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Posted by leglock 4 hours ago

ACM Is Now Open Access(www.acm.org)
291 points | 44 comments
macintux 3 hours ago|
Discussed extensively two weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46313991 (243 comments)
theodpHN 3 hours ago||
As noted above, 'Fully Open Access' does not mean completely free. So, while this change is welcome, there are still a lot of pricing/licensing options:

Corporate https://libraries.acm.org/subscriptions-access/corporate-pri...

Government https://libraries.acm.org/subscriptions-access/government/dl...

Academic Institutions https://libraries.acm.org/acmopen

Individuals https://dl.acm.org/action/publisherEcommerceHelper?doi=10.55...

Also, the 'Basic Edition' provided for free to individuals without institutional/individual accounts, the ACM explains, does not include niceties such as 'Advanced Search' (e.g., filters), which requires an upgrade https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55017806873_c9ba2490c1_b...

vinni2 4 hours ago||
While it is free for readers, authors or author institutions still need to pay to publish the papers.

> Authors from institutions not participating in ACM Open will need to pay an APC to publish their papers, unless they qualify for a financial or discretionary waiver. To find out whether an APC applies to your article, please consult the list of participating institutions in ACM Open and review the APC Waivers and Discounts Policy. Keep in mind that waivers are rare and are granted based on specific criteria set by ACM.

https://cc.acm.org/2026/open-access/

random3 3 hours ago||
Given the current trends in publishing "productivity" that may not be a bad thing.
pm90 2 hours ago||
Is that … a bad thing? I know that peer reviewing takes time (although iirc journals don’t pay reviewers). And there is overhead around publishing which needs to be covered somehow.
shellac 2 hours ago|||
Academic publishing is _notoriously_ profitable. Authorship and the bulk of the editorial process is done by others for free, and these days you often aren't even creating a physical copy. Their overheads are really pretty minimal. What the money (subscriptions and / or APCs) gets is the kudos associated with the publication.

It is reasonable to say: well if they aren't providing anything of value then the market ought to bypass them. The reality is that the publishers have been very canny in protecting their position, and sharp practice is rife.

ufo 2 hours ago||||
They charge a substantial premium for that service. The open access publication fees are typically hundreds or even thousands of dollars per article.

There are other platforms that can offer a similar service for much cheaper, but scientists incentivised to publish on established journals that have a higher impact metrics.

azan_ 2 hours ago|||
Very bad. APC fees typically are much larger than overhead of publishing and publishers have extreme profit margins.
lioeters 3 hours ago||
Let's do a "best of" ACM, to list everyone's favorite articles.

First thing that comes to mind for me are the series of articles presented at HOPL conferences, History of Programming Languages.

HOPL II (1993) https://dl.acm.org/doi/proceedings/10.1145/154766

HOPL III (2007) https://dl.acm.org/doi/proceedings/10.1145/1238844

HOPL IV (2021) https://dl.acm.org/do/10.1145/event-12215/abs/

chaboud 3 hours ago||
I love that I can now just drop the link to this gem:

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1165555.1165556

Aggregability is NP-Hard... Useful the next time someone insists that it's possible to find a "perfect" model for a non-trivial ML problem. (I get this ask 1-2 times per month.)

leoc 26 minutes ago|||
(As others have said, it's probably better to choose the doi.org URL over the dl.acm.org one in general. Three cheers for HOPL!)
kensai 2 hours ago||
Where is HOPL I? Could only find this: https://dl.acm.org/toc/sigplan/1978/13/8
leoc 32 minutes ago||
The HOPL (1) book (ISBN 9780127450407 ) is at https://doi.org/10.1145/800025 (direct link to ACM: https://dl.acm.org/doi/book/10.1145/800025 ) .
jules 4 hours ago||
This is good, but they're now charging authors a publishing fee of over $1000 per article (and they say that that is the discounted price). It is unclear whether this is justified. In my experience publishing scientific articles with ACM, all the real work (such as peer review) is done by volunteers. From what I can tell, ACM just hosts the exact PDF + metadata that authors supply. I suspect that in the future, more journals and conferences will switch to an arXiv-overlay model.
raphman 43 minutes ago||
I have volunteered in various roles for ACM conferences and thus have some insight into ACM's path towards Open Access over the past years.

Just a few things to consider:

- ACM is not a for-profit publisher like Springer or Elsevier. Any profits made from their/our publishing activities subsidize e.g., outreach activities, travel stipends for developing countries, and potential losses from e.g. conferences. - In my experience, ACM is one of the very few publishers in computer science where you can generally trust the published papers. - Keeping a long-term digital library is not just "putting PDFs on a server" but involves a lot of additional costs. The ACM HQ is rather lean IMHO, but there are multiple people involved in developing the Digital Library, handling cases of copyright infringement and plagiarism, supporting volunteers, etc. Also, the ACM DL contains a rising number of video recordings of conference talks, etc. Additionally, there are several contractors to be paid. For example, authors no longer generate their own PDFs but submit the LaTeX/Word manuscripts to a central service (TAPS), developed and operated for ACM by an Indian company, Aptara. - In the past, subscriptions to the ACM Digital Library were a major, stable source of income for ACM. ACM has to be careful to not get into financial trouble by giving away their crown jewels without generating sufficiently stable alternative income sources.

rssoconnor 31 minutes ago||
How does the arXiv manage the same feat for one tenth the cost?
ghshephard 3 hours ago||
I'm pretty sure the primary purpose of the $1000 is just to create some small gate to avoid overloading reviewers/ACM. There are probably other mechanisms that could be used - such as having "recommendations" for from already approved researchers - I think arXiv has something like that.
jules 3 hours ago|||
That isn't the case. Conferences organize their own website to submit articles for review. Volunteers from the conference pre-filter submitted articles for spam, the rest is handled by the review committee. There is no cost to submit. In fact, the eventual cost is often not even mentioned at that point. When the article is accepted for publication, the conference gives authors a link to an ACM website where the authors upload their PDFs. Only after that will the authors be asked to pay the fee (and if you wanted, you could refuse at that point, which presumably means that the conference will eat the loss, or maybe they'll un-publish your article).

I don't think spam is a huge issue. The conference websites and submission portals are niche and random people don't tend to find them or care enough to go through the trouble.

ufo 2 hours ago|||
Not at all; the charge happens at the end of the proccess, after the article was reviewed and accepted for publication.

They charge that much because they can.

elashri 4 hours ago||
> ACM will become one of the very few organizations to offer a large, integrated, and highly curated library of articles and related artifacts openly accessible to all

Is there anything specific about them doing that? Most of the publishers are now moving to open access model (where they charge authors thousands and still not paying for reviewers) so not sure about their claim here.

thechao 3 hours ago|
I was in academia for only a few years. I did a lot of reviewing (one of the chores for graduate students). I don't know what to say, here; there needs to be an economically based gate keeper for publication & review. Otherwise you'll get spammed by hundreds (per graduate student) of crazy-people papers. I was in a niche PL subfield (generic programming in the mid-2000s), and there was this one guy I called "guitar dude" that kept submitting PL papers using "guitar theory". The basis of the theory was an "algorithm" he developed to determine if a number was prime in O(1) (constant!!?) time in the size of the number. He was by far the most determined; he had a "swap" scam he ran to get his papers in. OTOH, submissions to the editor (my PI) numbered in the THOUSANDS, and we only had, like, 35 attendees at GPCE? I can't imagine what Nature or Science have to deal with.

I don't know how submission works for non-Western subsidized countries; but, just wading through the pre-AI submission process was a 50+-hour a week job for one, tiny, niche conference. Making the cost $1000 cuts that down by at least 2 orders of magnitude.

On the flip side ... paying the reviewers just seems like a bad idea? Reviewers need to be skeptical AF. Even the best scientists can throw out turds every now and then.

lmc 3 hours ago||
> paying the reviewers just seems like a bad idea? Reviewers need to be skeptical AF

Sorry, it's not obvious to me - how might payment for reviewers affect their decision making?

thechao 3 hours ago||
Let's be real: graduate students are not paid well. Even a modest payment scheme would be a dramatic boost in their income. What payment schedule would you use for review? By paper? By journal? If it's "by paper" then the students will be motivated to churn through the papers to get paid. I'm not sure what the incentive structure is there, but it doesn't sound right.

I guess the journals could turn around and pay the PI? But, then what? The "reviewers" still aren't being paid; just the PI? The incentive then is for the PI to have as many grad students as possible just reviewing papers. (FREE. MONEY.) If there was ever a dynamic I've been in where one agent doesn't need MORE power, it's the PI-grad-student one.

And, I've not even considered (in depth) the Bad Actors™ in such a situation. I'm just thinking about basic humans humaning along...

lmc 2 hours ago||
Interesting, thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware grad students were so heavily involved in the review process, thought it was more postdocs.
thechao 2 hours ago||
PostDocs review the review. PI's sign off on PD's to make sure they're not idiots. Only big labs have enough PD's to let them do reviews. And, for sure, in CS there's almost no big labs. I was under Bjarne Stroustrup, and the larger umbrella group was probably 40ish staff, in total. That'd be: 3 lead PIs (Bjarne, Nancy, Lawrence); there were a small core of assistant profs (Jaakko, Gabi, etc. — maybe 4 or 5 of them?) There were no PD's: just 25ish grad students, and then a rotating stable of undergrads. We were extremely well funded (JP Morgan, MSFT, the fed).

Our "sister" lab over in computational biology had a few PD's, but was 2x as big, and had easily 5x the funding.

lmc 34 minutes ago||
Cool, thanks for the perspective.
scott_s 3 hours ago||
Great news. They temporarily opened it in 2020 during the pandemic. I argued it should remain so in a post: https://www.scott-a-s.com/acm-digital-library-should-remain-.... I'm glad it's finally happened.
tokai 2 hours ago||
Available to read is not open access. Sadly publishers have completely subverted the Budapest Open Access Initiative definition of open access. It's about rights, not allowed to read the text.
QuantumNomad_ 2 hours ago|
For anyone else wondering what the definition in Budapest Open Access Initiative is:

> By “open access” to this literature, we mean its free availability on the public internet, permitting any users to read, download, copy, distribute, print, search, or link to the full texts of these articles, crawl them for indexing, pass them as data to software, or use them for any other lawful purpose, without financial, legal, or technical barriers other than those inseparable from gaining access to the internet itself

https://www.budapestopenaccessinitiative.org/read/

zkmon 3 hours ago||
More fodder for LLMs? I don't think humans are going to directly consume all that text.
pm90 2 hours ago||
Most researchers publish their papers to arxiv anyway which LLMs can freely access.
tokai 2 hours ago||
Don't they already train on the shadow libraries?
riazrizvi 4 hours ago|
Finally. This might have a material impact on improving professional standards in the industry.

Here’s the actual link to content https://dl.acm.org/

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