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Posted by mooreds 17 hours ago

Jimmy Lai Is a Martyr for Freedom(reason.com)
349 points | 189 commentspage 2
imwillofficial 17 hours ago|
[flagged]
thenthenthen 17 hours ago|
Context? RFA?
maxglute 16 hours ago||
[flagged]
YC34987349872 16 hours ago||
Reminds me of the recent Nobel "Peace" Prize winner, Corina Machado, who begged America and Israel to bomb her own country (Venezuela). If these people are supposed to be our heroes then I'll go with the villians.
paganel 13 hours ago||
It's a good thing that the anti-comprador discourse has find its way on this forum, too, out here in Eastern Europe they (the compradors, that is) occupy almost all positions of power, it's really tiring.

Back to the article, it only took me one click to find this info about its author [1]:

> Prior to his career in journalism, Binion worked as a contractor at NATO,

They're not even trying to hide it anymore, like in the good old days of the Paris Review.

[1] https://reason.com/people/billy-binion/

pessimizer 15 hours ago||
Leave it to Reason to pick out a billionaire as a martyr. Normally when I hear about free speech heroes, they've said something. Apparently, what Jimmy Lai stands against is the extension of China's "illiberalism" to Hong Kong.

What exactly is that supposed to be describing, and what is he against? If all he's against is the financial setup that allowed him to become as rich as he did, and the fact that he would have to deal with new masters as Hong Kong's colonial period was ended, why the hell should I care? What does Jimmy Lai stand for that China stands against that I should care about?

"Illiberalism."

Meanwhile, the EU just unpersoned a Swiss citizen, a writer, Jacques Baud*, for not taking the European side in the US-Russia conflict. Not for lying about it, but simply for not taking the European side. Not that Reason would support that, either, but China doesn't have any monopoly on "illiberalism," and illiberalism in the control of speech is far more important to me than the oppression of billionaires.

Lai's just getting Khodorkovsky'd: some of the rich think they're beyond government, when they operate purely through the blessing of and coddling by governments. You would think you would know that when all you do is accumulate and trade government promises in the form of currency, but the amount of praise you get as a disturbingly rich person must destroy brain function to some extent. There has got to be some atrophy in your sense of cause and effect and a distortion of your place in the world when you're on top in every room.

-----

* https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=OJ:...

> Jacques Baud, a former Swiss army colonel and strategic analyst, is a regular guest on pro-Russian television and radio programmes. He acts as a mouthpiece for pro-Russian propaganda and makes conspiracy theories, for example accusing Ukraine of orchestrating its own invasion in order to join NATO.

> Therefore, Jacques Baud is responsible for, implementing or supporting actions or policies attributable to the Government of the Russian Federation which undermine or threaten stability or security in a third country (Ukraine) by engaging in the use of information manipulation and interference.

mopsi 13 hours ago|

  > Meanwhile, the EU just unpersoned a Swiss citizen, a writer, Jacques Baud*, for not taking the European side in the US-Russia conflict. Not for lying about it, but simply for not taking the European side.
He was not "unpersoned", whatever that means, but sanctioned for being a professional Kremlin troll and for spreading lies such as claiming that the Bucha massacre was committed by British and Ukrainian secret services, that the war actually started a week earlier with a Ukrainian offensive that the entire world has suppressed, and so on. This is not even a matter of viewpoint, but a malicious flood of obvious lies.[1] Such superspreaders of lies are exactly the kind of people who should be sanctioned.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood

GuinansEyebrows 14 hours ago||
a capitalist is a martyr for capitalism when they knowingly break laws in the country they live in? i'm no fan of authoritarianism but come on. this article is such typical Reason dreck.
zdragnar 14 hours ago|
He's not being imprisoned for being a capitalist, engaging in capitalism, or anything of the like. This is a pretty lame take.
10xDev 16 hours ago||
>The dissident was convicted in Hong Kong earlier this week of two counts of conspiring to collude with foreign forces

>he also met with then–Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo; at trial, Lai testified that he had asked them to voice their support for Hong Kong.

Yeah, I don't think that's going to help convince anyone buddy.

10xDev 16 hours ago|
Imagine if Jensen Huang started meeting Xi Jinping.
axus 16 hours ago|||
Nothing would happen to Mr. Huang, he's free to talk to anyone.
repeekad 16 hours ago||
Too bad Mr. Lai was not
budududuroiu 15 hours ago||||
He wouldn't be meeting Xi, as it's not a state visit, but he did meet the Vice Premier, He Lifeng. Elon also met Li Qiang.
D_Alex 9 hours ago||||
Imagine if Jensen Huang started meeting Xi Jinping to seek help for carrying out political change in the US.

What then?

shimman 11 hours ago|||
No need, he has already convinced Trump to sell chips to China unabated. Why meet at this point?
lbrito 16 hours ago||
Doesn't martyrdom imply, um, death?

I don't care about the specific politics, and I don't know his biography. You can love this man and hate China with the power of every cell in your body. But calling anyone a martyr, even with poetic license, has very specific connotations which don't seem to apply here.

Snild 16 hours ago||
Not necessarily:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/martyr

> a person who suffers very much or is killed because of their religious or political beliefs, and is often admired because of it

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martyr

> 2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle

everdrive 15 hours ago|||
Would you be you happier with "soon-to-be-martyr" or "martyr-in-the-making" ?
lbrito 15 hours ago||
Snarkiness is not appreciated here. Well, at least officially.

No, that wouldn't make me happy. A world without suffering and oppression would make me happy, but failing that, lets at least try to use words appropriately.

zdragnar 14 hours ago||
He will likely die in prison, either from old age, poor conditions or shenanigans. He could have fled, but chose not to. Calling him a martyr isn't too much of a stretch.
fibers 17 hours ago||
Headline seems overstated.
pavlov 17 hours ago||
From the article:

“He may be sentenced to die in prison in connection with his efforts promoting liberty in China.”

Martyr doesn’t sound like overstatement if that happens.

bmelton 17 hours ago|||
It seems accurate and unsensational here

I think perhaps we've lionized the term martyr to mean too many things, but his actions seem in line with the dictionary definition

ch4s3 16 hours ago|||
Jimmy Lai is more courageous and principled than anyone you've probably ever met in your life. He'll die in prison for his belief that speech should be free in Hong Kong.
_tik_ 5 hours ago|||
I will not called Jimmy Lai as principled based on how he run his news outlet. You can just simply check on wikipedia his reputationa and his news outlet reputation. This is one from Jimmy Lai https://hongkongfp.com/2020/11/02/explainer-apple-dailys-jim...
fibers 15 hours ago|||
Appeals to emotions won't get you anywhere. What else is next, "We NEED to reelect Trump to restore Christendom in the West!!!"?
ch4s3 13 hours ago||
It isn't an appeal to emotion. Jimmy Lai stood up for free speech in Hong Kong, factually and it paying with his life. I'm simply pointing out that you have probably never seen real courage or conviction in your life and aren't in a good position to judge Jimmy Lai.

Your whole posting history is just inflammatory claims that you rarely stand behind. I keep bumping into you doing this, it's a bad look.

idiotsecant 17 hours ago||
This man will spend the rest of his (possibly short?) life in prison for the crime of publishing ideas that the government didn't like. He chose to stay in hong kong defending the principles that mattered to him instead of abandoning his principles and fleeing to the UK, which was on option entirely open to him.

Explain why you think it's overstated.

tammakiiroha 8 hours ago|
I don't think he died for so‑called freedom; to me he is a traitor. When someone in your country uses the banner of liberating freedom to collude with foreign powers and attempts to split the country, do you still consider him some noble martyr who died for freedom?
Arn_Thor 35 minutes ago|
And to most Hong Kongers (at least judging by the last local election after the 2019 protests), anone who collaborated with pro-mainland forces to kill one-country-two-systems and stifle the free speech guaranteed under the handover could be considered traitors. You know what would settle Hong Kong's status once and for all? Free and fair elections. Then the people could choose to align with the mainland, or not. But I have a hunch you wouldn't be so keen on that.