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Posted by qbow883 12/27/2025

What you need to know before touching a video file(gist.github.com)
368 points | 243 comments
Drybones 2 days ago|
Nearly this entire HN comment section is upset about VLC being mentioned once and not recommended. If you can not understand why this very minor (but loud?) note was made, then you probably do not do any serious video encoding or you would know why it sucks today and is well past its prime. VLC is glorified because it was a video player that used to be amazing back in the day, but hasn't been for several years now. It is the Firefox of media players.

There is a reason why the Anime community has collectively has ditched VLC in favor of MPV and MPC-HC. Color reproduction, modern codec support, ASS subtitle rendering, and even audio codecs are janky or even broken on VLC. 98% of all Anime encode release playback problems are caused by the user using VLC.

We even have a dedicated pastebin on a quick run down of what is wrong: https://rentry.co/vee-ell-cee

And this pastebin doesn't even have all the issues. VLC has a long standing issue of not playing back 5.1 Surround sound Opus correctly or at all. VLC is still using FFmpeg 4.x. We're on FFmpeg 8.x these days

I can not even use VLC to take screenshots of videos I encode because the color rendering on everything is wrong. BT.709 is very much NOT new and predates VLC itself.

And you can say "VLC is easy to install and the UI is easy." Yeah so is IINA for macOS, Celluloid for Linux, and MPV.net for Windows which all use MPV underneath. Other better and easy video players exist today.

We are not in 2012 anymore. We are no longer just using AVC/H264 + AAC or AC-3 (Dolby Audio) MP4s for every video. We are playing back HEVC, VP9, and AV1 with HDR metadata in MKV/webm cnotainers with audio codecs like Opus or HE-AACv3 or TrueHD in surround channels, BT.2020 colorspaces. VLC's current release is made of libraries and FFmpeg versions that predate some of these codecs/formats/metadata types. Even the VLC 4.0 nightly alpha is not keeping up. 4.0 is several years late to releasing and when it does, it may not even matter.

BoppreH 2 days ago||
I'm also surprised by people's defense of VLC. It's a nice project, especially when it was created, but the bugs I regularly encountered were numerous and in seemingly common use cases.

Here's a post I made 4 years ago describing each bug, shortly before switching to MPV: https://www.reddit.com/r/VLC/comments/pm6y1n/too_many_bugs_o...

amelius 2 days ago|||
My main problem with VLC is that when I accidentally hit the wrong key on my keyboard (usually in the dark, because that's how I watch movies), it is quite often almost impossible to get the settings back to what they were without restarting the player.
morshu9001 2 days ago||
Keyboard shortcuts with no modifier key involved are evil. Even Gmail has those.
Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1 day ago|||
Funny how you say "evil" but all I can hear is "vi".
morshu9001 1 day ago||
Oh it's fair game there. I love vi/vim
tau255 15 hours ago|||
Thunderbird has no modifier shortcuts too.
centur 1 day ago|||
Honestly, I'm absolutely not. I still vividly remember those times when we have to install codecs separately. And every month something something new and incompatible pops up on a radar, which sent all users on a wild hunt for that exact codec and instructions how to tweak it so the funny clip could play. Oh dear I'm not loking back to times od all versions of divX xVid, matroska, mkv avi wma, mp4, mp3 vba ogg and everything else, all thos cryptic incantations to summon a non-broken video frame on a modern hardvare, for everyone but few people in anime community who drove that insanity on everyone else. I'll die on a hill of VLC, despite all its flaws, because it gave an escape route for everyone else - if you don't give a F about "pixel perfect lowest overhead most progressive compression that is still a scientific experiment but we want to encode a clip with it" and simply want to view a video - vlc was the way. Nothing else made so much good to users who simply want to watch a video and not be extatic about its perfect colour profile, loosless sound and smallest size possible.

All other players lost their plot when they tried to steer users into some madness pit of millions tweaks and configurations that somehow excites aughors of those players and some cohort of people who encode videos that way.

I istall vlc very single time, because this is a blunt answer to all video playing problems, even if its imperfect. And walked away from ever single player who tries to sell me something better asking to configure 100 parameters I've no idea about. Hope this answers the question why VLC won.

jaapz 2 days ago|||
> It is the Firefox of media players.

So... the better option?

SirMaster 2 days ago|||
https://mpv.io/
drtgh 2 days ago||
Unofficial third-party builds from unknown github accounts; I think that you are really brave if you installed it.

And the first party ones available there are for testing, with missing features :/

We do not have this kind of problems with VLC.

socalgal2 2 days ago||
Did you miss the github builds or just discounting them?
econ 2 days ago||
What happened to downloading an installer from the official website? Are we sending grandma to GitHub now?
napkin 2 days ago||
Things are complicated. As a policy, I wouldn’t want to encourage grandma to be going to any web site to download software. Grandma should probably stick to the App Store. And personally, I would way rather install github builds than downloads from ‘official’/independently maintained web sites. Especially in the case of free / open source projects, sometimes cash constrained. Security is hard.

I’m not super knowledgeable about modern video players- I do like Infuse, which is in the App Store.

BloodyIron 1 day ago||||
> So... the better option?

Depends on what you care about.

For me, Firefox really lacks in handling of very large amounts of tabs and a lot of features that I specifically use Vivaldi for. Does that mean Vivaldi is the best? Yes and No, it depends on what you care about.

Is Firefox still a good browser? As far as I know, yes. But I don't use it much at all because it doesn't give _me_ what I want and need.

And yes, I do actually need a large amount of tabs open at the same time very regularly due to the depth of references I work against in my line of work. That's on top of saving lots of bookmarks and syncing them via nextCloud.

You like Firefox? Great, keep at it.

You want to see features that aren't necessarily elsewhere? Consider trying Vivaldi and seeing if it's great for you or not.

Let's not act like browser selection is binary, because it isn't, and it really hasn't been since netscape navigator was new. And even then it's up for debate.

izacus 1 day ago||||
This kind of insulting quip, refusing to engage with the body of the post, is really inappropriate. Can you please not behave like an arse?
Drybones 2 days ago|||
IDK where you have been for the last decade, but Firefox has not been the better option since Chromium was made

Disliking Google Chrome proper is one thing, but Chromium is superior in every way. Rendering, features, speed, memory management

foresto 2 days ago|||
Chromium has more than a few flaws that I'm sure you can discover if you choose to. Here's an incident that I cannot forgive:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786909

BloodyIron 1 day ago||
Show me a piece of software without flaws and I'll show you either a liar, or perhaps the program "ping".
lelanthran 2 days ago||||
> Chromium is superior in every way. Rendering, features, speed, memory management

Being faster, prettier and using less memory[1] is pointless if the browser won't let me block all ads.

I mean, it's like comparing a turd sandwich made with expensive exotic bread, and a cheese sandwich made with cheap grocery store break.

Sure, the one has great exotic bread, but I don't want the turd it comes with.

So, yeah, it actually doesn't matter how much prettier, faster or smaller web pages are with Chrome, at least FF lets me (currently) block almost anything.

---------------------------------------

[1] Chrome beats out FF in exactly one of those, and it's not the memory or speed. Turns out ads take up a lot of RAM, and slow down pages considerably.

pseidemann 2 days ago||||
The person is asking for the better option.
drtgh 2 days ago||
I coincide with the person, by the moment Firefox is the better option, the comparative form is confusing.
savolai 2 days ago|||
-1 tab containers

Please elaborate on ”features”.

Does chromium have non-google sync?

Drybones 2 days ago||
Chromium based browsers have non-google sync. Vivaldi implements their own encrypted sync service and I believe Brave does as well.

But I am talking about browser feature support, not stuff that can supplemented with an extension like a password manager.

Firefox has poor support for modern web features including video processing and encoding which makes it very bad at web conferencing/video calls or in-page streaming.

Firefox's developer tools and console is also much worse and missing important features.

Other features Firefox is missing or has poor support for compared to Chromium are WebGPU, WebTransport, Periodic Background Sync, and parts of WebRTC. Plus various APIs for web serial, badging, and Web Share are missing partial or full support.

Firefox still doesn't have functional HDR for images and videos including AV1.

savolai 2 days ago||
Oh I thought you meant actual chromium browser.

Those seem rather marginal features from my pov but of course once you need them, you need them, I guess.

savolai 1 day ago||
Also, for context: ’Some truth here, but it’s overstated.

Firefox does WebRTC fine. AV1 works, simulcast works, calls and streaming work. Chrome still leads on performance tweaks and extra APIs, but “very bad” is just wrong.

DevTools aren’t “much worse.” Different, less popular, sometimes better (CSS, network). Chrome wins mainly because everyone targets it first.

API gaps are real but the list is sloppy. WebGPU and WebTransport exist in Firefox now, just behind on advanced bits. Periodic Background Sync barely matters. WebRTC support keeps closing the gap.

Missing stuff like Web Serial, Badging, fuller Web Share? True, and mostly intentional.

HDR is the weakest claim that actually holds. AV1 decode exists, but HDR support still feels half-done.

TL;DR: Firefox lags Chromium in breadth and polish, not in core modern web capability. Calling it bad for video or modern apps doesn’t match reality.” ’

nticompass 2 days ago|||
MPC-HC is still a thing? I remember installing that (and K-Lite Codec Pack) on Windows, back in the day. Haven't used, or even thought about MPC-HC in years.
Lammy 2 days ago|||
I still use K-Lite Codec Pack on all of my Windows systems: https://github.com/Microsoft/winget-pkgs/tree/master/manifes...
perching_aix 2 days ago||||
Yes: https://github.com/clsid2/mpc-hc
Jolter 2 days ago||
Is anyone else annoyed about how this is not very discoverable? The first Google hit for ”MPC-HC” is the web site saying ”MPC-HC is not under development since 2017. Please switch to something else.” What happened? Has the maintainer refused to hand over the project, or something?
perching_aix 2 days ago||
Nobody took over maintenance at the time. Eventually clsid2 picked it up, and it has been maintained by him ever since.
Drybones 2 days ago|||
It still is, but it's not as recommended over MPV but I'm not as familiar with what it decodes and renders wrong in comparison, but it is still suggested over VLC in Anime circles.
thegrim000 2 days ago|||
I've really felt gaslit over the last decade from people continuing to promote VLC as such a great thing, when I've had nothing bug bugs, crashes, glitches, issues with it for a full decade now (on Linux). From 10-25 years ago I definitely used it for everything, all the time, but now even the default Ubuntu totem video player (or whatever it's called) seems like 2-3 times as likely to be able to play a random video file without an issue as VLC does.
COAGULOPATH 2 days ago|||
Thanks, I didn't realize the situation was so dire.
xnx 2 days ago|||
MPV is not user friendly, but I was very impressed by the gapless playback.
Numerlor 1 day ago|||
I did recently see someone compare mpv and vlc on a 8k HDR @ 60fps file with mpv really lagging while vlc doing it fine. I could confirm the mpv lags but don't have vlc, so not sure if it's just better in that specific case or did something like no actual HDR
arch1t3cht 1 day ago||
This may just be because mpv has higher-quality default settings for scaling and tonemapping. Try mpv with profile=fast, maybe. To properly compare mpv's and VLC's performance you'd need to fully match all settings across both players.
Numerlor 1 day ago||
It was with the fast profile using both software and hardware deciding, important detail I forgot was that the video was av1. Don't have the link to it now but it was from jellyfin's test files
monster_truck 2 days ago|||
Honestly the pastebin link needs to be re-submitted and frontpaged.

I even encounter this in professional a/v contexts! If VLC can read and decode your stream, that's a good sign that most things should able to view it, but it absolutely should not be trusted as any measure of doing things correctly/to spec.

jiggawatts 2 days ago|||
> It is the Firefox of media players.

Ironically, my main gripe about Firefox is that it has no support for HDR content and its colour management is disabled by default… and buggy when enabled.

morshu9001 2 days ago||
Lack of HDR is my second favorite feature
ifh-hn 2 days ago|||
Knowing nothing about video stuff my only question from this is: what's wrong with Firefox?
usefulposter 2 days ago|||
Many HN readers won't be familiar with the fansub culture that this writeup originates from, so sharing a helpful resource in case anyone is interested in learning more:

ENTRY LEVEL FANSUBBERS' BEGINNERS GUIDE:

https://github.com/zeriyu/fansub-guide

Hope this helps anyone interested in the ancient art of subbing Japanese animes!

Be sure to read every link thoroughly, and don't worry, there are more link lists linked from the above link list.

Arigatou gomenasai!

ambicapter 2 days ago||
Wait, so this categorical dismissal of VLC is just coming from a specific fandom community?
sho_hn 2 days ago|||
To be fair, it's a fandom community with high requirements and standards toward video players and that really knows its stuff.
SSLy 2 days ago||||
VLC also fails playing live action media too, if that clears up anything.
RulerOf 2 days ago||||
I generally dislike anime and tend to reflexively roll my eyes when someone suggests I watch it, but I've been complaining about VLC for at least 15 years.

Its main claim to fame is that it "plays everything," and it rose to prominence in the P2P file sharing era. During this time, Windows users often installed so many "codec packs" that DirectShow would eventually just have an aneurysm any time you tried to play something. VLC's media stack ignored DirectShow, and would still play media on systems where it was broken.

We're past that problem, but the solution has stuck around because "installing codecs will break my computer, but installing VLC won't" is the zombie that just won't die.

M95D 2 days ago|||
The only one who cares, apparently...
userbinator 2 days ago||
It works well enough, and I doubt the majority of VLC users are watching anime with it.
embedding-shape 2 days ago||
It seems really weirdly written. It's written with a lot of authority, like saying "Don't use VLC" and "Don't use Y" yet provides no reasoning for those things. Just putting "Trust me, just don't" doesn't suddenly mean I trust the author more, it probably has the opposite effect. Some sections seem to differ based on if the reader knows/doesn't know something, but I thought the article was supposed to be for the latter.

Would have been nice if these "MUST KNOW BEFORE" advises were structured in a way so one could easily come back and use it as a reference, like just a list, but instead it's like a over-dinner conversation with your "expert and correct but socially-annoying" work colleague, who refuses to elaborate on the how's and why's, but still have very strong opinions.

joe_the_user 2 days ago||
Yeah, as far as I know, to understand video formats, you need to understand encode-decode process, how film/video editor operate normally (keeping in mind film/video editing has levels from $100s to way beyond me), history, how optics and cameras work, etc. Then particular choices and confusions can be understood.

This indeed just seems to jump-in in the middle and give a bunch very specific recommendation. I have no idea if they're good or bad recommendations but this doesn't seem like the way to teach good procedures.

astrange 2 days ago||
There are not very many recommendations in this article, but they're good.
embedding-shape 2 days ago||
Wish I knew which ones were applicable to me, but without any reasoning, these "recommendations" are as good as random tweets with factoids.
astrange 1 day ago||
Well, I just told you they're good, so now you know.
embedding-shape 1 day ago||
Yeah, based on your comment I learnt as much as the original article, which is basically nothing. So thank you :)
eduction 2 days ago|||
And? It’s a GitHub gist not an oreilly book. Context.
embedding-shape 2 days ago||
So? This was just a HN comment, not a review of a paper.
Etheryte 2 days ago|||
Exactly, very hard to take the rest of it seriously after the VLC bit. VLC has literally never left me hanging, across I don't know how many decades. It's gonna take more than a trust me bro to challenge that.
ffsm8 2 days ago|||
You're talking about VLC for video playback, TFA is taking about video editing.

VLC ignores a lot for it's outstanding video playback support, which is great if you want the playback too just work... But that's the player perspective, not the editing/encoding

LiamPowell 2 days ago|||
While VLC is excellent at playing every format under the sun, it's not good at playing all those formats correctly. Off the top of my head:

- Transfer functions are just generally a mess but are close enough that most people don't notice they're wrong. Changing the render engine option will often change how the video looks.

- Some DV profiles cause videos to turn purple or green.

- h.264 left and right crops are both applied as left crops that are summed together which completely breaks many videos. They could just ignore this metadata but from what I've heard their attitude is that a broken implementation is better than no implementation.

zenmac 2 days ago||||
The author did mention to use MPV, which is much much lightweight than VLC. Being using it as default for quite some times now.
eviks 2 days ago|||
what are you talking about? Of course it's only about playback just like the other 2 alternatives

> single best media player out there ... VLC is not recommended.

ffsm8 2 days ago||
Literally the first sentence

> Hanging out in subtitling and video re-editing communities, I see my fair share of novice video editors and video encoders, and see plenty of them make the classic beginner mistakes when it comes to working with videos.

Seriously, you quoted pretty much the only sentence in the whole article that's about plain playback, and even in that bullet point, the following sentence mentions hardcoding subtitles.

eviks 2 days ago||
Literally don't stop at the first sentence!!!

> It turns out that reading the (f.) manual actually helps a lot!

The non-recommendation of VLC vs mpc/mpv is literally for playback as I quoted! MPC also doesn't do any encoding, yet it's recommended

> the following sentence mentions hardcoding subtitles.

And that sentence starts with "Apart from simply watching the video" to tell you the same thing the previous sentence told you - that comparison where VLC was not receommended was about playback, not editing

ffsm8 2 days ago||
Yes, I think everyone, including the author of the article will agree that you've quoted the one sentence thats about playback. I agreed on that from the beginning as well. After all, after you've modified a video file, you will want to check if it looks as desired. You want a video player for that, ideally one that doesn't ignore things for improved compatibility.

The point was that the rest of the article wasn't and if you unironically can't tell that, then you should seriously train your reading comprehension.

ErroneousBosh 2 days ago||||
VLC is great for playing stuff back, but can produce some horribly incorrect video files especially if you're dealing with stuff for editing.

There's a reason why VLC isn't used in broadcast stuff and ffmpeg is.

rfl890 2 days ago||||
VLC has always caused problems for me when seeking backwards (graphical glitches). mpv has never caused any issues in this regard.
my65thaccount 2 days ago||
VLC and mpv literally use the same underlying codec library. (As well as ffmpeg.)
homebrewer 2 days ago|||
Have you tried both? mpv is able to play high resolution HEVC videos backwards at real time by holding the "previous frame" key. VLC can't reliably jump backwards even at second intervals, forget about reverse playback.
astrange 2 days ago||||
VLC makes a choice not to seek backwards to keyframes, which means you get video corruption.

Seeking is surprisingly difficult. Many container formats don't support it at all, because they don't have indexes, and so it's easy to mess up playback or lose A/V sync by trying it. Constructing the index is about as hard as decoding the entire file too.

eviks 2 days ago||||
So? Here is the post where VLC dev explains why you can't seek 1 frame back (you can do that in MPC and mpv) https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=126609&start=...
arch1t3cht 2 days ago|||
libav{format,codec,...} are just libraries for demuxing and decoding video. There is huge variability in how those libraries are used, let alone how the video is displayed (which needs scaling, color space conversions, tonemapping, subtitle rendering, handling playback timing, etc. etc.). mpv also has its own demuxer for matroska files, since libavformat's is very limited [1].

[1] https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/libavformat-mkv-check...

MallocVoidstar 2 days ago||||
IIRC VLC used the wrong primaries for converting to RGB for a long time (years) even after it being reported to them as wrong
gruez 2 days ago||
>even after it being reported to them as wrong

Source?

linolevan 2 days ago||
I'm not the OP of the claim (and I love VLC) but maybe they're referring to this early 2018 issue: https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/19723 which seems to be being actively worked on.

There's also https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc/-/issues/25651 but that's an off by one error so likely not really relevant to video playback for the average user.

knowitnone3 2 days ago|||
VLC has left me hanging many times. It's play a file wrong or not played at all while mpv plays it no problem. Do not use vlc.
ramesh31 2 days ago||
technically correct is the best kind. who cares if it's obnoxious? take the opinions and agree or disagree with them.
dylan604 2 days ago|||
How do you know it is technically correct without explanation. It's not much different from someone getting blown off for being annoying because they constantly question simple answers when seeking better understanding. I was fortunate to work with a group of engineers when I was very young that accepted my constant use of "why?" not as disrespectful questioning but realized I was actually learning so they naturally just provided more details leading to less "why?" being asked. This eventually got to the point where I would ask a question, and the answer would be to read a specific book on the shelf. This was way before the internet. I received a better education on the job than I ever was going to get in school.

So no, I'm not just going to take an opinion without more information. I don't change my mind just on say so.

pomian 2 days ago||
Why? Is the most simple test of a valid explanation. If you don't need to ask why any more, you've answered the question. Sometimes it takes 3 or 5 white in a row!
snakeboy 2 days ago||||
It works if you know the person and have a baseline for how much confidence you give their opinions. If it's just a random person on the internet, they need to support their argument.
alwa 2 days ago||
I mean—they can. They don’t need to give more than they’re already giving we anonymous strangers for free. For all we know, this person wrote this for people they encounter personally or professionally, and we’re just incidentally benefitting.

We as readers should gauge their credibility for ourselves, whether by reputation or by checking the claims. I don’t know who wrote it but it seems basically correct, consistent, and concisely argued to me.

jaapz 2 days ago||||
How can I disagree when they don't provide a reasoning behind why something is the better option?
yaur 2 days ago|||
When we switched from x264 to hardware based encoders it saved something like 90% on our customers' power and cooling bills.

So while this essay might be "technically correct" in some very narrow sense the author is speaking with far more authority than they have the experience to justify, which is what makes it obnoxious in the first place.

mrguyorama 2 days ago|||
The author is directing this at complete noobs who are subbing their first anime and you are complaining that it is not applicable to running a datacenter?
knowitnone3 2 days ago||||
the author never talked about power savings or cooling bills, they talked about quality so they are still correct.
encom 2 days ago|||
This is already mentioned in the article. Software vs. hardware is a tradeoff. x264 produces higher quality (perceptual or compression efficiency) video, at the expense of latency.
EdNutting 2 days ago||
Interesting read, it’s a shame the ranty format makes it 3x longer than necessary.

Not sure why it takes a dump on VLC - it’s been the most stable and friendly video player for Windows for a long time (it matters that ordinary users, like school teachers, can use it without special training. I don’t care how ideological you are about Linux or video players or whatever lol).

throwaway2046 2 days ago||
VLC works great on Linux too! It's one of the few programs where I expect the exact same look and feel regardless of the underlying OS.

mpv is okay but its complete reliance on command line flags and manually written config files makes it a bore.

embedding-shape 2 days ago|||
> where I expect the exact same look and feel regardless of the underlying OS

Slightly ironic, as I think a new UI is underway (and coming soon?). Not sure what version it's planned for, but I think some beta has it enabled by default already, was surprised when I saw it. So the consistent UI is here today, and will be in the future, but there will be a slice of time where different users will run different versions where some switched to the new UI, and some haven't. But it'll hopefully be a brief period, and of course it's still cross-platform :)

heavyset_go 2 days ago||||
No it doesn't, its Wayland support is a mess, its codec support is lackluster, and somehow the experience is worse when you use VA-API hardware decoding.
binarygit 2 days ago|||
VLC is pretty much one of the default things I download on any of my computers. Right now I use mac and it's my default video player here too!
jamesnorden 2 days ago|||
I don't believe it's the case anymore, but it was very common for VLC to cause video corruption (see [1] for example of what it looked like) in the past, the hate just stuck around and I don't think it's ever going away.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/glitch_art/comments/144vjl/vlc_star...

EdNutting 2 days ago|||
13 years since that post and this is the first time I’m hearing of this long-past issue.

Haters gonna hate I guess.

hhh 2 days ago||
I still have this problem every day.
nickthegreek 2 days ago|||
It has never been very common for VLC to cause video corruption.
howenterprisey 2 days ago|||
In the anime fan subbing community (which this document is likely from), it's very common to hate on VLC for a variety of imagined (and occasionally real but marginal) issues.
bcye 2 days ago||
Why is that?
amlib 2 days ago|||
At least for the real part there was the great 10-bit encoding "switch off" at around 2012 where it seemed like the whole anime encoding scene decided to move into encoding just about everything with "10-bit h264" in order to preserve more detail at the same bitrate. VLC didn't have support for it and for a long time (+5 years?) it remained without proper support for that. Every time you tried playing such files they would exhibit corruption at some interval. It was like watching a scrambled cable channel with brief moments of respite.

The kicker is that many, many other players broke. Very few hardware decoders could deal with this format, so it was fairly common to get dropped frames due to software decoding fallback even if your device or player could play it. And, about devices, if you were previously playing h264 anime stuff on your nice pre-smart tv, forget about doing so with the 10-bit stuff.

Years passed and most players could deal with 10-bit encoding, people bought newer devices that could hardware decode it and so on, but afaik VLC remained incompatible a while longer.

Eventually it all became mutt because the anime scene switched to h265...

astrange 2 days ago||
8-bit and 10-bit almost give digital video too much credit. Because of analog backwards compatibility, 8-bit video only uses values 16-235, so it's actually like… 7.8 bit.

It's nowhere near enough codes, especially in darker regions. That's one reason 10-bit is so important, another is that h264 had unnecessary rounding issues and adding bit depth hid them.

zdw 2 days ago|||
Mostly that VLC has had noticeable issues with displaying some kinds of subtitles made with Advanced SubStation (especially ones taking up much of the frame, or that pan/zoom), which MPV-based players handle better.

If you want a MPV-based player GUI on macOS, https://github.com/iina/iina is quite good.

arch1t3cht 2 days ago||
Note that, while I haven't had time to investigate them myself yet, IINA is known to have problems with color spaces (and also uses libmpv, which is quite limited at the moment and does not support mpv's new gpu-next renderer). Nowadays mpv has first-party builds for macOS, which work very well in my opinion, so I'd recommend using those directly.
jandrese 2 days ago|||
He's talking about using VLC for transcoding or encoding, where the functionality has lots of issues and is kind of bolted on the side. VLC for playing is totally fine.
astrange 2 days ago||
No it isn't, VLC plays everything back slightly incorrectly in all sorts of ways, the subtitle rendering and colorspace handling isn't compliant at all.
krackers 2 days ago||
VLC uses libass for .ass subtitle rendering as far as I can see, shouldn't it be the same?
arch1t3cht 2 days ago||
One difference I can immediately point to is that VLC always renders subtitles at the video's storage resolution and then up/downscales all bitmaps returned by libass individually before blending them. This can create ugly ringing artifacts on text.

I've also seen many reports of it lagging or choking on complex subtitles, though I haven't had the time to investigate that myself yet.

Either way, it's not as simple as "both players use libass." Libass handles the rasterization and layout of subtitles, but players need to handle the color space mangling and blending, and there can be big differences there.

EdNutting 2 days ago|||
Follow-up comment: I love how the author’s one brief take-down shot at VLC is currently the dominant criticism in the HN comments (inc. mine). 10,000+ words and the entire lot is being questioned because of one dubious throwaway comment about VLC.

A lesson to learn in that.

Lol

ryandrake 2 days ago||
There was an article[1] yesterday where a single poor word choice derailed much of the comment section with rat-holing and nitpicking until the author revised the article. HN's gotta HN.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46413256

gruez 2 days ago||
If you're talking about the use of the word "hover", I think that was quite justified, given that it was a critical element of the claim, and the poor wording made it neigh impossible to reproduce the author's claim.
Forgeties79 2 days ago||
It seems to me he’s talking about using it for re-encoding/conversion as part of your editing workflow and is not really talking about its media playback capabilities. In that sense he is very much correct.
happytoexplain 2 days ago||
I'm always amazed when I see how many people are unfamiliar with VLC hate. It was notorious (to the point of it being a popular meme topic) for video artifacts, slow/buggy seeking, bloated/clumsy UI/menus, having very little format support out of the box, and buggy subtitles. I assume nowadays it's much better, since it seems popular, but its reputation will stick with me forever.
gruez 2 days ago||
>It was notorious (to the point of it being a popular meme topic) for [...] having very little format support out of the box

???

I thought the meme was that it played basically everything? At least compared to windows media player or whatever.

The other items I can't say I've noticed, but then again I only play the most common of files (eg. h.264/h.265 with english subtitles in a mkv) so maybe it's something that only happens with unusual formats/encodes.

edit: based on other comments (eg. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46465349), it looks like it might indeed be caused by uncommon files that I haven't encountered.

littlestymaar 2 days ago|||
> I thought the meme was that it played basically everything? At least compared to windows media player or whatever.

Yes, that was in the 2000s though. During the 2010 VLC started falling behind because its shortcomings overweighted its capabilities.

morshu9001 2 days ago|||
Pretty sure VLC can play /dev/urandom
dooglius 2 days ago|||
What year was this? I don't know there has ever been a normal format it doesn't support, and I think this has been the case for at least 15 years.
dotancohen 2 days ago|||
Up until just last month I had never had a problem with VLC. But I don't pirate content so maybe I just hadn't encountered the problematic files. However, recording voice notes in Opus format on my phone, it turns out that VLC has a bug playing Opus files at certain bit rates. However for me this is easily worked around by just using MPV.
u_sama 2 days ago||||
I dropped VLC circa 2019 for all the reasons mentioned and ever since I use exclusively MPV, both on Windows and Linux.

So at least from those times

mywittyname 2 days ago|||
The only current VLC issue I encounter regularly is the subtitles one. I'm a lite video user, so I'm not sure the technical details, but some subtitle formats render black-on-black in VLC, but work fine on Plex/TV.

I've also encountered the odd "this video is corrupted" error that persists even after re-encoding. But I've never thought to troubleshoot to see if it's a VLC, and instead just get a different version.

jlarocco 2 days ago|||
I've never had problems with VLC, and I've used it off and on for 20 years.

I don't doubt that there's some obscure, elite videophile hate towards it, but I'm hardly going to stop using it because a few random internet strangers hate on it.

perching_aix 2 days ago||
Kinda the problem with anecdotes isn't it? :)

My own anecdotal experience with VLC was that while every update fixed something, they also broke something in return - and these updates were common. This got annoying enough at some point for me to hop ships, and so I switched to mpc-hc and never looked back.

I've since also tried (and keep trying) the to-me still newfangled mpv, but I'm not a fan of the GUI or the keybinds. I know it can be customized, but that's not something I'm interested in doing. I know there are alternative frontends as well, but I checked and they're not to my liking either. So I mostly just use it for when mpc-hc gives out, such as really badly broken media files, or anything HDR.

aiahs 2 days ago|||
Out of pure curiosity, what kind of things were you VLC using for, for it to break so often? I'm almost never doing anything with video, so I'm completely clueless in this field.
perching_aix 2 days ago||
I don't recall my issues being media file or workload specific [0]. It was specifically just general frontend stuff I believe [1]. Although I should probably also mention that I don't remember much to begin with, other than my decidedly negative conclusion that made me switch players, and the overall personal narrative around that. It's been quite a few years if not a whole decade.

[0] Doesn't mean there weren't any, but then I was not doing anything special. Just watched anime, listened to music, streamed YouTube. Hardly an extraordinary workload for VLC, or indeed any media player in general.

[1] I remember them changing around the volume slider widget back and forth ad nauseam for example, and that becoming in some particular way defective that I cannot recall.

aiahs 2 days ago||
Thanks for the reply, yeah that's interesting, I remember also having issues with VLC as a kid (I'm in my late 20's now), but I always chalked it up to me being a noob and not knowledgeable, I wonder retrospectively how much of that were actual me-issues and how much VLC-issues. Recently one of my parents wanted to play a DVD via VLC which did not work, where the issues ultimately was missing DVD libraries which apparently can't be shipped in Ubuntu due to licensing issues (libdvdcss). 12 year old me wouls not be able to debug this issue to be honest.
jlarocco 2 days ago|||
And you think everybody else should stop using it because you had problems?

I'll make up my own mind on it.

perching_aix 2 days ago|||
Do you think everyone else should start or continue using it because you never had problems?

Let's be kind. Clearly not what either of us were thinking or intended to convey.

knowitnone3 2 days ago||||
You should make up your own mind. why bother reading comments at all? why bother reading reviews? I bet you watch every movie and never comment on how good or bad they are because you'll be telling everybody else what to do and that would be hypocritical. I wonder how you stumbled upon VLC in the first place - perhaps you read about it somewhere and followed that advice?
gpvos 2 days ago|||
Where did perching_aix say that?
EdNutting 2 days ago|||
For a long time it was the only graphical user-friendly option for non-technical Windows users that had decent support for a wide range of formats. I don’t know about its early years, but friends, family and I have been using it for a good 15+ years without encountering the issues folks are describing in these comments.

It seems there’s a lot of open-source lovers that haven’t also accepted that bugs can get fixed, projects can improve, etc. They’d rather treat a project as though it was stuck at version 0 from 20 something years ago. Deeply ironic.

miladyincontrol 2 days ago|||
Agree. Never mind how far they were behind on the more power user options like scaling, dealing with mismatches in video framerate and monitor refresh rate, etc.

Havent used it in ages, but a decade ago it felt a joke for all the video artifacts and subtitle glitches.

The one part that does get me some about people who blindly still praise it as THE video player at least outside of more technically inclined spaces like this, is so many people assume it exists as some monolith. Clearly library free, entirely the original work of VideoLAN, gracious they be that they give it all away for free.

mtVessel 2 days ago|||
| I assume nowadays it's much better...

It's not, but the Linux weenies won't hear of it. Maybe it's a great choice on Linux, but on Windows, it often renders things much worse than stock WMP (both legacy and modern). Videos with a lot of motion play especially poorly.

But, yeah, it opens everything.

gpvos 2 days ago||
Do you have sources for that? As far as I know VLC has actually always been famous for supporting basically every format.
astrange 2 days ago||
ffmpeg supports every format. ffmpeg wrappers don't need add much value in order to also do this.

(Lots of corner cases apply and VLC developers do assist ffmpeg, host a conference, etc.)

arch1t3cht 2 days ago||
Original post author here.

It seems like the main criticisms I am getting for this article are because it's escaped past its main target audience, so let me clarify a few things.

This post was born out of me hanging out in communities where people would make their own shortened edits of TV series and, in particular, anime, often to cut out filler or padding. Many people there would make many of the mistakes mentioned in the post, in particular reencoding at every step without knowing how to actually control efficiency/quality. I spent a lot of time helping out individual people one-on-one, but eventually wrote the linked article to collect all of my advice in one place. That way I (or other people I know) can just link to it like "Read the section on containers here," and then answer any follow-up questions, instead of having to explain from scratch each time.

> It seems really weirdly written. / ranty format

So, yes, it does. It was born out of one-to-one explanations on Discord. I wouldn't be surprised if it may seem condescending to a more advanced reader, but if I rant about some point to hammer it down it's because it's a mistake I've seen people make often enough that it has to be reenforced this much. I wouldn't write a professional article this way.

The other point many people seem to get hung up about is the "hate" on VLC. Let me clarify that I do not "hate" VLC at all, I just don't recommend it. VLC is only mentioned once in the entire page, exactly because I didn't want to slot in an intermission purely to list a bunch of VLC issues. I felt like that would qualify more as "hate."

That said, yes, pretty much anyone I know in the fansubbing or encoding community does not recommend VLC because of various assorted issues. The rentry post [1] is often shared to list those, though I don't like how it does not give sources or reproducible examples for the issues it lists. I really do want to go through it and make proper samples and bug reports for all of these issues, I just didn't have the time yet.

Let me also clarify that I have nothing against the VLC developers. VideoLan does great work even outside of VLC, and every interaction I've had with their developers has been great. I just do not recommend the tool.

[1] https://rentry.co/vee-ell-cee

mmcclure 2 days ago||
Shameless plug for anyone that wants to go deeper on specific video topics: I've been organizing a conference for video devs for 11 years now and there's a wealth of info in the recordings. A talk from the most recent one on hacking a Sega Genesis to stream video might not seem that practical, but there were some fascinating bits on compression (or, rather, not being able to use actual compression). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZdxdpw-3nI

If folks want to get involved, there's also a chat community that's pretty active: https://video-dev.org.

coppsilgold 2 days ago||
MPV plugins can actually do frame-perfect cuts and crops for you (+ whatever ffmpeg filters you want), something that would generally require the hassle of opening editing software. And those cuts can be done in h264 lossless (for additional processing later at no additional quality loss from this step).

https://github.com/occivink/mpv-scripts

There is also a way to losslessly cut preserving the original encoding but you give up the precision of the cuts due to keyframes. The MPV script above can do that too: script-opts/encode_slice.conf

weinzierl 2 days ago||
"Don't use Topaz AI, Anime4k, RealESRGAN, RIFE, etc. Trust me, just don't."

Why? I only know Topaz and I always thought it had its narrow but legitimate uses cases for upscaling and equalizing quality?

perching_aix 2 days ago||
Can't mind read the guy obviously, but the usual motivation that I'm aware of is that you pretty much fuck over everyone else that comes later. Upscalers improve over time, but in terms of distribution, recency bias is strong and visual treats are inviting. So when those much better upscalers eventually come around, what's more likely to still be available is the secondary source you distributed, which is already upscaled once with a then-inferior upscaler. This leads to a form of generational rot.

Other likely explanations are:

- them not liking how these upscalers look: you can imagine if they can nitpick minor differences between different encodes that most people don't notice, they'll hate the glaring artifacts these filters usually produce

- boycotting AI

chrisldgk 1 day ago||
You should read the article.

The reasons stated against upscaling were that (re-)encoding video files should generally be done in a way that preserves as much of the original information and intent as possible. AI upscalers add information where there is none, thus modifying the video in a way that goes against that goal.

ErroneousBosh 2 days ago|||
Topaz looks bloody awful. Instead of big blocky upscaled pixels you've got weird artifacty "oil painting effect" smeary blobs.
echelon 2 days ago||
[flagged]
cnntth 2 days ago||
OP makes zero comments about content generation, and the complaint is about upscaling introducing artifacts not in the original source. No different than hating a bad 4k remaster / sharpening.
echelon 2 days ago||
That advice is not universal, and without context it's simply wrong.

You wouldn't upscale a classic film in this way, but there are plenty of low-resolution shots that benefit. Especially with VGA resolution renders and modern AI workflows.

Just looking at the Topaz marketing, you can see a lot of places where it indeed does work. And 20-year industry professionals are using it today for their day jobs.

If you want to say "don't upscale a classic film in Topaz", say that. Because context makes the advice correct. This blanket "do not use" statement is flat out wrong.

unloader6118 2 days ago||
In any case, blindly apply upscaling is just wrong ..

You apply it to where it is needed. Not every scene need the same treatment.

echelon 2 days ago||
The article simply says "Trust me, just don't."
littlestymaar 2 days ago||
No it doesn't. It says “don't, Unless you're extremely surgical with it and know exactly what you're doing”.

Which is a sensible piece of advice.

embedding-shape 2 days ago||
> Don't use Topaz AI, Anime4k, RealESRGAN, RIFE, etc. Trust me, just don't.

Is what the submission says about Topaz and similar.

> Applying any kind of post-processing[4]

Is what the footnote you quoted is linked to.

littlestymaar 2 days ago||
There's no mistake, “Topaz and similar” == “any kind of postprocessing”.
embedding-shape 2 days ago||
Right, but since the "AI upscaling" "advice" is more specific, doesn't that take precedent?

> Do post-processing if you're surgical about it

> Don't do AI upscaling regardless, never do it, and don't even ask why

Is the impression I get from this article.

jokoon 2 days ago||
I wish he talked about avidemux.

It's a simple tool which is great for many things, it has filters and there are most of the formats. I think it uses ffmpeg under the hood.

It's an old tool but it's fine for most things, when ffmpeg is to fastidious to use. ffmpeg is still what I use, but some more complex tasks are just more comfortable with avidemux.

dylan604 2 days ago||
Some of the simple tools might not be using ffmpeg per se, but using the libav or similar libraries. ffmpeg is just a tool built to utilize the functionality of multiple libraries like this.
astrange 2 days ago||
ffmpeg and libavcodec are the same project.
dylan604 2 days ago||
yes. but do you have to include the ffmpeg part to include just the other libraries?
astrange 1 day ago||
No, ffmpeg itself is a pretty small wrapper around them. But the rest are true libraries and not frameworks, so you have to make all kinds of playback decisions yourself. A/V sync is hard.
globnomulous 2 days ago||
> to fastidious

Do you mean "too fussy?"

dylan604 2 days ago||
using a sledge to drive a finishing nail? yes, it's still a hammer and it's still a nail, but still the wrong tool for the job
liampulles 2 days ago|
I remember using Gordian Knot to create avi files from my DVDs back when XviD was the pragmatic method for encoding videos, and the whole goal was to get movies under 700mb so that you could write them to a CD. Avisynth and community filters were largely geared towards undoing all sorts of crap done to an image because artifacts that were relatively unnoticeable on a general CRT television were quite apparent on a computer monitor, as well as to then prepare the video to look good once it has been highly compressed with XviD or DivX.

These days I'm much more inclined to try and transparently encode the source material, tag it appropriately in the media container, and let the player adjust the image on the fly. Though I admit, I still spend hours playing around with Vapoursynth filter settings and AV1 parameters to try and get a good quality/compression ratio.

I have to say that the biggest improvement to the experience of watching my videos was when I got an OLED TV. Even some garbage VHS rip can look interesting when the night sky has been adjusted to true black.

Given the increasing abilities of TVs and processing abilities and feature sets of players, I'm not much persuaded to upgrade my DVD collection to Blu-Ray. Though I admit some of that is that I enjoy the challenge of getting a good video file out of my DVDs.

I partially disagree with the use of ASS subtitles. For a lot of traditional movies, using SRT files is sensible because more players support it, and because it's often sensible to give the player the option of how to render the text (because the viewing environment informs what is e.g. the appropriate font size).

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