that will probably knock that stuff down.

golem14 2 days ago||
It will be interesting to read the actual study when it comes out.

Interesting questions: * What is the baseline of consumption / THC level?

* what was the alcohol level in decesased drivers ? (e..g how many people only had alcohol, how many only THC, how many had both, how many had nothing.

* Are there other test scenarios where THC screening is mandatory that could help getting to the baseline ? Are there ways to get an approximate answer from sewers, like they did for Covid?

flaminHotSpeedo 2 days ago||
> Researchers analyzed coroner records from Montgomery County in Ohio from January 2019 to September 2024, focusing on 246 deceased drivers who were tested for THC following a fatal crash.

This paper would need to go into way more detail to be at all useful.

40% is a staggering number, which makes me suspect that all it measures is Montgomery County police's pretty good track record for deciding when to test someone for THC during an autopsy

graycat 2 days ago|
I have it on good authority and a lot of data that over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for recently having (i) breathed air containing oxygen, (ii) drank tap water (iii) were wearing shoes, (iv) had used those shoes to get to the car, ...
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