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Posted by rbanffy 12/22/2025

US blocks all offshore wind construction, says reason is classified(arstechnica.com)
612 points | 520 commentspage 3
mv4 12/22/2025|
Trump Media merging with a fusion energy firm.
janc_ 12/23/2025||
The weirdest part was that it increased share value, when realistically it should have decreased it…
brewdad 12/22/2025||
Not sure why this was downvoted. This was announced last week.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-media-fusion-power-company-...

d--b 12/22/2025||
Trump doesn't like windfarms since they built some off the coast of his Scottish golf club.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_International_Golf_Club_...

josefritzishere 12/22/2025|
I suspect this is the true reason. He is not known for being a strategic thinker.
Havoc 12/23/2025||
US bribery system eh I mean fossil fuel lobby strikes again
metalman 12/22/2025||
drones are invisible to radar.......or clearly russia(or ukrain) would not be dealing with strikes far from the front lines also, hypersonic missles are now a thing, and the hit faster than any radar or interceptor can register but yes if you were worried about Portugal trying a sneak attack, then clearly they would use the wind turbine shielding attack vector from weaponised shipping cans placed on container ships
janc_ 12/23/2025||
They are not (necessarily) invisible, that depends on size & many other variables.

Also, hypersonic missiles are perfectly vusible on radar.

cosmicgadget 12/23/2025||
Drones are regularly intercepted in the Ukraine war. Patriot batteries have intercepted kinzhals.
riku_iki 12/23/2025||
Kinzhal is ballistic missile flying on high altitude trajectory, so it is easily visible and somehow interceptable.

Drones and cruise missiles often fly very low, which makes them much harder to detect and intercept.

BenFranklin100 12/22/2025||
This is dumb. We are in the midst of an energy shortage that will only get worse.

Between MAGA blocking wind and Progressives blocking nuclear, the US is left with solar and carbon.

Solar is fine, but it needs a 24/7 base. Unfortunately it increasingly appears that base will remain carbon.

speed_spread 12/22/2025|
> energy shortage that will only get worse

Worse? An energy shortage is an opportunity to increase prices and make more money! Think about the hyuge profits!

meroes 12/22/2025||
If fent is a WMD then so are turbines!
Ayanonymous 12/23/2025||
I found this article interesting as someone still learning about how energy policy and renewable projects interact with government decisions. It’s surprising to see how national security concerns are being used to pause offshore wind construction, and I’m curious how this will affect both the industry and broader energy goals. Thanks for the clear overview!
linuxhansl 12/22/2025||
What the... It seems we crossed into the realm of intentionally doing damage. I'm reminded of threatening tariffs to successfully derail global carbon levy on ship emissions.

Meanwhile China runs away with all the clean energy tech (solar, wind, batteries, etc, etc.) while we hold to fossil fuels to save less than 200,000 jobs.

throw0101d 12/22/2025||
> Meanwhile China runs away with all the clean energy tech (solar, wind, batteries, etc, etc.) while we hold to fossil fuels to save less than 200,000 jobs.

If you're talking about coal miners, David Frum joked / observed that there are more yoga instructors in the US than coal miners:

* https://www.sfgate.com/columnists/article/Yoga-teachers-vs-c...

MengerSponge 12/23/2025|||
And that was in 2017! The population of working coal miners shrank by 20% in the last decade, from 50k to 40k

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU1021210001#0

canyp 12/22/2025||||
That headline really deserves a literary prize.

Yoga instructors, assemble!

array_key_first 12/23/2025||||
Also coal mining is a shitty ass job. Those people would be much better served working in green energy.
JohnTHaller 12/22/2025|||
We've been in the realm of intentionally doing damage for a while now. But we got these cool red hats.
Herring 12/22/2025||
[flagged]
NewJazz 12/22/2025|||
Trouble is... You can do it to a few minorities and get away with it. When you act like an asshole to the entire world, well suddenly assholes as big as you are in the minority... Oops.
watwut 12/22/2025|||
He is going to do to America the same thing he had done to his companies - destroy it. Unfortunately, he fails upwards, so he will take over the whole world and then destroy it all.
DFHippie 12/22/2025||
He will die pretty soon. He's just the first stage of the rocket. He thinks he's a pharaoh letting a thousand pyramids bloom, but he's expendable. He'll be gone. People will chisel his name off the monuments he's vandalized. But the people who granted him power like what he's doing. He's somebody's monkey. The hollowing out of the US and the world order that produced western prosperity and security will continue. The people who call the tune to which he dances will call tunes for the next monkey.
andrewflnr 12/22/2025|||
Intentionally doing damage started with DOGE. So, roughly day 1.
bakies 12/22/2025|||
you forgot this is part 2
andrewflnr 12/22/2025||
Ok, right. Intentionally doing damage started at least as early as Jan 6 2021.
nailer 12/22/2025|||
[flagged]
nutjob2 12/22/2025|||
Those "savings" have not withstood careful analysis. Essentially they're nonsense and with the damage they have done the final bill will be much higher than any savings.
cosmicgadget 12/23/2025||||
Do you honestly think federal employees are more corrupt than this administration?
nailer 12/23/2025||
Yes.
cosmicgadget 12/23/2025||
Which one had a greater 2025 net worth increase than the president? Which one pardoned people who donated to his campaign or ballroom? Which one is subject to legal reprisal for corruption?
nailer 12/24/2025||
Business tends to vote for pro business parties. I have no idea re: the whitehouse ballroom. There’s been little legal reprisal for federal employee corruption.
amanaplanacanal 12/22/2025||||
Just because they call it waste, doesn't make it so. You could cut anything and then justify it by calling it waste.

It's all bullshit.

seg_lol 12/23/2025||||
14 million dead kids.
array_key_first 12/23/2025||||
Just uh... just waiting for those saving to hit.

Yup, ahh... any day now.

watwut 12/22/2025|||
The group that was found to be massively lying every time they released stats in easy to catch ways and wasted more money then they saved?
pheggs 12/22/2025|||
there are at least two reasons trump is pushing for oil:

1) the US has lots of oil reserves, which would lose lots of value if everybody was using renewables 2) oil is the main driver for dollar demand, as oil is paid in dollar, allowing the US to have lots of debt relatively cheaply

That's also the reason why he wants to tell Europe to stop using renewables, and that's the reason why he is threatening Venezuela - because they have the biggest oil reserve and started selling it in different currencies.

Now whether that whole genius strategy to gain wealth through geopolitics is worth an extinction event is a different story.

Jtsummers 12/22/2025|||
> That's also the reason why he wants to tell Europe to stop using renewables, and that's the reason why he is threatening Venezuela - because they have the biggest oil reserve and started selling them not in USD.

What's interesting is that the strategy you suggest (tell Europe to stop using renewables, attack nations that compete with US oil sales) only motivates other nations to move away from oil. It's a terrible strategy if the intent is to sell more US oil. Renewables are far more sustainable in many regards, and bolster national energy security while remaining on fossil fuels leaves them weak wrt energy security.

jopsen 12/22/2025|||
Also the US is increasingly proving itself as an unreliable partner. Do you want that for your energy supply?

This is just more of that, contracts in the US are suddenly subject to political winds.

In the end, this will probably be unblocked by the legal system, and eventually the US tax payers will pay for damages. But it'll be a long time.

pheggs 12/22/2025|||
it could very well be that it backfires. I guess time will tell. A lot of his actions seem to be trimmed into this direction, and it's not a new one. He left the paris climate agreement quite a while back as far as I remember. blocking offshore wind construction just fits this agenda, as supporting companies to manufacture these windmills would just make everything cheaper (more demand, rising production capacity etc.) and demonstrate actual use of it.

At least that's how I see this.

Jtsummers 12/22/2025||
> it could very well be that it backfires.

It's kind of hard to see the strategy you outlined as doing anything other than backfiring. Oil and other fossil fuels are consumables. Once burned, they're gone. For strategic reasons, most nations with any sense and the economic ability to do so are turning away from fossil fuels precisely due to this fact. European nations are not exceptional here, the US is actually the outlier.

Your suggested strategy is that the US wants European nations to buy more US oil, and in order to motivate them the US is demonstrating how bad oil dependence is. See Cuba (they depend on Venezuelan oil there).

How could a demonstration of the flaws of oil dependency possibly motivate the sale of US oil rather than hasten the move towards solar, wind, and other power sources?

This is why I said it's a terrible strategy. Only the non-thinking would go for it.

pheggs 12/23/2025||
You could be right. I try to abstain from making any predictions, because I see the world is such a complicated mess where even stupid decisions could get a positive outcome due to unforeseeable events. (a new pandemic? a war breaks out? someone decided to retaliate? the suez canal gets occupied? a volcano erupts?)

That being said, he is obviously aware that Europe is planning on greener energy. This administration also tries to break down the EU by pulling out countries like Italy and Poland. They are clearly promoting right wing parties all over Europe which align more with his agenda and are more EU sceptic. They might try to use social media for propaganda. The goal is divide and conquer. Europe has to pay attention to this and be aware of the risk. The strategy may seem stupid, but it would be even more stupid to ignore it and not make sure it fails.

That's my personal opinion on this subject.

aqme28 12/22/2025||||
There is a third important reason--

For some reason, oil has masculine aesthetics but wind power doesn't. I don't think this is a calculated play

senectus1 12/23/2025|||
The Aplha Male Energy didnt do so well over the weekend. One got its jaw broken in two places... the other just got pounded into submission.
osn9363739 12/22/2025|||
How many people actual think like this or are influenced by it? (I'm going to be disappointed aren't I)
llbbdd 12/22/2025||
Nobody at all, but isn't it scary to imagine? In fact we could imagine and invent all kinds of scary things if we think too much. Ahh!
ssl-3 12/22/2025|||
I know plenty of people personally who can rant about energy prices being high while somehow finding room in the same breath to demonize wind and solar energy and even namedrop whichever foul devil bogeyman it is this week that is said to be the cause of this disjointed trauma that they find so overwhelming.

In the next breath, they pick something else from the deck to be upset about: These days, that's usually brown people, emails, laptops, the American cities that people in frog costumes burn to the ground every night, brown people, guns, laptops, and Hillary.

Sometimes, they then take a break to hear themselves talk about baseball, praise the president for getting so much done that he doesn't even have time to sleep, or to complain about the plot from the episode of The Dukes of Hazard -- from 1983 -- that they watched for the 14th time last night on Pluto.

After the break, it's time for them to complain about how they can't afford visit a doctor or buy eyeglasses, but they sure as hell don't want them any of those librawls to take any of their hard-earned money so everyone can go to the doctor.

Then things shift back to being weirder again: Schools turning boys into girls, kids using litter boxes in the classroom, men wearing dresses, God's Perfect Plan, guns, brown people, groceries, brown people, and blue hair dye.

This tiresome process repeats until I manage to escape, or I tell them very pointedly to shut the fuck up (hints don't work).

None of the people I know who act this way seem to be particularly bright, but I know them anyway.

And they vote. (Yes, I've checked.)

hunterpayne 12/23/2025||
"while somehow finding room in the same breath to demonize wind and solar energy "

Did you ever consider that all the money spent on expensive renewables is money not spent on cheaper forms of power? Did you ever consider that they are correct and that spending on renewables drives up power costs? Because that's what the data says is happening. Now, I am aware that the amount of FUD on this topic is very different to get through. But if you learn about the differences between capacity and utilization costs and the other accounting games that are played with energy costs, you will learn how to see through the FUD. But I'm sure it is more psychologically comforting to just look down on them which is what you are actually doing.

ssl-3 12/23/2025||
I consider that I'm intertwined in the evolution of a very different friend's very local efforts, with their own hybrid battery-backed grid-tied offline-capable solar power system.

That rig is pretty sweet.

It pays for itself, and in present form and with their present use (wherein: they're not trying to live particularly-efficiently) it is almost entirely capable of keeping them with power even if the grid goes down for an indefinite period.

But, sure: We can talk about games, instead, if what you want to chat about is just games.

What games might you have in mind?

hunterpayne 12/23/2025||
"entirely capable of keeping them with power even if the grid goes down for an indefinite period."

You do know that batteries have a capacity right? And powerplants have something called a capacity factor. That means for a given amount of capacity, you generate on average a certain amount of power. For nuclear that factor is .9. For renewables its .1. So 1 watt of nuclear provides the same power as 9 watts of renewables. That's why when you say that renewables have 1/3 the capacity cost, it really means its 3x more expensive than nuclear. That means higher bills for people, which is what we mean when we say utilization cost. That's the real cost that people pay and actually counts. And all this is before we talk about siting issues with renewables. Fun fact, most PV is sites (located) somewhere with an albino factor of less than .25. But since you connected a battery terminal to a PV panel, you must know what that means. Seriously, you are just spreading misinformation that transfers cost from the rich to the poor, such a hero you are.

ssl-3 12/23/2025||
I didn't say that renewables have 1/3 of anything.

And I'm a big fan of nuclear power. I, for one, am completely in favor of having as many nuclear power plants in my back yard as possible.

You seem to be having an argument with someone who is not present -- as if you have some unseen enemy.

This delusion has been noted.

There is nothing here for us to discuss.

Good day.

array_key_first 12/23/2025|||
Most grown men are influenced by this. The patriachy is strongggg.

Just like you can manipulate women en-masse by appealing to patriarchal attitudes around femininity and beauty, maybe by talking about weight or hair, you can influence men by appealing to patriachal attitudes around masculinity.

I mean, you can convince the average American man to drop an extra 20K on a truck he doesn't need and a multiply his gas cost by 2x just by convincing him it's manly. You can discourage men from drinking cosmopolitans and instead have them drink the equivalent of cat piss by telling him it's unmanly.

unmole 12/23/2025||||
> oil is the main driver for dollar demand, as oil is paid in dollar

This stupid meme needs to die.

tagawa 12/22/2025|||
Maybe a third reason:

“Last week, Trump Media, the parent company of Truth Social that is majority-owned by the president, said it was getting into the energy business, announcing a merger with a fusion firm TAE Technologies.”

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd74lyr094vo

iszomer 12/23/2025||
Coincidentally, TAE Technologies had a product placement baked into the 2021 film named Finch with Tom Hanks, distributed by Apple Original Films.
huntertwo 12/22/2025|||
The intention is to make specific individuals a lot of money. It has been since day 1.
dylan604 12/22/2025||
Do you mean the first day 1 or the second day 1?
tclancy 12/23/2025|||
Yes.
iwontberude 12/22/2025|||
Reminiscent of how most water which used to melt into the Great Salt Lake is now being used to farm Alfalfa, which only makes up 1% of their GDP and far fewer jobs than other industries. Of course if this continues for another generation, toxic arsenic dust will pollute and force the failure of Salt Lake City and surrounding regions. Luckily this will cause the agricultural industry to fail (after killing many people) and nature will heal itself.
dboreham 12/22/2025|||
> we crossed into the realm of intentionally doing damage

That occurred a long time ago with the destruction of USAID and arbitrary firing of large numbers of federal workers.

nailer 12/22/2025||
[flagged]
Tostino 12/22/2025|||
There will be an estimated 14 million extra deaths directly attributed to this policy choice: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

91 million lives were saved over the last two decades. The vast majority of that wasn't "international development" fluff; it was basic survival. We’re talking about stopping tuberculosis, malaria, and starvation.

Framing this as getting rid of unwanted "cultural programs" is a convenient way to ignore the fact that we pulled the plug on the life support system for 30 million children.

nailer 12/23/2025|||
Why does medical aid require gay and lesbian cultural programming?
stinkbeetle 12/23/2025|||
[flagged]
triceratops 12/22/2025||||
> vast amounts of money on cultural programs for countries that didn't want them.

I don't understand. How do you give someone money if they don't want it?

iszomer 12/23/2025|||
More like "if we can't be partners we'll find your enemies and fund them instead." or, "we'll partner with your next of kin who may be more sympathetic [or suggestive] to our concerns."
triceratops 12/23/2025||
And it's a problem if your enemies' cultural programs get funded?
nailer 12/23/2025|||
[flagged]
triceratops 12/23/2025||
[flagged]
nailer 12/24/2025||
[dead]
triceratops 12/28/2025||
[flagged]
cosmicgadget 12/23/2025||||
What other things should we destroy because you can vaguely describe something you consider wasteful?
platinumrad 12/22/2025|||
"What is soft power?"
ugh123 12/22/2025|||
>while we hold to fossil fuels to save less than 200,000 jobs.

No, not for jobs. Profits, stock bumps, and bonuses for the execs at oil companies and friends of the admin.

Moldoteck 12/22/2025|||
china runs with everything. They are still expanding coal units for firming and they'll build a ton of new gas units too. But to ban deployment of wind turbines without any explanation is ... expected from current administration...
hopelite 12/22/2025||
Being blind with bias is also expected. I don't like what is going on either, but please consider that if it was only about "damaging" as others have implied, it would not just be off shore wind turbines. I can assure you there are other reasons.
jdlshore 12/22/2025|||
Okay, what are they?
sixothree 12/23/2025|||
We knew going into this administration that revenge would be part of every policy.
vkou 12/22/2025|||
> What the... It seems we crossed into the realm of intentionally doing damage.

He's been doing that since January.

simonsarris 12/22/2025|||
I hope you realize that China's coal and oil use for electricity is at an all-time high and increasing. They have installed more coal capacity since 2020 than the US has total. US coal usage peaked circa 2000 and has decreased for the last 2 decades.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou...

triceratops 12/22/2025|||
> They have installed more coal capacity since 2020 than the US has total

80% or more of new electricity generation in China is renewable. They build coal capacity but they don't use more of it.

This year their absolute carbon emissions decreased.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45108292

simonsarris 12/22/2025||
That article is about emissions, not admixture. If you look at the source of that article, which they link to: https://carbonmonitor.org/variation

First off we can now look at the full year instead of 6 months of data, its no longer US +4.2% and China -2.7%, its US +2.0% and China -2.3%

China's 2025 YoY emissions decline is almost all due to a decline in industry, not power (1.8% of their 2.3% decline, in other words, most of it). It's understandable to have a lower year if you have an economic slowdown. Russia also had a decline, not for green reasons.

triceratops 12/22/2025||
Their economy grew 3% this year and they cut emissions. https://rhg.com/research/chinas-economy-rightsizing-2025-loo...

"economic slowdown" is an exaggeration.

simonsarris 12/22/2025||
A 3% GDP growth this year is a slowdown from 2024. Did you read this paper? I encourage you to at least read the abstract. It discusses whether "China's 2025 economic growth story turns on whether investment merely declined in the second half of the year or collapsed."
ProjectArcturis 12/22/2025||
You seem to be confusing first and second derivatives.
simonsarris 12/22/2025||
China had an emissions decline in 2025 that is substantially attributable to a decline in industry, per their first source. The decline in industry is plausible so long as GDP growth in 2025 is lower than GDP growth in 2024, and is additionally supported by the newly introduced source that the commentor did not read. Yes, it is possible to have an economic slowdown and a positive GDP print.

In general it's weird to say '"economic slowdown" is an exaggeration' and then link to something that talks about the economic slowdown.

triceratops 12/23/2025||
I don't know what "decline in industry" means here tbh. Emissions from industry went down, but GDP still went up. Does that mean there's "less industry" or "more industry"? How do you measure "industry"? Maybe their industry just became more efficient.

Total emissions also went down. Yeah GDP went up less than last year but that hardly matters when we're talking about an emissions reduction. Not "less emissions growth than last year", an absolute decrease.

stephen_g 12/23/2025||||
New coal data is out just a few days ago [1], it's plateaued globally and expected to start to decline.

China's consumption this year was about the same as last, and looking to drop a bit, so likely old coal plants were being retired at about the same rate as newer ones were built, and that will start to go the other way (more retired than built).

1. https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-has-reached-a-pl...

timeon 12/23/2025|||
Article is about US blocking energy from wind. You are (correctly) saying that China is increasing energy from coal and oil.

What is your point? Can you elaborate how this is relevant?

wnevets 12/22/2025|||
> What the... It seems we crossed into the realm of intentionally doing damage.

That began almost the moment this administration came into power.

nerevarthelame 12/22/2025|||
>It seems we crossed into the realm of intentionally doing damage.

"The Trump administration’s decision to shut down the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths from infectious diseases and malnutrition, according to Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health’s Atul Gawande ... The dismantling of USAID, according to models from Boston University epidemiologist Brooke Nichols, “has already caused the deaths of six hundred thousand people, two-thirds of them children,” Gawande wrote. He noted that the toll will continue to grow and may go unseen because it can take months or years for people to die from lack of treatments or vaccine-preventable illnesses—and because deaths are scattered." [https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hund...]

ekjhgkejhgk 12/22/2025|||
What? They've been intentionally doing damage for a long time. Pardoning criminals is one that comes to mind.
dfxm12 12/22/2025||
Pardoning criminals is one that comes to mind.

Seriously, the pardons alone make this the most pro-crime administration in my lifetime. Probably ever.

vkou 12/22/2025||
At the same time as pardoning the Jan 6 insurrectionists, he's seeking multi-year felony convictions for... People standing in front of an ICE bus.[1]

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2025/jun/12/stuckart-relea...

[1] Apparently, if Tank Man[2] was present in the US in 2025, he'd be guilty of 'Unlawful imprisonment'.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

iwontberude 12/22/2025|||
[flagged]
bakies 12/22/2025|||
not to deny the allegations but every president has had their arm twisted by Israel and sell out to oil.
weregiraffe 12/23/2025|||
[flagged]
iwontberude 12/23/2025||
Ahh you failed to use scare quotes, so I win
schmuckonwheels 12/22/2025||
[flagged]
heavyset_go 12/22/2025|||
Now do per capita emissions and consider where 90% of anything you buy is manufactured. The world launders its manufacturing emissions through China.
bakies 12/22/2025|||

  #  Country        CO2/capita  CO2 total (2022)   Population
  -  -------------  ----------  ----------------   ----------------
  1  China               8.89   12,667,428,430     1,425,179,569
  2  United States      14.21    4,853,780,240       341,534,046
  3  India               1.89    2,693,034,100     1,425,423,212

To save others the google search I did
marknutter 12/22/2025|||
I'm sure the climate will be just fine because China's per capita isn't as bad as the US.
clayhacks 12/22/2025||||
America is still the largest historical polluter by a mile and China has already hit peak emissions. They are doing much better than America on this front. At this rate they’ll hit net zero before we will
fpoling 12/22/2025||||
China population is 4 times of US.
ceejayoz 12/22/2025||
And a good portion of their pollution is on behalf of that much smaller population.
triceratops 12/22/2025||||
> Any investment by China is clearly because they found a way to profit from it

An investment that doesn't make a profit is kinda pointless. Business 101.

> Your neighbor thinks he's saving the world filling his roof with cheap Chinese solar panels

And he's right. God bless him for having more sense than you.

> ignoring the toxic chemicals and human cost that went into manufacturing it

Yeah no toxic chemicals or human cost whatsoever went into digging up your coal and gasoline.

Tell us honestly: why do you gain by lying?

epistasis 12/22/2025||||
If somebody does pollution for a while how in the world would that make them ineligible from being the leader in the future technologies that stop the pollution?

I am not following your logic or point here. The US has been the leading polluter, would that somehow stop us from saving the world from pollute if we came up with the technology for the rest of the world to stop polluting? Of course not. It's a very strange whataboutism that you are purveying that gets repeated frequently in online forums, but doesn't stand up to a little bit of back-and-forth.

SeanAnderson 12/22/2025||||
per capita? or?
Filligree 12/22/2025||
2-3x absolute. And of course they make a lot of our goods.
unethical_ban 12/22/2025||||
Pollutant-wise, are you insinuating that solar and wind and battery manufacturing is more polluting overall than the extraction and burning of fossil fuels they replace?
unethical_ban 12/22/2025|||
Parent deleted his comment with insults and got flagged dead. Perhaps insulting those with legitimate questions and people who have long-term accounts (indicating a lack of low-effort brigading ala reddit) isn't the best method, particularly when you don't respond to any of those questions. A bit of a "look in the mirror" moment.
schmuckonwheels 12/22/2025||
Nothing to do with my comment or your reply specifically. I suspected bot voting manipulation and this entire discussion is filled with absolutely stupid Reddit-style comments. People posting substantive comments were being downvoted.

Some of the dumbest, low quality comments I read here come from 10+ year old accounts so account age has no correlation to discussion quality.

I can't argue in good faith when everyone is acting like children.

ikekkdcjkfke 12/22/2025|||
Depends on the regulations where the processes are happening
pengaru 12/22/2025|||
> China is by far the world's biggest polluter, by a factor of 2-3x that of the US so let's not paint them as some beacon of environmental stewardship.

China's leading the planet in development and deployment of renewable energy tech.

What proportion of China's emissions are a consequence of The West's externalizing the manufacturing of what it consumes?

At least with China in the driver's seat it looks like the planet's manufacturing needs will actually get cleaned up. Meanwhile the US will keep pearl clutching as it fades into irrelevance and Zimbabwean hyperinflation.

therobots927 12/22/2025||
All the more reason for me to invest in a personal windmill.
derriz 12/22/2025||
Sadly wind turbines don’t really scale down like PV panels. The energy produced by PV panels is a linear function of their surface area. For wind turbines, it scales with the square of the blade length.
KaiserPro 12/22/2025|||
This is true, but if you already have a battery, getting an extra 200-400w when the sun isn't shining is really useful. (for a UK based house. Not so sure about the USA.)

The cost isn't as good as solar though. a 1kw turbine is expensive.

padjo 12/22/2025|||
They also need regular servicing and proper locating away from turbulence. Micro scale wind makes absolutely no sense economically.
janc_ 12/23/2025||
Economic sense depends on individual/local circumstances also.
MandieD 12/22/2025|||
Wow, that would take care of our usual home office base load (Germany, not using electricity for heating)
archi42 12/22/2025||
It's a siren call for us techies, but reality is less pretty than our fantasies of "cheap base load".

I got an offer for a "essentially free" residential turbine including the pylon (8 to 10 meters, the legal limit for a "Kleinwindanlage") in SW Germany - just had to dismantle it and put it on my lawn. And of course pour a huge foundation [2x2m?] and have an accredited electrician do the necessary alterations. Nope. It didn't even produce enough electricity to offset the maintenance costs - no idea how I should offset the costs for moving it, even with the free capex.

And I did the math about 3 years ago: Prices for both PV and batteries dropped a lot since then. For late fall/early spring I would be better off by adding a PV carport (2 cars). I could also finally automate charging my batteries while electricity is cheap during Dec/Jan, might even be worth bumping my existing battery from 28 kWh to 42 kWh.

To be fair: The math might work out in the Northern Germany; but I would not bet on it.

aidenn0 12/22/2025|||
Doesn't the area described by a turbine's motion scale with the square of the blade-length, so given a circular area covered by a turbine, the power will scale linearly with that area?
derriz 12/23/2025||
Yes but you’re not paying for the area the blade covers - you’re paying for the blade. Simplifying (to an extreme) for the sake of illustration - a 20m blade costs twice as much as a 10m one but produces 4 times the energy.

Obviously, cost scales more than linearly with blade length but it’s a bit like big O - the n^2 factor dominates. This is why wind turbines have been getting bigger and bigger. And why the cost of domestic or small-scale wind turbines remains stubbornly high despite the dramatic fall in the average cost per MW seen for wind turbines - as the falls are largely driven by the ability to manufacture larger and larger turbine blades. While falls in costs for solar PV can be seen at every scale.

Rebelgecko 12/22/2025||
YMMV depending on where you live but for MOST people you get more bang for your buck with solar+batteries
beembeem 12/22/2025||
Unlike solar, wind at the utility scale virtually always improves load factors, lcoe, and a host of other economics vs a personal installation.

Generally utility scale solar buys cheap panels that aren't as energy dense as those purchased by rooftop consumers, so you could make the argument. However, the efficiency and energy density of the ever-growing turbines installed by utilities, particularly off-shore, are far more efficient than anything you would install yourself. E.g. average annual wind speed typically improves with altitude, and having a taller turbine can reach those larger sustained wind speeds. Whereas, utilities and consumers almost always install solar near-ish ground level and see the same sky, perhaps the utility installs in a sunnier corner of geography. Consumers potentially benefit from the shading of panels, and lower distribution costs.

ChoGGi 12/23/2025|
How many golf courses is he planning to build?
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