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Posted by kevlened 5 days ago

Creators of Tailwind laid off 75% of their engineering team(github.com)
1453 points | 837 commentspage 16
paradite 5 days ago|
I was downvoted to oblivion for posting this comment.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42439059

But I'm merely telling the truth. The fact that people don't like it doesn't change the fact that software engineers are largely replaceable with AI now.

We are seeing the second order effects now that people using AI are not buying software products anymore, leading to layoff of software engineers.

throwaway2026-2 5 days ago||
I feel like you don't need engineers anymore. Bad news for all of us, but its just a fact of life.
system2 5 days ago||
Maybe they don't, since CSS is the easiest to tap into in terms of programming. Database-driven software still heavily relies on seasoned engineers and cannot be messed with AI.

For something basic like CSS, it is true. Ask ChatGPT or Claude Code to come up with any Tailwind template, and it will spit out within seconds for free, and even integrate it into the project effortlessly. This approach does not apply to heavy software such as a comprehensive CRM or another type of CRUD platform.

timeon 5 days ago||
You need engineers but they have to pay for tokens now. Paying subscription just to have ability to do the job.
humanlity 5 days ago||
In my mind, there are two types of businesses in the world: one is not particularly challenging but rather trivial, and the other is very high-tech.

Today, LLMs make the first type of business much harder.

geenat 4 days ago||
Tailwind was far ahead of its time in having an OSS business model overall friendly to users while still being able to fund development (Note: OSS projects like Minio, ScyllaDB and CockroachDB do a far more insidious "open core only", or "crazy licensing fees after x processes/users" , etc). It was great to see OSS succeed financially without ads or punishing users.

"Information should be free", sure, but lets not kid ourselves, these massive new AI companies are making themselves new gatekeepers with new artificial moats for themselves. Information is not federated / distributed anymore.

We need "GPL for AI" that restricts AI scrapers from performing content theft/repackaging.

throwacct 4 days ago|
I think it's too late for that. For new projects? Of course.
asattarmd 5 days ago||
> And every second I spend trying to do fun free things for the community like this is a second I'm not spending trying to turn the business around and make sure the people who are still here are getting their paychecks every month.

Then step aside as the maintainer of the project then and better yet, make something like Tailwind-foundation etc. which is truly open source. Go spend your time building your business, but you can't become the bottleneck and not do anything for something that has become so foundational for Web Dev.

marginalx 4 days ago||
I urge you to understand what he is going through, he started the project, made it available freely, as more effort was required he added a premium offering to keep the whole thing running and hire more help. Please pause to think before coming to a rush judgement. How would you react if you had done exactly the things he had done, and you just had to lay off most of your team yesterday. We are humans and not robots, for all he has done, he has certainly earned the right to some times focus on what's affecting him first before he can focus on OSS.

Be Kind, we are all born billionaires with billions of "kindness tokens" in the bank, don't use them sparingly.

lifetimerubyist 4 days ago||
He gives a gift to the world and you’re telling him to just give it up because somebody did work nobody asked for and he doesn’t want it for his project

Get a grip.

farhanhubble 5 days ago||
I use Tailwind for connecting dev machines across two continents and as a free user I think it's an amazing product. It breaks my heart to see people losing their jobs because there isn't enough revenue.

I can empathize with the founder too because I was kind of in their shoes last year. Had been laid off and nearly exhausted my savings but I was more worried about having to let go of folks I employed.

gf000 5 days ago||
You might have mistaken tailwind and tailscale.

I have done so on countless occasions, but this is about the css "framework".

fud101 4 days ago||
tbh it annoys me when i want to go to my tailscale console but my browser takes me to tailwindcss which I have never used..
cleaning 5 days ago|||
You're thinking of Tailscale.
avandekleut 5 days ago|||
Tailwind is a UI styling and components company. Are you thinking of Tailscale?
ramoz 5 days ago|||
I think you mean tailscale
simlevesque 5 days ago|
[flagged]
tomhow 4 days ago||
Please don't fulminate or post flame bait on HN. This low-effort comment started just the kind of flamewar we're trying to avoid on HN. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46529364 and marked it off topic.

simlevesque 3 days ago||
Sorry I honestly didn't anticipate my opinions to be so divisive and this outcome wasn't my intention. I'll do better.

Could you delete my comments too ? Thank you

zeusly 5 days ago|||
[flagged]
tomhow 4 days ago|||
Please don't post dunks like this here. HN is for curious conversation and the guidelines ask us to be kind. We have no idea whether the thing they had in mind when they asked that question 8 years ago is relevant to what they think about the current topic. You could ask them rather than piling on like this.
simlevesque 5 days ago||||
I didn't ask how to do a bait and switch to offer a good free product and later ask for more money or else I'm going to make it worse. But I guess nuance is hard to understand.

Also it's always funny when someone tries to look up your past instead of giving convincing arguments.

jstummbillig 5 days ago|||
Arguments for... somebody wanting to get paid for their work? What are you doing?
simlevesque 5 days ago||
Normally you ask for payment upfront, not years after.
jstummbillig 5 days ago|||
Who got asked to pay years after...? After what?

Best read: You are confusing different products. Somebody can do two things and get paid for only one of them.

Worst read: You are really trying to confuse them.

patates 5 days ago||||
Nobody is asked for money years after they started using Tailwind. Nobody is being asked for money now, when they start using Tailwind.
orthecreedence 5 days ago||||
So fork and offer your better free version. Holy fuck. What's with this persistent attitude that open source creators should slave away for free forever?

Either you support an economy where everyone gets a meager living wage just for existing and then once that's established you can complain about people trying to make money off open source, or you say "capitalism as it exists is great" and swallow the fact that people who you don't pay don't work for you. Which is it?

w4yai 5 days ago||||
Please, just admit you're wrong. It's ok.
doganugurlu 5 days ago|||
Once you give it for free, you must work for free forever!

/s

bkorte 5 days ago||||
There is no bait and switch and it's ridiculous to suggest there is.

They have a free product and a paid product. They've used the documentation as an awareness channel for the paid product. The paid product influences and pays for the free product. A tail as old as time.

They're not asking you to buy the paid product and they're not saying they are going to make it worse. Did you even read thread? He literally says "I totally see the value in the feature and I would like to find a way to add it."

Not prioritizing it now does not make the product worse, it just doesn't make it better in this particular way today.

How is this hard to understand?

harryday 5 days ago||
> A tail as old as time.

Eggcorn klaxon!

wongarsu 5 days ago||||
But nobody is making tailwind worse. After closing this PR it is exactly as good as it was before the PR was opened
krainboltgreene 5 days ago||||
Here's a convincing argument: Pay me for some of my labor or you stop getting labor at all.
simlevesque 5 days ago||
Don't tell me you're giving me something for free in the first place then. It's simple.
patates 5 days ago|||
This attitude really tires open source maintainers enormously. They are not allowed to earn money connected to the thing they are giving away for free?

I know there may have been some weird stuff going on lately (nginx, redis, etc.) but this is not one of them.

It's okay to be confused, but please do not continue this.

sb8244 5 days ago|||
This breaks down because Tailwind is not monetized, is completely free, and hasn't indicated it won't be.

There is a corporate side with other features that has never been free. I pay for it because it's great.

I'm not sure if you're purposefully misstating it at this point or not. Several people have corrected you and you seem to double down incorrectly each time.

delfinom 5 days ago|||
That's not a bait and switch my dude, lmao. Bait and switch only applies when the initial price is something other than $0 but still low.
lloydatkinson 5 days ago|||
Did you really go looking over years of their post history for this retort?
hitekker 4 days ago||
GP could have remembered simlevesque's past posts and then just double-checked.

The hypocrisy the GP noticed is strong enough to warrant a mention.

lloydatkinson 4 days ago||
Bit of a stretch to remember a random post from 9 years ago though
nullorempty 5 days ago|||
hm, families need to eat.
simlevesque 5 days ago|||
Then why is HTTP, CSS and HTML free ? It's creators need to eat too. Should they start charging for it ?
00deadbeef 5 days ago|||
Tailwind CSS is free and funded by extras like Tailwind Plus.

HTML and CSS are free to use but the W3C is funded by membership fees.

hashhar 5 days ago||||
Which of those are evolving at the rate of frameworks?

BTW I'm of the opinion that frontend tooling developers should actually try to contribute things to HTML and CSS instead of building "component libraries" on top of them.

If the native controls were good and if the browsers allowed using "uniformly styled" versions of them then there would be no good reason for such libraries to exist.

robinhood 5 days ago||||
Your comments in this thread are terrible, all of them. You are part of the reason why working on open source projects is so hard for people who obviously want to do good in this world. Check Adam's work: his work has been a net positive for the OSS community. Go spread your poison and nasty comments elsewhere please.
romanhn 5 days ago|||
As someone who paid for a lifetime license of Tailwind UI, unlike, I strongly suspect, simlevesque - I 100% agree with this. The negativity is completely uncalled for, please take this somewhere else and do some self-reflection.
ksec 5 days ago|||
> Go spread your poison and nasty comments elsewhere please.

I have been on HN since 2008, his comment is by far the worst encounter ever in my memory. The sense of entitlement, not only in one comment by literally every single one of them in this thread and despite all the explanation he still believes he is right.

And to top it off he manage to drag HTML and CSS standards into it.

gizzlon 5 days ago|||
eeeh.. those are standards, not products.
hiQloIQ 5 days ago||||
I like how we recognize this necessity to our biology but commit everyone to Hunger Games-lite performative, fiat (by decree alone), economics due to lack of political action in the face of some walking dead politicians who can't get through a day or week without handfuls of pills, they're that pathetic.

We are a deeply unserious society.

Anyway; good luck going viral online, everyone. I got lucky, have had generational wealth in my back pocket since birth, am off the hook for you by our social norms. Hopefully it works out for you because I and the rest of us won't be engaged in political action on your behalf. Dance for the organ!

whateveracct 5 days ago|||
[flagged]
simonw 5 days ago|||
WTF?

So your answer to "how should open source projects achieve financial sustainability" is "don't even try"?

simlevesque 5 days ago|||
When you start making your open source project worse for your users because you are not making enough out of it I'll choose to use something else.

There's a point where it's too much and it just feels like a trojan horse when later you stop caring for your free users.

katdork 5 days ago|||
I think the part you're missing here is that the author here is under no requirement to accept changes to their project and everyone else is welcome to fork it if they disagree with choices made by the author.

The author did not in fact, make the project worse, all they did was not accept a change, and that is entirely different than making it worse.

Even those who stood to benefit from the change have not received a degraded experience in comparison to the current state of affairs, but the same experience as the current state of affairs, since no change occurred. It is truly within the author's rights to do this, in any case.

One should avoid a sense of entitlement to additional and ever-increasing quantities of free work when free work has already been done.

worik 5 days ago||
> all they did was not accept a change,

A change to make the documentation easier for LLM scrapers to inhale.

What would be the point? It would, in no way, improve anything. Probably not even for LLMs.

I am astounded the gentleman responded at all. I think all the talk of money (whilst urgent and catastrophic) is a red herring

katdork 4 days ago||
For sure, yeah.
Someone1234 5 days ago||||
I notice that you didn't answer their question: How should OSS be funded?
simlevesque 5 days ago||
Ethically
simonw 5 days ago|||
What's the ethically bad thing Tailwind did here? Not merging that pull request?
simlevesque 5 days ago||
I'd feel lied to if someone offers me a free tool and later the person that controls it chooses to make it worse just to make more money.

I got bit by that many times and do my best to avoid it but when it happens it's a stab in the back.

roblabla 5 days ago|||
At what point did they make it _worse_? Tailwind didn't remove any existing functionality here. What they did was refuse to merge a PR while they're trying to figure out how to navigate a difficult financial problem, all while being fully transparent about what's going on, and saying that they're open to merging the PR if/when they manage to get things together.

This is very different from, say, the minio situation, where they were actively removing feature before finally closing development down entirely. Whether tailwind will end up going down this route, time will tell. But as of right now, I find this reading to be quite uncharitable.

FootballMuse 5 days ago||
It's not even funcationality to the library code, it's a PR to their docs. If you just want optimized docs for your LLM to consume, isn't that what [Context7](https://context7.com/websites/tailwindcss) already has? Why force this new responsibility to the maintainer.
ksec 5 days ago||||
So which part did he make it worst?

By not adding an extra "feature" you deemed as essential?

Even more surprising is this is from an 2012 account.

Twirrim 5 days ago||||
How, exactly, have they made Tailwind worse just to make more money? Point to specifics, please.
doganugurlu 5 days ago|||
Did they send you an email or call you? I doubt it.

You found their homepage. You found that they didn’t ask for money, and allowed you to use their product for free. You decided to use it.

And now, they’re liars. How dare they try to make money?

gervwyk 5 days ago|||
Please let us know if you launch this open source project, we’d all be excited to use it!
elaus 5 days ago|||
You keep repeating that he makes his project worse – an active action – while in fact he did not do anything at all, he just refused to change something.
eudamoniac 4 days ago|||
The answer to "how should free things make money" is to not make them free. Any counterexamples are very fortunate. I don't know why people insist on giving away things for free while they actually desire to make money from those things. If the thing is valuable enough, someone will pay for it. Else...not
asadkn 5 days ago||
You're existing in hyper-capitalism. So yes big surprise, people need to make money.