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Posted by chaps 12/22/2025

Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves(www.404media.co)
Archive Link: https://archive.ph/IWMKe

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU1-uiUlHTo – This Flock Camera Leak is like Netflix For Stalkers

827 points | 471 commentspage 4
SamInTheShell 12/22/2025|
It's 2025. The ISP gateway I got comes with more default security than these cameras. The barrier to entry on security is lower than it ever has been in history. Whoever let this past the QC phase is an idiot.
embedding-shape 12/22/2025||
> Whoever let this past the QC phase is an idiot.

It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sure to some executive somewhere, the person/s who approved all of this is seen as heroes, as they shaved of 0.7% or whatever from the costs of the development, and therefore made shareholders more money.

Until there are laws in place that makes people actually responsible for creating these situations, it'll continue, as for a company, profits goes above all.

jandrese 12/22/2025|||
It probably makes close to no difference in development or production, but it does significantly cut down on the number of tech support calls from people who can't figure out how to set the password, or immediately forget the password they set. If it has no password then you can just plug it in an have it work. Sure it's totally insecure, but its also trivial to install.
embedding-shape 12/22/2025||
Generating a password that is unique to the device and print it with a sticky label on the underside of the device isn't exactly rocket-science, and ISPs somehow figured this out at least two decades ago, which was the first time I came across that myself. Surely whoever developed this IP-camera has an engineering department who've also seen something like this in the wild before?
jandrese 12/22/2025||
Yep, but if you do that you need to staff a help line with people who can say "turn the box over and look at the sticker, no the sticker with the numbers on it, it's white with black letters and says PASSWORD in a big font, no the password isn't literally PASSWORD, it's the line below that with the strange letters, yes, to type that one you need to hold the shift key and press 3..."

Remember that ISPs often have people who come to your home to hook stuff up.

embedding-shape 12/22/2025||
Yes, which costs money, which is exactly my original point. It's not because "Oh I'm so hassled because customers are dumb", it's "No, hiring people to do support would cost us money, which we don't want".

> Remember that ISPs often have people who come to your home to hook stuff up.

I can't recall a single time a technician wasn't required to come to my flat/house to install a new router. I'm based in Spain, maybe it's different elsewhere, but I think it's pretty much a requirement, you can't setup the WAN endpoint or ISP router yourself.

jandrese 12/22/2025||
Last time I moved I opted for the "self install" kit, which was fine because I'm technical and the previous owners already had the service so there was nothing that needed to be done except hooking up the pre-configured modem. Saved me $200 in truck roll fees.
embedding-shape 12/22/2025||
Interesting stuff, I've asked if I could do the installation myself every single time I've moved to a new place, and never has the ISP (three different ones) said yes. There isn't any installation fee place(probably by law?) so that isn't an issue here, just a hassle to coordinate having to meet between 12:00 and 18:00 or some super wide range of time for them to come and install it.
ewoodrich 12/22/2025||
In the US for the past 5+ years Xfinity/Comcast, Charter, and whatever CenturyLink is called these days have all heavily pushed the "self-install kit" option vs traditional tech install each time I've moved.

Worked 4/5 times (all with cable), only time it failed was because I had apparently subscribed to a DSL plan from CenturyLink without realizing and they needed to wire up the extra lines upstream for the "modern" version of DSL to work in my apartment. After insisting multiple times that the self-install kit was 100% plug-n-play at my new address despite my intense skepticism since I really needed reliable internet from Day 1 during COVID remote work.

I was seriously missing Comcast/cable by the time that 1 yr contract was up, the devil you know and all...

braingravy 12/22/2025||||
Yep. Until we start holding decision makers responsible for the consequences of their decisions, they will always choose the selfish option.
SamInTheShell 12/22/2025|||
So you're trying to justify this type of rampant negligence in tech? Do you think justifying such malfeasance makes up for fact we literally have surveillance networks that bad actors can tap to do really awful things?

Anyone that cares about their perspective has missed the point.

MSFT_Edging 12/22/2025|||
I don't think the person you're replying to is justifying it, but saying there's no laws to prevent the abuse.

Personally I think tech CEOs should be put in stocks in the town square on the regular but they're protected from any form of repercussions besides extreme cases of fraud. Even then, they're only held accountable when the money people have their money effected, not when normal people are bulldozed by the abuse.

SamInTheShell 12/22/2025||
If I was 10 years younger, I might agree that they aren't justifying it, but I have enough experience with passive speech to just not let it pass anymore.

Regarding remedy, we really need laws on this stuff yesterday. The problem is that we have to gut first amendment freedoms for some of this stuff, which wont go anywhere because there will always be too much overreach with today's representatives.

yunwal 12/22/2025||
You should probably read the comment you're replying to before replying

> Until there are laws in place that makes people actually responsible for creating these situations, it'll continue, as for a company, profits goes above all.

They obviously meant that we ought to be holding these people responsible.

SamInTheShell 12/22/2025||
> You should probably read the comment you're replying to before replying

Congrats you spotted the thing we agreed on between comments. If you fail to see the agreement through parity of the part that was echoed, idk what to tell you. Education system is failing everyone in it these days.

yunwal 12/22/2025||
> If I was 10 years younger, I might agree that they aren't justifying it

You maybe need to read your own comments then? Idk man, they clearly aren't justifying anything, they're being critical and you're just spouting off about the education system

embedding-shape 12/22/2025||||
> So you're trying to justify this type of rampant negligence in tech?

Don't know how you reached that conclusion, I obviously isn't trying to justify anything. But maybe something I said was unclear? What exactly gave you the idea I'm trying to justify anything of this?

SamInTheShell 12/22/2025||
Nothing against you personally, just so you know. But I have to point out that anyone caring about the reason for the short coming of flock on stuff like this are just crafting soft reasons they can use to justify things later. Being up front here I care not for their reason because the entire business model is frankly disgusting and an affront to a functioning society. This is the type of tech that evolves into social credit scores and precog crime units, stoping crime before it happens.

At the end of the day your rationalization only affords comfort to those that have a vested interest in this stuff being successful and it needs to be clear to those people driving this that they’re not doing something popular or even good.

hrimfaxi 12/22/2025||||
An explanation is not a justification.
eptcyka 12/22/2025|||
Why stick your neck out, swim upstream to do a good job that will not be recognised as such?

Fix the corporate incentives and engineers will be able to do the right thing without suffering. Not everyone gets the luxury of a secure career doing morally ok things.

TheRealPomax 12/22/2025||
Counterpoint: whoever let this past the QC phase got paid very generously, and everyone involved is ignoring the laws that already exist to combat this, because law enforcement, too, gets paid generously. And the laws that forbid that aren't getting enforced because the police doesn't police the police, and dad has made it perfectly clear that flagrantly ignoring the law is fine if you're in power.
salawat 12/22/2025||
What makes you think QA/QC is paid handsomely? It's a bloody cost center mate, and you can't measure "damage prevented" consistently, or at least in a way most high-risk tolerating exec types won't immediately undermine.

t. Former QA veteran

btbuildem 12/22/2025||
glock > flock

Is mass vandalism the final answer to this problem?

eddyg 12/22/2025||
Yes, they should be secured so they can only be accessed by law enforcement.

But if your spouse/SO/sister/mother/girlfriend/whatever was assaulted while jogging in a park that had Flock cameras, and it allowed law enforcement to quickly identify, track, apprehend and charge the criminal, you'd absolutely be grateful for the technology. There's nothing worse than being told "we don't have any leads" when someone you care about has been attacked.

542354234235 12/22/2025||
Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t want laws to be written to the level of my emotional individual reaction to a singular crime. I want laws to reflect the ideals and values of society, and to work at scale when balancing individual freedom, societal safety, and protection from government abuse.

“It is better, so the Fourth Amendment teaches us, that the guilty sometimes go free than the citizens be subject to easy arrest.” - Former Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

gs17 12/22/2025|||
They should also require a warrant at least, especially for any data sharing. With "they can only be accessed by law enforcement", we've already had plenty of police harassing their exes. If they couldn't convince a judge to let them use the camera, there's really no hope of the case going anywhere.

> There's nothing worse than being told "we don't have any leads" when someone you care about is attacked.

I'd argue worse is "we know exactly who did it and we're not going to do anything about it (but we would do something if you try to do something about it yourself)".

estimator7292 12/22/2025|||
What about when ICE uses this data to abduct and deport your spouse and family members? Will you be grateful then?
kernal 12/22/2025||
[flagged]
Cornbilly 12/23/2025||
Are you grateful for all of the legal immigrants and citizens that ICE has swept off the streets?
dexwiz 12/22/2025|||
Until your spouse/SO/sister/mother/girlfriend spurns a LEO, and then the LEO uses it to stalk and harass them. Talk to any LEO, they constantly misuse their data access to look up friends/family/neighbors to find dirt. Most of the time its relatively harmless gossip, but it can easily be used to harass people.
thedougd 12/22/2025|||
I'll make up another one to pile on. Perhaps the police would have had a visible, deterrent presence if they weren't lazily relying on cameras, and that would have prevented the assault in the first place.

Anyhow, if you read the flock database, they're overwhelmingly not using them for the purposes of public safety or random crime.

JKCalhoun 12/22/2025||
"…they're overwhelmingly not using them for the purposes of public safety or random crime."

That would seem to be very relevant information.

array_key_first 12/23/2025|||
If your argument has to start with "now, imagine your sister was raped", then it's probably just a bad argument.

Appealing to emotions, tsk tsk, but going right for the jugular? Yikes.

Also, elephant in the room: if your sister was going to be raped or beaten, it would probably be by someone in her home, in her family. Like her cop husband.

kelnos 12/22/2025|||
Ah yes, the good ol' appeal to fear. "Think of the childr--err, I mean poor defenseless woman!"

No, I don't want these cameras. I don't care if they make law enforcement's job easier. They are an invasion of privacy and a part of the disgusting dragnet surveillance state.

They need to go.

A decade ago, I was attacked on a public sidewalk by three men, who roughed me up a bit and stole from me. The police were utterly unhelpful, and as far as I know, they never caught anyone. But ultimately, that didn't really matter. I was traumatized for a while, but eventually worked through it. Whether or not they were caught would not have changed any part of that process.

I get that, emotionally, we want some sort of justice when things like this happen, but I am not willing to put up with even more constant surveillance in order to feel a little bit better about a bad thing that happened to me. I would much rather criminals sometimes went free.

SunshineTheCat 12/22/2025||
Yea I've never been a fan of the whole "makes law enforcement's job easier" arguments.

As though personal rights/liberties are trumped by a cop needing to do paperwork or leave his desk.

Plus, when you follow this to its natural/extreme conclusion, the absolute easiest thing for law enforcement would be to arrest you for no reason at all.

The rationalization for this policy of course could simply be that probable cause is "inconvenient."

fzeroracer 12/22/2025|||
What if your spouse/SO/whatever was wrongfully arrested because they were on a Flock camera and conveniently matched what the police were looking for? Or if they ran whatever dogshit AI algorithm over it looking for suspects?

We can make up situations all day where it can or can not be validated but the reality is that this is a defacto surveillance state. If every move you make can be monitored, you should assume that the state can and will abuse it to hurt innocent people in the name of politics or whatever.

gs17 12/22/2025||
Or if they were simply being harassed because their ex was a cop who decided to use the cameras to stalk them, where there's not even an excuse.
tediousgraffit1 12/22/2025|||
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
kgwxd 12/22/2025|||
What's the point of making a statement like that? Is it like a Snapple cap thing, or do you expect people to actually give up on talking about the blatant government overreach?

And what a dumb way to frame it. "Think of the woman" is the same argument as "think of the children". Why not just say if you were attacked you'd want it to be on camera? Afraid it'll make you sound weak? Well, so does bootlicking.

LeFantome 12/22/2025||
This is true of course. You could also apply this logic to even the most extreme of fascist tendencies though.

There is freedom to and freedom from as they say in The Handmaid’s Tale.

GaryBluto 12/22/2025||
I'm not sure if it's better or worse to have it publicly accessible or only accessible to an elite group.
bromuk 12/22/2025||
Really great investigation, what's the URL of the "vibe coded" site with the access links?
sneak 12/22/2025||
We really should be referring to them as “Flock (YC S17)”. Credit where credit is due.
stackedinserter 12/22/2025||
Easy solution for Flock problem: get rid of visible license plates. Make them 2x1" of size and RFID-readable, give readers to police, problem solved.

Not-that-easy solution is legal ban for such surveillance.

None of these both will happen though.

You accepted TSA and PRISM, you will get used to Flock too.

Next is Flock but for people, with face recognition.

DetectDefect 12/23/2025||
Flock works without license plates. Also, what do you mean "next"?

> if the object class of the identified object is that of a human being, then the object detection module 154 may further analyze the image 501 using a neural network module 507B configured to identify different classes of people (male, female, race, etc.)

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11416545B1

phyzome 12/22/2025||
Fantastic, now I can't report a hit-and-run.
stackedinserter 12/22/2025||
You never have, anyways.
phyzome 12/23/2025||
What kind of silly comment is this? In fact I have, and they found the person responsible.
stackedinserter 12/23/2025||
Why not obligate people to wear license plate on their clothes then? It will help identify and found persons responsible, right?

Don't complain when it eventually happens.

jrochkind1 12/23/2025||
> I think the one that affected me most was as playground. You could see unattended kids, and that’s something I want people to know about so they can understand how dangerous this is

So... you could also just walk or drive by the playground to see "unattended kids"?

prophesi 12/23/2025|
Ironically, these cameras are marketed to help catch predators walking/driving by playgrounds. What's concerning here is that they're connected to the internet and can be viewed remotely, which said predators would use to know when and where to strike off-camera.
givemeethekeys 12/22/2025||
At what point does the top brass at Flock get arrested?
gruez 12/22/2025||
For what? Under current jurisprudence collecting license plates images isn't illegal, because there's no expectation of privacy in public. They could post the information online if they wanted to and they'd be in the clear. It's fine to object to ANPR networks on the basis of "mass surveillance" or whatever, but screaming for people to be arrested without legal basis, just because you don't like what they're doing is childish and counterproductive to the conversation.
array_key_first 12/22/2025|||
I mean, stalking is very clearly illegal.

The main issue is that we have a different set of laws that govern businesses and that govern private citizens.

If I set up a camera in a local park and programmed it to zoom into children's faces and stream it directly to my computer, I am surely going to jail.

But if I set up 100 cameras to do just that, baby, that's just business.

It's almost paradoxical. The more evil I do, the less illegal it becomes. The greater the scale of harm I inflict, the more palatable it is. It's a get out of jail free card.

Are you a psychopath? Love to kill people? Well, don't use knives or guns silly! Instead, form an LLC and give people poison. You'll kill 100x more people with 100x less consequences!

gruez 12/22/2025|||
>If I set up a camera in a local park and programmed it to zoom into children's faces and stream it directly to my computer, I am surely going to jail.

[citation needed]

You might be called a creep, and you might be asked to remove the camera (because you can't leave random cameras on public property without permission), but operating cameras in public and recording stuff isn't illegal. Paparazzis do that all the time.

array_key_first 12/23/2025||
No, actually, how you do it matters.

If I use that information to track someone and watch them specifically, that is stalking and is illegal. I know it's illegal here in Texas.

The law is not an algorithm, it's very complex. Recording people in public is absolutely illegal in many instances.

charcircuit 12/22/2025|||
Stalking is not illegal at all.
array_key_first 12/23/2025||
Stalking is very illegal in most US jurisdictions.
charcircuit 12/23/2025||
Maybe if you are threatening someone. But if you are just following someone in public, that is okay.
wyre 12/23/2025||
Stalking is not "just following someone".

From Stalking Prevention, Awareness, & Resource Center (SPARC): " A pattern of behavior directed at a specific person that would cause a reasonable person to fear for the person’s safety or the safety of others; or suffer substantial emotional distress."

https://www.stalkingawareness.org/definition-faqs/

givemeethekeys 12/22/2025|||
[flagged]
gruez 12/22/2025||
You're probably being facetious, but aiding criminals isn't illegal unless you're knowingly doing it. Signal is known to be used by criminals, and on top their app is specifically designed to frustrate law enforcement, yet they stayed clear of lawsuits.
givemeethekeys 12/22/2025||
Not the same at all because Signal helps celebrities and very important public figures communicate securely and privately.

Flock is helping the rapists stalk their ex-wives.

gruez 12/22/2025||
"Not the same at all because Flock helps companies and public safety agencies detect and monitor crime.

Signal is helping cartels organize hits."

givemeethekeys 12/22/2025||
Everyone uses Signal to communicate privately.

Criminals use Flock to stalk public figures, celebrities, women and children.

reactordev 12/22/2025|||
Oh they’re buddies with all the departments. Fat chance.
therobots927 12/22/2025|||
They won’t under this administration. It’s owned and operated by Surveillance Valley Vulture Capitalists
tonymet 12/22/2025||
Why do people avoid saying President Trump like he’s Voldemort?
therobots927 12/22/2025||
Because he attained his current position by ragebaiting everyone. He’s just a puppet of the people who are really in charge (intelligence agencies and billionaires)
tonymet 12/23/2025||
I appreciate the explanation.
SamInTheShell 12/22/2025|||
Rather just see them get Flocked honestly. Seems like the type of tech a child would dream up only to realize when it's too late that it's dystopian, creepy, and a detriment to society.
zrobotics 12/22/2025||
Building the torment nexus...
fuckflock 12/22/2025|||
By top brass do you mean the people behind this website?

> The financing was led by Andreessen Horowitz, with backing from Greenoaks Capital, Bedrock Capital. Meritech Capital, Matrix Partners, Sands Capital, Founders Fund, Kleiner Perkins, Tiger Global, and Y Combinator also participated.

https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-secures-major-...

cons0le 12/22/2025|||
In your dreams maybe
mvkel 12/22/2025||
Should we also arrest computer co execs because computers are used to hack into things?
givemeethekeys 12/24/2025||
Let's say a computer maker created a computer specifically for hacking. They then advertised that computer to government agencies to let them hack into suspicious computers. They did not put any safeguards in place to prevent anyone from hacking anyone else, but their marketing outreach said kept insisting that they have "best in class security" and "only the appropriate agencies have access".

If that happened, then yes, they should be arrested.

ChrisArchitect 12/22/2025|
Associated Benn Jordan video post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU1-uiUlHTo
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