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Posted by saubeidl 12/24/2025

The EU's fine against X is not about speech or ‘censorship’(www.techpolicy.press)
52 points | 99 comments
CamelCaseName 12/24/2025|
How many people get scammed every day on X because the verification badge is a "Spend $1-5" badge?

This was especially plain to see in the crypto side of twitter.

Platforms cannot make statements on the legitimacy of a user without incurring some level of responsibility, regardless if it's "obvious" that a verified badge simply means that you've spent a couple dollars.

The average internet user is closer to your grandmother than you or me, and that is who these laws are meant to protect.

gruez 12/24/2025||
>Platforms cannot make statements on the legitimacy of a user without incurring some level of responsibility, regardless if it's "obvious" that a verified badge simply means that you've spent a couple dollars.

So what's the right level of "responsibility"? Is letsencrypt issuing certificates to websites (which shows a lock icon in browsers) also fooling grandma into sending over her credit card details? What about EV certificates from a few years ago, where you paid ~$300/yr for a green lock? Should the EU get in the business of regulating what levels of verification are required to show lock/checkmark icons?

gjsman-1000 12/24/2025|||
To continue this train of thought, what happens when the EU decides that unverified users must be hidden by default and can only be accessed by direct lookup?
bigyabai 12/24/2025||
X users would finally come to the realization that they own nothing and support an entirely unprincipled service?
fidotron 12/24/2025|||
It will end like Germany where to put anything on the Internet your physical address must be visible.

This is what they've been pushing for with app stores.

GuestFAUniverse 12/24/2025||
Not true. Personal and family matters do not need an impress.

You might want to read Rundfunkstaatsvertrag (RStV), (§ 55 Abs. 1): "Anbieter von Telemedien, die nicht ausschließlich persönlichen oder familiären Zwecken dienen, haben folgende Informationen leicht erkennbar, unmittelbar erreichbar und ständig verfügbar zu halten: Namen und Anschrift, bei juristischen Personen auch Namen und Anschrift des Vertretungsberechtigten."

Google translate: " Providers of telemedia services that are not exclusively for personal or family purposes must keep the following information easily recognizable, directly accessible and permanently available: name and address, and in the case of legal entities, also the name and address of the authorized representative. "

fidotron 12/24/2025||
> Personal and family matters do not need an impress.

Does advocating for one political position or another count as a personal or family matter?

ecshafer 12/24/2025||
So as opposed to the old twitter method which was a vague “you know someone at twitter”, which led to random “journalists” and nobodies being verified. Paying money is just as arbitrary. Money at least means a credit card transaction happened.
ceejayoz 12/24/2025||
An actual human employee at Twitter vouching for someone’s existence seems far more reputable than being able to purchase a Visa gift card in a convenience store.

Verification was “this account is who it says it is”. Not “this account has $10 to spare”.

surgical_fire 12/24/2025||
I remember it being just a "good boy" badge.

People routinely had their checkmark removed when they said something controversial.

myvoiceismypass 12/24/2025||
> People routinely had their checkmark removed when they said something controversial.

It was not indeed happening "routinely".

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/15/16658600/twitter-verific...

surgical_fire 12/24/2025||
Still something that defeats the purpose, no?

A verification badge should be something that says "this person indeed is who they claim to be" not "they can spend a couple of bucks a month" nor "we like him enough to give them a checkmark". Both are extremely unhelpful. The latter probably even more unhelpful since it is very subjective.

ceejayoz 12/25/2025||
Verification came with moderation tweaks for high-profile accounts to combat things like brigading via mass abuse reports. That's why consistently bad behavior tended to lose the check.

Probably should've been two different flags, but it wasn't.

energy123 12/24/2025||
Regulate the algorithm. Make it boring.
nailer 12/24/2025|
The algorithm is open source and on GitHub. It is pretty boring.
baobun 12/24/2025|||
No it is not open source and on GitHub. I think it is fair to call that repo fake. It is not even runnable code.
omnimus 12/24/2025||
Also who cares what they publish. They would have to prove they run the same code. Otherwise it can be just gen AI coded whatever.
nickthegreek 12/24/2025||
They have proved that they do not on several occasions.
CamelCaseName 12/24/2025||||
That's a very outdated algorithm, which is why X was willing to open source it.
nailer 12/24/2025||
So campaign for an update.
touwer 12/24/2025|||
And you believe that?
nailer 12/25/2025||
[flagged]
baobun 12/25/2025||
How can you believe it when the "code" has never been runnable?
cientifico 12/24/2025||
I don't know how it is in US, but in Europe, the amount of scams is growing. Twitter blue checkmark was created to distinguish real humans vs scammers.

The fine was to protected the users from that scam.

I like paying taxes to protected the users that don't have the ability to detect scams as we all here have (most of the time).

EU miss the point equally to the Congress in uuss when non tech people believe they can rule (or just lobbied).

But on this case, there will be no problem if Twitter had decided to use another checkmark for pro accounts.

saubeidl 12/24/2025||
tl;dr

The three reasons for the fine are:

* Lack of transparency / misleading verified checkmarks

* Lack of open data access

* Lack of any ad transparency showing who paid to show which ads

None of those are censorship. All of those are basic good governance and transparency.

The censorship angle is nothing but FUD by an admin terrified of good governance and transparency.

mikkupikku 12/24/2025|
Two of those, "transparency" and "open data access" are demands from those who would subsequently use that information and access to inform and enforce censorship.
touwer 12/24/2025|||
Based on what information?
saubeidl 12/24/2025|||
That sounds like quite the claim, do you have any evidence to support it?

Personally, I'd like to know who is trying to steer the conversation, in light of psyop campaigns and hybrid warfare against our democracy.

I'd also like researchers to be able to examine how a large public forum is run.

Again, transparency is the name of the game.

mikkupikku 12/24/2025||
> I'd like to know who is trying to steer the conversation, in light of psyop campaigns and hybrid warfare against our democracy.

What use is that information to governments, if not to guide their censorship efforts? It's a setup for labelling your opposition as "hybrid warfare" combatants, not because they picked up a gun but rather because they're saying things you think shouldn't be said.

saubeidl 12/24/2025||
The information isn't made available to governments, it's made available to the people.

What X is scared of is showing that @AlabamaMAGALady and @DeutscherPatriot are based in St. Petersburg.

Again, there is no censorship. Just a transparency requirement.

modsmidsmods 12/24/2025||
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letsthinkmoreok 12/24/2025||
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DivingForGold 12/24/2025||
[flagged]
danielbln 12/24/2025||
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46325926

This you?

drooopy 12/24/2025|||
Denial of free speech? In which way? And it's incomprehensible that you would bring random Ukraine bashing into your argument out of the blue.
squigz 12/24/2025|||
In what way has X/Twitter been innovative lately? I suppose renaming to X might count?
mittensc 12/24/2025||
> US State Dept has just announced Visa restrictions on all those EU officials involved

So... what?

Visa restrictions can go both ways with US billionaires and politicians getting denied.

Who's gonna back down?

ban4opinions 12/24/2025||
[flagged]
TZubiri 12/24/2025||
[flagged]
nailer 12/24/2025|
Verification has never meant you’re a good person on any platform
ceejayoz 12/24/2025||
Isn’t the problem that they verified “the real Elon Musk”?
nailer 12/24/2025||
According to OP they mention they’re parody account in their bio.
ceejayoz 12/24/2025||
Which no one sees without clicking into said bio.
nailer 12/25/2025||
Yes. It helps the funny.
nailer 12/24/2025|
Of course it is.

Prior checkmarks were for anyone who could pay 15K USD. X simply made it cheaper.

There is also a bizarre fine against Elon personally.

The EU makes more money from fining American tech companies than it makes from EU tech.

Don’t let unelected bureaucrats convince you that this is anything more than a revenue raising exercise for themselves.

touwer 12/24/2025||
Sure. Don't inform yourself. Live in your own little biased world. It's cozy, isn't it. But not real
fidotron 12/24/2025|||
It's true, all those people that disagree with what you have been told are Russian bots.

You can sleep soundly again.

touwer 12/31/2025||
Look at what is written in the previous post. It's stupid and not factual. Indeed, like Russian bots
nailer 12/24/2025|||
[flagged]
saubeidl 12/24/2025||
It's ironic you have that complaint while attacking our government with cheap polemic.
nailer 12/26/2025||
Again these are verifiable facts. They’re not cheap. They’re true. The Twitter verification pages are archived for example. If you have evidence otherwise post it. And the EU is too abstracted to be anyone’s government let alone mine.
nutjob2 12/24/2025|||
EU laws are made by elected representatives.

You make unsupported claims of censorship, but how exactly is a fine against misleading blue dot censorship since it contains no speech? The company could change how they describe the blue dot or attach disclaimers but they don't.

Why? Because the EU's actions serve Musk's and the Administrations political goals of vilifying anyone who has a different view, especially the EU, and using the levers of the state to retaliate and threaten.

> The EU makes more money from fining American tech companies than it makes from EU tech.

If it wasn't for ASML there would be no tech industry. The world depends on a single EU company for advanced chips and for its continued prosperity.

> Don’t let unelected bureaucrats convince you that this is anything more than a revenue raising exercise for themselves.

You're just another EU hater pushing mindless tropes. Why are you so full of hate?

fidotron 12/24/2025|||
> EU laws are made by elected representatives.

No, they are voted on by elected representatives.

They must be proposed by the commission, which is not elected but appointed.

saubeidl 12/24/2025|||
Ugh not this misdirection again.

The commission is appointed by directly elected governments. It's the same as any ministerial post in any government.

It's also the same level of indirection as the US presidency, which is appointed by the Electoral College.

wrongagainyyyy 12/24/2025|||
No, it's more like an ambassador that's appointed by the president, you see we have presidential tickets and you get the two people you vote for, which is different from voting for someone then having the person you vote for decide who to appoint.

Yes technically the us 'electors' could vote for a different presidential ticket, but that's never happened in practice and even then their options are generally limited by who ran, electors can't pick just anyone.

orwin 12/25/2025|||
Didn't it happened once? Southern democrat great electors voted for the republican Vice president, because the democrat vice-president had a non-white wife, and this was forbidden under US law?
nailer 12/29/2025||
Close:

Virginia’s 23 Democratic electors (Southern) refused to vote for Democratic VP candidate Richard Mentor Johnson due to his open common-law relationship with Julia Chinn, an enslaved woman of mixed race (octoroon). Interracial marriage was illegal under anti-miscegenation laws. They voted for Van Buren (president) but switched VP votes to William Smith (another Democrat), denying Johnson a majority. The Senate elected Johnson anyway.

saubeidl 12/24/2025|||
Technically there is a level of indirection even in the presidency, but sure.

Nobody ever complains about ambassadors not being democratic though. Same thing goes for, idk, a Secretary of State or whatever, they all go through the same process.

Only when it comes to EU institutions people can't hide their hatred and can't help themselves but make the same old dishonest claim.

letsthinkmoreok 12/24/2025||
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saubeidl 12/24/2025||
> Look up cj Hopkins

Yikes, I just did. Trivializing the holocaust in Germany of all places is not a good look.

Edit: This is exclusively based on the primary source - a book cover where the guy was using a swastika (!!!) to critise a policy he didn't like - i.e. made light of the holocaust. If you don't understand why that's completely unacceptable, I don't know what to tell you.

letsthinkmoreok 12/24/2025||
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saubeidl 12/24/2025||
Context matters.

It's one thing to use something for documentary purposes or in art. It's another to use it to make light of the holocaust like this guy did. It's all clearly written in our law.

If that person didn't want to follow our law, why did he come here? Why do we have to bother with criminal immigrants that don't want to integrate into our way of life?

fidotron 12/24/2025|||
> Ugh not this misdirection again.

Oh no! Someone pointed out an inconvenient fact again!

> It's also the same level of indirection as the US presidency, which is appointed by the Electoral College.

But the US President doesn't have a monopoly on setting the agenda of Congress, the Commission does with respect to the EU Parliament. Anyone with any political awareness knows that if you set the agenda you control the outcome.

nutjob2 12/24/2025|||
You're wrong on facts and wrong on the comparison with the US system.

The US president can't propose laws, only Congress can, yet he can "set the agenda".

Only the EU Commission can propose laws, but the EU Council (composed of the heads of state or of government of the EU member states) sets the agenda.

"The European Council is a collegiate body and a symbolic collective head of state, that defines the overall political direction and general priorities of the European Union."

They are functionally equivalent.

fidotron 12/24/2025||
> The US president can't propose laws, only Congress can, yet he can "set the agenda".

Fantastic example of unintentional scare quotes.

> Only the EU Commission can propose laws, but the EU Council (composed of the heads of state or of government of the EU member states) sets the agenda.

Who has to nominate all the possible members of the EU Commission? Is it the EU Council?

Face it, the entire EU structure is designed to prevent little people from ever being able to get a law passed which would possibly benefit them except as populist measures inside the EU which stick it to the evil Americans again to promote internal support for the EU.

nutjob2 12/24/2025||
The governments of each EU member state nominate their own candidate for a Commissioner, while the European Council (the heads of state or government) proposes the President of the Commission, who then works with member states to select the full team, all subject to approval by the European Parliament.

> Face it...

Beaten by the facts, you just move on to more vague and hateful nonsense. The EU is not the US. The EU is not a vassal state of the US, it will make its own determinations and punish whoever breaks laws within the EU.

US companies don't have to like it, they can leave. The US wouldn't EU companies breaking US laws so this is all just rank hypocrisy and bigotry.

fidotron 12/25/2025||
> The governments of each EU member state nominate their own candidate for a Commissioner, while the European Council (the heads of state or government) proposes the President of the Commission, who then works with member states to select the full team, all subject to approval by the European Parliament.

Long windedly confirming exactly what I said while attempting to obfuscate the reality. You aren't appointing anyone to the European Commission that didn't get nominated via the European Council, which is the heads of states, and the resulting people then write the laws voted on by the European Parliament.

Unsurprisingly this leads to enormous bureaucratic inertia for the benefit of those that have already captured the system. It is as democratic as the internal functions of the CCP.

> US companies don't have to like it, they can leave.

Why doesn't the EU make them leave? Because you want to act all superior to, say, the CCP or Russia.

> Beaten by the facts

Not even close

> more vague and hateful nonsense.

Come off it - that's your whole m.o.

saubeidl 12/24/2025|||
> Oh no! Someone pointed out an inconvenient fact again!

It's not a fact. It's just pedantry that is conveniently not applied anywhere else. Nobody would say the US president isn't elected or ministers aren't elected, but when it comes to the EU a double standard is applied by dishonest ideologues.

The rest of your post is classic moving of goal posts, but fwiw Congress has been absolutely irrelevant since the sitting president decided to rule by decree.

fidotron 12/24/2025||
> It's not a fact. It's just pedantry

Absolute gold, thanks for that.

> The rest of your post is classic moving of goal posts.

At least you lot have a wicked sense of irony.

orwin 12/24/2025|||
I will remark that no one disputed OP when he remarked that the US executive power is also appointed, not elected, and that weirdly no one make the same point about how undemocratic it is. It does rs feel like OP is right about ideologues only being pedantic when it serves their points.
fidotron 12/24/2025||
Except for this comment right here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46376178
nutjob2 12/24/2025|||
Your understanding of irony is at an Alanis Morissette level.
nutjob2 12/24/2025|||
If they weren't you'd be whining about a loss of sovereignty by EU states. It's an idiotic catch 22.

The EU systems balances national sovereignty with direct democracy but leans toward the former. It's a good system.

Anyway, EU states went to great lengths to join the EU and can leave at any time. Besides the self-destructive UK, none have.

> They must be proposed by the commission, which is not elected but appointed.

The commission is elected by elected representatives. Just like in many countries the leader isn't directly elected by voters but by their elected representatives.

Your comment is just ideological nonsense. You could argue in good faith about the pros and cons of various systems but you don't, it's just hate because you heard Trump or Musk or some right wing figure say it say it and you're garrotting it.

Prove me wrong by detailing whats wrong with it, and "muh democracy" doesn't count.

fidotron 12/24/2025||
> Prove me wrong by detailing whats wrong with it, and "muh democracy" doesn't count.

We're at the "make arbitrary demands" stage of blatant denialism then.

modsmidsmods 12/24/2025|||
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tzs 12/25/2025||
> Prior checkmarks were for anyone who could pay 15K USD

Citation needed. Everything I've been able to find says that they were free.