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Posted by jppope 2 days ago

Inca Stone Masonry(www.earthasweknowit.com)
166 points | 42 comments
elif 2 days ago|
This is an incredible writeup. I've visited almost all of these sites to inspect the masonry, spent weeks researching, pestered tour guides and museum workers for oral history, and still I learned things in reading this article.

However there is one aspect which I think is incomplete. When you closely inspect the seams of some of the non-layered works like sacsayhuaman, we are talking about 2mm precision along curved, inconsistent lines of two stones. The when you look at the joints up close, they make the joint between flat cinder-blocks look chunky.

The author posits that this was all hand chiseling and eyeballing, or scribe tools. However I believe there would be occasional gaps or inconsistencies, which simply aren't present in any of the pre-colonial precise works.

One thing I discovered in my research of other central American indigenous cultures (inca was a melting pot of culture and technology) was the use of rope or string, sand, and water to finely cut stones and gems. It is pulled like a circular sand paper and I believe this process would have been used, run between both stones being joined at once, in order to achieve the final tolerances through uniformly wearing the proud aspects of the joint on both sides.

helterskelter 2 days ago||
> the use of rope or string, sand, and water to finely cut stones and gems

I haven't heard this one before, that's a great idea. Here's a YouTube video of somebody doing this with jade if anybody is curious:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w_9MCNgY2Ww

RobotCaleb 1 day ago||
This is neat but I could have done without the poor diction, AI voice, and inaccessible subtitles.
ASalazarMX 22 hours ago|||
I was told that this was, because of the limited tools, very slow work. After seeing the popular twelve-angled stone at Cusco, I can believe they took all the time, and any effort, necessary. Maybe they even assembled and disassembled the stones until they were perfect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-angled_stone

undershirt 2 days ago||
[flagged]
nkrisc 1 day ago|||
Take two stones of similar roughness and rub them together for many, many hours. Eventually you'll have to flat surfaces that fit almost perfectly together. Beyond that, it's not hard to see how some skilled craftsmen with some knowledge of geometry (and lots of laborers and a royal mandate) could construct what the Inca did.

What they built is incredibly impressive, but you don't need to invoke magic woo to explain it.

WalterBright 1 day ago|||
It doesn't take many many hours. I saw a TV documentary on it, it can be done in a half hour with stones the size of a box of kleenex. The archaeologist would also add sand in between the two surfaces to speed it up.
begueradj 1 day ago|||
How will you do that to stones of granite, quartz or stishovite ? Several authors and experts of all kind say what you said and what the article states are completely unfeasible.
jamiek88 2 days ago|||
“ spiritual access to directed free-energy at the magnetic equator for dustifying/liquifying”

What? These words are English yet carry no meaning to me. Ancient people had clever engineers, just like us. Fuck all to do with magnetic spirituality whatever the fuck that is.

Every time there’s a thread about ancient engineering someone insists on this woo or different woo involving aliens.

Fucking tired of the arrogance and sheer dismissal of ancient people’s achievements.

Free energy at the magnetic equator. Fucks sake.

undershirt 1 day ago|||
sorry, I was tempted to draw a connection between the coincidence of dustified steel recorded during a magnetic disturbance and the locations of megalithic sites, but I’m not committed to their connection. I find it fun to hypothesize but I don’t want to dismiss their achievements.
bondarchuk 1 day ago|||
don't feed the trolls
metalman 2 days ago||
Exceptionaly well documented and written article detailing the well known techniques used to build the iconic stone work in south america. I read an earlier account of a researcher who started investigating pre spanish south american quaries, and how there sudden realisation, while sitting down for lunch, that the round stone to there right, was the hammer used to shape the larger stone to there left and the rows of peck marks ending in raw stone, all of those centuries before. Having worked a bit of stone myself, learning to shape, temper stone drills, and test them for utility, it is very easy to understand how basic pragmatism and persistance, in stone, yields large structures that retain that essential message of we are not messing around in this effort, and your opinions can only embellish this. When considering stone articacts of any scale, it is always best to keep in mind that lithic technology pre dates our "species", and our evolutionary track is directly parallel with it, and there is quite litteraly, mountains of evidence for this.And should you so wish, any modest effort to go look, dig, search the ground, known hunting areas or settlement zones, will yield physical evidence that anyone can examine. our development of technology
regularfry 2 days ago||
I've often come across a concept in magic performance that what the performer is aiming at is for the only available explanation for what you see would take an amount of effort that you immediately discount because clearly nobody would put that much effort into making a ping pong ball disappear. There are two ways to make the ping pong ball disappear: either the performer is cheating somehow, or they did actually do it the obvious way and yes, they did put all that effort in.

This seems the same: the idea the people shaped these stones by hand seems so outrageously profligate with human exertion that you look for how they cheated. But the answer is that it's actually slightly less exertion than you think, multiplied across far more humans than you think, but yes, they did go the long way round.

gwern 1 day ago||
Penn & Teller formulation: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/teller-reveals-h...
gus_massa 2 days ago||
> Having worked a bit of stone myself,

Just curious. Do you have some photos?

djoldman 2 days ago||
This is especially timely as I recently listened to the fall of civilizations podcast on the Incas.

A key answer to an ongoing question I didn't know I had is that only the faces of the stones in the walls are joined precisely. The backs have tapers that are filled in.

anon84873628 1 day ago||
I recently came across some geopolymer / alkali activated material stuff on YouTube. Fascinating technology - you can in fact print a house or cast "liquid stone" into ceramic. Seems like companies are using it for expanding foam insulation now too.

The "natron hypothesis" seems to make more sense in Egypt where: Natron and granite powder are just laying around, the blocks are all regular rectangular shape, there are murals that seem to describe the process, and they have large high quality artifacts made from diorite which is the hardest thing around.

Of course that doesn't mean it was used everywhere in the ancient world, and this article does a great job discounting it for the Inca.

I'd love to know if there is some detailed microscopy and chemical analysis underway to see if geopolymer use can be proven in Egypt.

thechao 1 day ago||
We recently visited Peru — Machu Picchu for a week, then Tambopata (the Amazon) for a week. The Amazonians are still proud of the quality of the stone hammers they find and sell to the highlanders; apparently, there's still "old school" stone masons that insist on using "good" Amazonian hammer rocks.
interloxia 2 days ago||
Mike Haduck has a short series (and a bunch of others too)

MACHU PICCHU "A stone masons commentary" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njCStq0Hn58

Isamu 1 day ago||
A great article that starts by not discounting the written accounts that are available.

I am reminded that the Maya language decipherment really moved forward once the written account by Diego De Landa was taken seriously.

srean 2 days ago||
Thanks for sharing the marvellous article, is all I can say.
drob518 1 day ago||
Not gonna lie. I was really hoping for advanced alien technology as the foundation for Inca building techniques.
codeduck 2 days ago|
This was a fascinating read; thank you!
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