Posted by publicdebates 1 day ago
Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?
It's a twofold problem, I believe. People are lonely because of fear of rejection and also actively avoid new people out of caution and high standards.
So two people who are otherwise lonely will make no effort to connect.
I think social networks have done a tremendous amount of damage to our collective psyche. Because on the web, you can single-click permanently block someone and never see them again. If you are admin of a group this person is in, you can also ban this person and prevent them from interacting with members of the group (in the group, that is, you cannot control private messages, but by banning someone from a community you are effectively isolating them), and I think we haven't considered how much power we are giving to random Reddit mods due to this.
Regardless ban evasion is always forbidden so if you slip up or get caught because of the way you type or whatever, you will be banned again.
so you create another account?
they don't even do IP bans, (er, so I hear)
We’re lonely because we are wired to avoid rejection and uncomfortable social situations, and because technology has given us hundreds of alternatives to sitting in the mess of connecting with people.
You can only solve it in your own life - by being courageous and spending more of your time in the physical world than in the digital one, willing to gro through the shitty feelings that come with being a human trying to meet other humans.
You cannot solve it for other people. There’s no sexy solution here. Meetup.com or whatever dating app or tech platform or not for profit will not fix it, because it takes individuals choosing the hard path and that will never happen en masse.
Locally, we have plenty of non-chain coffee shops, a good selection of small breweries/pubs, assorted gyms of all types and prices (CrossFit, Golds, etc), the local community center has assorted classes (dance, language, arts), and the community college has plenty of evening courses across most subject areas. Toss in MeetUps and Facebooks groups and there's plenty of chance to do things with social groups.
We need to promote density, walkability and time.
In America there is an idea that anyone who wants more that 4 hours to live outside of work is lazy or in some form selfish.
We do need to model university a little bit imo. Give me stuff to do that I can get to with fair ease, give people the time and energy to do it and everyone will be a lot more social
I live in the suburbs, but almost everything is within 2 miles... office, schools, and one cafe are walkable. Gym, another cafe, pub, and the town center (privately owned mixed-use complex) are 2-3 miles, so long walk, short bike, or 5 minutes in the car. I wish it was more walkable, but compared to most suburban areas, it's really good.
Contrasted my sister's house, on the other side of the county... nothing is within 3 miles or so. Basically a car ride to do anything, as there's no bike infrastructure for those things that are within 3 miles.
- Get rid of AI chat bots, limit social media use to federated platforms, get out more.
- Encourage cities to build spaces for people rather than cars where folks can meet up without the pressure to buy things and leave. Spaces for walking and hanging out.
Try an A/B test. Do days with zero screen stimuli - no TV, no phones, no online interaction. Go into the world to a cafe, or a common area with people and do stuff. See how you feel and what you feel up to. Vacations might be good and relaxing because you disconnect. Maybe do it without paying for it.
Is the shift from how society used to work to how society has come to work real or just a grammatically correct statement?
Statistics are biased by those who compute them. Have we asked everyone or inferred and p-hacked up data points?
The single salary family is largely a myth. A relatively small percentage of the population ever achieved that. Is the same true for loneliness? Is it a bigger problem now than it has been?
Is this like in medicine where we think ADHD is up, cancer is up... it's an epidemic! When in reality as a percent of society things are normal, we just had no idea before how prevalent those things were before we measured.
Volunteer at a museum if you like art, etc.
You just have to go live and bump into other people living in the world.
It’s “third places” where folks can just hang out and work, play, share, and commiserate without having to pay money to do so.
It’s bringing back establishments that promote lingering and loitering, like food halls or coffee shops, rather than chasing out folks.
It’s about building community centers inside apartment complexes, more public green space, more venues and forums.
Giving people space that doesn’t require a form of payment is the best approach, because humans will take advantage of what’s out there naturally. Sure, structure helps, but space is the issue at present I believe.
Is it? There are a number of third places around here that sit effectively vacant. The few who are passionate about seeing those spaces thrive will tell you that the problem is getting anyone to come, not finding space to host them.
* Outdoor spaces close at dusk for the most part, restricting sociability in the winter months when it’s darker, sooner, and longer.
* Winters are cold, making outdoor spaces less usable during those months
* Indoor spaces are exclusively fee-oriented. Coffee shops evict customers after an hour or so, movie theaters can run upwards of $30 a person for a ticket and a snack, malls eject loiterers, gallerias harass anyone clearly not there to do business.
* The few places NOT fee-oriented - like public libraries - are either saturated with use and lack capacity for more folks, or are under-used due to requiring a car to access them.
* Youth in particular lack third-spaces to explore within, fee or no-fee. One roller rink serves the entire north portion of the city and isn’t accessible except by car. Ice rinks are co-opted by hockey teams year-round. Bowling alleys can run $15/person/game, at times, and dwindle in number. Schools are closed except to those involved in extracurriculars after-hours. Arcades are non-existent, the sole skate park closes at dusk, and cops or security harass any group of teenagers they find, especially in parks or public spaces. It’s bad enough as an adult with a car, it’s downright hostile to anyone young or unable to drive.
* The few genuine community centers that do exist, generally operate solely in rich towns that restrict access to citizens, or in impoverished areas and tied to specific special interest agendas for access - many of which may be good, but many more attempt to convert visitors to religions or political groups.
* Even if someone has space in their apartment to host, landlords have gotten so sleazy that parking for visitors is either non-existent or costs money to utilize, thus reducing the ability to host at all without spending more money.
But you’re right, it’s not necessarily a space issue.
It’s a money issue, in that we’ve built a society where you’re barred from enjoyment, self-discovery, or group fulfillment unless you’re spending $20 an hour or white and old enough to be invisible to cops and Karens.
It is not. While said third places obviously do need resources to operate, that has already been figured out by those passionate to make a go of having the third place. Generous donations, grants, and fundraising go a long way.
I do buy that it is somewhat of a marketing problem. I expect a lot of people don't even know they exist. I was once talking to someone who literally lives just three doors down from one of those third places and it never occurred to him that he could even go in. But he also hasn't even now that he knows he can. That's quite telling.
I can also agree that there is a bit of a bootstrapping problem. If you show up and there is only a couple of other people there, you're not likely to return. If it was full of people, that'd be more compelling.
But these third places did thrive once upon a time. The bootstrapping problem was solved. The marketing problem was solved. It all fell apart because people found other things to do. The reality is that the population at large does not see a need for third places (of the type you speak) anymore. Houses nowadays are way bigger and more comfortable than they used to be so there isn't as much feeling of pressure to get out, there are more activities going on to occupy one's time[1], of course technology has become a significant distraction, etc.
[1] For example, my grandparents' generation would have never heard of putting their children in sports. My parents' generation would take their kids to a sport about once a week. Nowadays parents are carting their kids off to sporting events every single night of the week! That doesn't leave time to occupy a third place[2].
[2] The sporting event venue is technically a third place[3], granted, but if you've been to one you'll know they aren't particularly social for the parents. They mostly just sit there watching their children (or phone, quite often), not to mention that the considerable time spent in the car travelling from far off place to far off place to get to the competition is not social at all. I don't think that is what you have in mind with respect to the greater conversation.
[3] Open to the public, free of charge. If I am wrong above and this is what you did have in mind, then it serves as another example of the space being there with no need for you to open your wallet. All you have to do is show up. But will you? I already know the answer is "No." The actual parents don't even look like they want to be there most of the time.