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Posted by walterbell 12/21/2025

The gift card accountability sink(www.bitsaboutmoney.com)
132 points | 110 commentspage 2
citizenpaul 12/21/2025|
Gift cards are one of the dumbest most brain-dead pieces of scam ever invented. With all kinds of restrictions that resemble "scrip" type payment systems. They only exist to increase a larger entities control over you.

Why take perfectly good cash and change it to something worse in every way? I cannot understand why so many people enthusiastically go out of their way to buy gift cards. Can you take my cash and convert it to something with the same function but with all kinds of restrictions and gotcha's? Sure no problem....

bigfishrunning 12/22/2025||
One use for them is to obfuscate my banking information. A few years ago, Sony leaked a ton of Playstation customer information. Since then, if I want to buy games from them, i buy a gift card from someone else, and then use the gift card. It adds a layer of indirection.
devilbunny 12/24/2025||
Also for mental convenience. I use Spotify Premium. I don't want a recurring subscription charge that I would have to remember to cancel. So I go buy a year's Premium gift card (with a small discount on the monthly rate by doing so). If it runs out, I just get put back on the free tier with ads and no direct song picking until I get another gift card. They can't charge me in perpetuity, and if I ever stop using it enough for keeping it to be worthwhile it effectively cancels itself.
citizenpaul 12/24/2025||
I see your point and it is good but a bit single purpose. I separate my whole finance life into incoming/outgoing accounts for this purpose. Essentially like a business. This prevents anyone including my own bank from taking my money. My incoming is a separate bank that I transfer from to my payment accounts.
Nasrudith 12/22/2025|||
Paranoia of the war on drugs is part of it as well. Some are afraid that kids with large sums of cash would spend it on drugs or alcohol and it is more difficult to barter giftcards for drugs.

Not a good reason but it is a real one I have heard.

viraptor 12/23/2025||
I can get gift cards for my groceries and fuel with a permanent 4% discount. I'm going to spend the whole amount there anyway - what wouldn't I use that path every time?
zimpenfish 12/22/2025||
> It surprises many people to learn that the United States aggressively defends customers from fraud over some payment methods

I feel like that needs a "(currently but not for much longer)" caveat[0] to avoid being wildly disingenuous.

[0] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/11/trump-administratio... - "the CFPB [...] anticipates exhausting its currently available funds in early 2026.”

stevage 12/21/2025||
> . Paysafe, for example, is a publicly traded company with thousands of employees, the constellation of regulatory supervision you’d expect, and a subsidiary Openbucks which is designed to give businesses the ability to embed Pay Us With A Cash Voucher in their websites/invoices/telephone collection workflows.

Fascinating footnote.

cortesoft 12/22/2025|
I thought so as well. It also confuses me the more I think about it… it seems like they have all of the things a normal bank has, so why isn’t it just a bank? What is preventing them from just offering a bank account to people who are traditionally unbanked?
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 12/21/2025||
> very likely made it impossible for anyone at BigCo to reconstruct what happened to a particular gift card between checkout and most recent use.

Could I improve my own privacy posture by just buying myself gift cards, if I can't use cash? Or that's just pushing all the data that the store would get onto the gift card company?

kelnos 12/22/2025||
Oof. Of course Patrick is right that paying by gift card isn't always a scam, but I think less-technically-savvy people are better off just believing that it is. And hell, as a technically-savvy person, I will just believe that it is as well, because it's less effort to do so, and won't hurt me to believe that. If someone wants you to pay for something by gift card, find the same or a similar product somewhere else, where they'll take credit/debit cards, checks, cash, whatever is actually legal tender and is appropriate for the situation.

But from Patrick's description, it feels like the situations where it's (usually) not a scam are instances where paying by gift card is an option, not something the "seller" is pushing you hard to do, or even requiring you to do. That seems... okay? I personally would still pay with a credit card, but mayyyybe it's ok for someone who can't get a credit card to go the gift card route. But I would still be wary.

If you're dealing with an unbanked business that cannot take credit/debit cards or checks due to the legal climate around their business or product, then you probably already know what you're getting yourself into. (But still, bit of a red flag if they don't accept cash or even cryptocurrencies, as much as I find those scammy as well.)

> The people of the United States, through their elected representatives and the civil servants who labor on their behalf, intentionally exempt gift cards from the Reg E regime in the interest of facilitating commerce.

This sort of phrasing about things kinda annoys me. Yes, "through their elected representatives...", technically true, but "the people of the United States", no, not really so much. I'm sure most people don't even know about these sorts of differences, and I'm sure the majority of people who are in favor of these sorts of protections on credit/debit cards would want them to apply to gift cards as well.

The problem with this sort of phrasing implies that the American people actively chose this, or even had any choice in the matter. We are limited in the political options that are put before us; we don't get a big menu of policy positions, check off the ones we like, and then a politician appears that matches all our preferences. Some people might -- very reasonably! -- prioritize other policy positions over gift card protection regulation, even if they want the latter as well.

LorenPechtel 12/23/2025|
It comes down to who initiates it.

I've got some gift cards sitting here--her health insurance has rewards for doing certain things, there's no way to get them as cash but you can buy gift cards for certain stores. Nothing scammy about it but I'm annoyed Amazon isn't an option because simply dumping them into my Amazon account would be the easiest solution.

devilbunny 12/24/2025||
Those coin-counting machines in grocery stores used to offer Amazon gift cards with no fee on their end (vs almost 10% if you wanted cash). Alas, they quit. I could clear my house of coins and ge $60-70 of credit that I would end up using on something anyway. A Walmart gift card would be similar in effect.
LorenPechtel 12/24/2025||
Yup, did that once some time ago. Home Depot, though, which was across the street and I was heading there anyway.
devinprater 12/22/2025||
A ton of studies colleges/universities/corporations do on blind people give gift cards as payment. Usually $20 or so for a good 40 minutes of time.
VikingCoder 12/22/2025||
Just out of curiosity, what happens when you buy a gift card for Toys R Us or Red Lobster or K-Mart, and then the company goes out of business?
CamelCaseName 12/22/2025|
A date is given and then after that, the gift cards are worthless.
analogpixel 12/21/2025||
> The American Association of Retired People (AARP, an advocacy non-profit for older adults) has paid for ads on podcasts I listen to. The ad made a claim which felt raspberry-worthy (in service of an important public service announcement), which they repeat in writing: Asking to be paid by gift card is always a scam.

>Of course it isn’t. Gift cards are a payments rail, and an enormous business independently of being a payments rail. Hundreds of firms will indeed ask you to pay them on gift cards!

That’s where I stopped reading. The author seems more interested in being contrarian for clicks than in giving practical advice. AARP is right here: being asked to pay by gift card is a major red flag, and unless you know the company personally, it’s time to walk away.

pjc50 12/21/2025||
Patrick very carefully declined to give examples of such legitimate yet debanked businesses. Presumably because they're all grey market stuff that sets off a whole other "wait, is that legal?" conversation.

I have never seen a legitimate business asking for payment in gift cards. I've encountered the traditional tradesmen offering discounts for cash, though.

Edit: I think he may actually be talking about businesses accepting payments in their own gift cards, which is so obvious that it's easy to forget. It's not a scam when Apple ask you to pay in Apple gift cards. It's just the only non scam such case.

masfuerte 12/21/2025|||
Apple don't ask you to pay in Apple gift cards. They give you the option, but they are perfectly happy with a credit card.
nlawalker 12/22/2025||||
If “Apple” asks you to pay with Apple gift cards, they’re not Apple, and it is most definitely a scam.
mindslight 12/22/2025||||
I've used 3rd party retail gift cards to pay for consumer VPN service, which is only "grey market" because privacy is often criminalized. But I still 100% agree with what the AARP is saying. This is one of those things that sure, there is technically an exception, but by the time you get to the level of knowing enough to know when that exception applies, you end up agreeing with the common advice.
devilbunny 12/24/2025||
Me: "Don't do this."

Them: "But you did it right there."

Me: "And when you know enough about the subject to know why that's a valid exception to the rule, you'll be savvy enough to break the rule. Until then, don't." Chesterton's fence and all.

cortesoft 12/22/2025|||
I don’t think he is talking about businesses that accept payment in other gift cards… he has a footnote explaining the type of business he is talking about.
turtletontine 12/21/2025|||
I’m the kind of nerd who enjoys the surprising nitty gritty details, so I enjoyed the rest of the article and I’d recommend people read it.

But I agree with you: the AARP is 100% right to be running PSAs like this. I’d be curious to hear more about how a shadow economy like this would/would not help unbanked people, which he implies but did not describe at all. But it certainly doesn’t change the point that gift cards are an effective vehicle for fraud, and anytime someone asks to pay you (or especially you to pay them) in gift cards… your scam senses should tingle.

aschla 12/21/2025|||
Agreed. It's more practical to tell seniors that all gift card requests are scams rather than teaching them to identify warning signs, since legitimate gift card payments are so rare.
scrollaway 12/21/2025|||
The world is full of people who, like you, seek any reason to not listen or read interesting things in favour of doing just about anything else. You don’t win a prize for being part of that group — at best, you saved as much time as it took you to write that comment. In exchange you are likely poorer for it intellectually because Patrick’s writing has an exceptionally high signal to noise ratio, and that signal is one most are not privy to.

At no point did the article claim AARP was in the wrong for running those ads. But had you kept reading you’d maybe have understood that wasn’t the point nor the premise in the first place.

analogpixel 12/22/2025||
I'm ok with you being superior to me in every way possible; I think I can live with that.
scrollaway 12/22/2025||
In case it wasn't clear: I don't care what you do, I care that other people don't miss out on a good article because you flaunt your anti-intellectualism on HN.
WorkerBee28474 12/21/2025|||
The author is an expert in the field of payments. What you call "being contrarian" is better called "speaking the truth".
jawns 12/21/2025|||
I would call it "splitting hairs," which experts tend to do.

The practical reality is acknowledged at the end of the post.

Even if, technically speaking, using gift cards as a payments instrument is not a scam 100% of the time, anyone but a non-expert should behave as if it's 100%.

salawat 12/21/2025||||
I am also an expert in the field of payments. The only thing that makes gift cards stand out from other transaction media is there are many fewer guardrails around them money movement wise.

I'd pretty much back up AARP on this one. Asking for payment by gift card should in the majority of cases put one on guard.

jdlshore 12/21/2025||
The article wasn’t about the AARP. That was just the hook. The article is about what you just said: there are many fewer guardrails, and why.
burnto 12/21/2025||||
Author works in payments industry which issues and accepts gift cards, benefits from the lack of consumer protections, and incidentally doesn’t make any revenue on cash payments.
analogpixel 12/21/2025|||
Is he an expert in the field of old people being scammed out of lots of money? Telling non tech-savvy people that it's ok to listen to the nice man on the phone and send him a lot of gift cards?
WorkerBee28474 12/21/2025||
Who do you think the article's readers are? Random people? No, it's explicitly for people who are interested in both tech and finance.
burnto 12/21/2025||
Yes the whole essay was premised on this dumb little sleight of hand. It’s disingenuous.

AARP isn’t telling fibs. It’s giving sound advice.

The only legit use of a gift card is when you’re redeeming that gift card directly with the issuer. No business is going to request or require that you do that.

nacozarina 12/21/2025||
gift cards are one of those odd legal things with contraband-grade hazards, not worth it, I abstain
silexia 12/22/2025|
America needs a Great Firewall for border security. Almost all scams and spam originate outside our country, and are out of the reach of our law enforcement.

We don't let terrorists and robbers wander in, why do allow the digital equivalent?