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Posted by ardentsword 13 hours ago

Radboud University selects Fairphone as standard smartphone for employees(www.ru.nl)
462 points | 217 commentspage 2
Jolter 10 hours ago|
They’re hardly pioneers; my wife’s employer switched from Apple to Fairphone as the pre-selected option a few years ago. They have about 10k employees.
SpaceL10n 4 hours ago||
Fairphone is going to enjoy the next few weeks. Radboud isn't the only one!
protimewaster 7 hours ago||
I thought one of the issues for Fairphone is that their security update schedule / security practices are a bit lax? Their phones are regularly requested by users to be targeted by GrapheneOS, but GOS developers contend that the security practices for the Fairphone are problematic. They apparently get security updates late and don't properly implement verified boot and attestation.

I like the devices, but I've stuck with Pixel devices for the better security practices. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that a university wouldn't be concerned about late security updates and the like.

Mxrtxn 7 hours ago||
>They apparently get security updates late and don't properly implement verified boot and attestation.

It doesn't matter if their os gets security updates late, becase security updates depend on the rom maker this case grapheneos.

protimewaster 7 hours ago||
That's not entirely correct. There are also updates to the baseband, bootloader, binary driver blobs, etc. E.g., the bootloader for the FP3 was set to trust roms signed with the AOSP test keys (https://forum.fairphone.com/t/bootloader-avb-keys-used-in-ro...). That's not something fixable by the OS / rom maker.

The security issues stemming from such things are likely real, as well. There was a paper released some time back, about binary blobs, that found:

> Our results reveal that device manufacturers often neglect vendor blob updates. About 82% of firmware releases contain outdated GPU blobs (up to 1,281 days). A significant number of blobs also rely on obsolete LLVM core libraries released more than 15 years ago. To analyze their security implications, we develop a performant fuzzer that requires no physical access to mobile devices. We discover 289 security and behavioral bugs within the blobs. We also present a case study demonstrating how these vulnerabilities can be exploited via WebGL.

(From https://arxiv.org/html/2410.11075)

DANmode 3 hours ago|||
I was going to keep to myself on this one, but this is a good jump-in point.

The security capabilities of their hardware are what makes GrapheneOS incompatible to target the phone, Not any specific security practices of the developers of Fairphone.

Having said that: if there’s a way to MDM GrapheneOS, I’d be looking at that also!

The n+ patch interval on Lineage, /e/ and the rest of them, that’s plain and simply more days your administrators are at risk of giving up the keys to your castle - and that’s a tough pill to swallow!

lucb1e 7 hours ago||
These risks don't seem to materialize if you're not targeted by something like an intelligence agency. Not sure publicly funded research has such security requirements, at least by default (they can always buy custom equipment for a project, or just not put such data on devices you take home / out and about). Might be worth it compared to the very real benefits it has around the world by paying good salaries and fairer material sourcing
protimewaster 6 hours ago||
That's probably true, but some of the mistakes FP has made in the past could probably be widely exploited, so it doesn't instill a lot of confidence IMO. E.g., they were signing their OS images with the AOSP test keys.
Vinnl 6 hours ago||
It's not a particularly old company (a little over ten years I think?), so presumably they've had to learn a lot of those kinds of lessons at the start of their lifetime. But at this stage, I'd assume they've learned the lowest-hanging lessons, at least.
jhoho 10 hours ago||
I'm on board as soon as they include a zoom camera.

But for now it seems like I'll remain with a Pixel and GrapheneOS.

adrian_b 10 hours ago|
A camera with optical zoom would be indeed nice.

For me another feature is what disqualifies it. Fairphone 6 would have been otherwise acceptable for myself, as it has quite decent specifications, but it only has USB 2.0.

Other smartphones at around the same price not only have USB 3, but also DisplayPort 1.4 (e.g. from Motorola).

I hate when I see even on many smartphones over $1000, that they save a few cents by implementing USB 2 instead of USB 3, and a few dollars at most by not implementing DisplayPort.

The SoC used in Fairphone 6 supports both USB 3 and DisplayPort, but its designers have saved a few external components by not offering these features.

Pixel is also disqualified for me by the same reason. Unfortunately only some smartphones made in China offer complete features and without excessive locking of the phone.

ranguna 9 hours ago|||
> Pixel is also disqualified for me by the same reason.

How so?

I think all pixels starting from 6 or 7 have DisplayPort output through USB C.

I watched a movie the other day with my projector connected to my pixel 10 running grapheneOS. Other than getting a phone call halfway through the movie and a few hiccups selecting the audio Jack output, everything ran smoothly.

adrian_b 6 hours ago||
This is good to know, but they certainly do not advertise this feature as existing.

On Google Store there is no information about this and other sites, like Gsmarena, also do not have any information on it, unlike for the smartphones from other vendors that have DisplayPort.

On some older Pixel models, it has been discovered that DisplayPort existed in hardware, but it was disabled in software by the Google operating system. It could be enabled only by replacing the OS. I see that you also do not use its native OS, so this condition may have remained true.

About newer models, it was supposed that the hardware support might have been removed.

How did you discover that DisplayPort exists on your Pixel 10?

Was this mentioned in its user manual?

Do you have the plain Pixel 10 or some Pro version?

Do you happen to know whether you have DisplayPort 1.2 or 1.4? I.e. which is the maximum resolution at which you have used it, can it do 4k @ 60 Hz on a monitor or projector?

Did you have to use the audio jack because the smartphone does not know to send the audio through DisplayPort, or was that a limitation of your projector (or perhaps of some DisplayPort/HDMI converter that you may have used)?

Having this feature and not documenting it for the potential buyers is even more stupid than not implementing it, as this can lead to lost sales. Like with Fairphone 6, I have considered buying Pixel 10, which at least has USB 3, but I have eliminated it from the possible choices for the lack of DisplayPort.

EDIT:

Googling now, I have found an article at Google's "Pixel Phone Help":

https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/2865484?hl=en

which says "Connect your phone to a display device (Pixel 8 and later)",

So indeed, DisplayPort is supported officially starting with Pixel 8.

Nevertheless, it says nothing about what kind of DisplayPort is supported, i.e. which is the maximum resolution that is achievable on a monitor/projector, and this help answer is well hidden, you have to search specifically for it, instead of having clear technical specification of the Pixel phones, easy to discover by potential buyers.

Moreover, it can do only screen or window mirroring, instead of having a desktop mode like other vendors, so I think that it probably is limited to 1080 lines, which is the resolution of Pixel's screen (non-Pro models, but Pro are only slightly better). In that case, it still does not do what I want, which is a 4k resolution on a monitor/projector (it can record 4k movies after all, so I would have expected to be able to play them).

hommelix 3 hours ago||||
Thanks for this. My Fairphone 4 has USB3 and works well with my laptop docking station. I would not have imagined that Fairphone regressed on that point.
jhoho 9 hours ago|||
I second this, although since the Pixel 8(a) they all come with USB-C 3.2 and DisplayPort support. You have to buy a cable that supports it, though.
maelito 6 hours ago||
Please, make a Fairphone mini. I'd buy it right away, whatever the price.
lucb1e 5 hours ago|
Also whatever the battery size though?

Not that I disagree. I bought a Fairphone some years ago and sold it onward because it simply didn't fit in my hand, but the phone I got instead had a delicious combo of small physical battery and terribly inefficient chipset (2019 Exynos). I'd still make the same choice but it's a considerable downside (thankfully the only downside of this phone besides its age and software support by now)

kotaKat 10 hours ago||
"Employees who have an iPhone from Radboud University can continue to use it as long as the device is still functioning. However, returned iPhones will no longer be reissued."

I wonder what the take rate will be from people rejecting the Fairphone and requesting their own SIM instead. The inner IT purchasing cynic in me says this is just a simple way to cull out your purchasing costs by only issuing one quasi-unpopular* device.

* I used to issue out phones at a large hospital and we allowed device choice. We saw ~90% iPhones, 10% Android in our fleet.

Quothling 6 hours ago||
If Holland is anything like Denmark the cost of employee phones can be budgeted as an operational cost, which means it's basically free. I doubt that is their reasoning. It's far more likely this is a part of the massive anti-US tech dependency wave which is rolling over Europe. Digital sovereignty is a hot topic these days.

As far as what people want... it depends... A lot of people have two phones anyway, since they don't want to pay the additional taxation for using a company phone privately. Also because it's easier to turn it off when you're not working. In education I would imagine a lot of teachers/professors would prefer to not give their private numbers to students.

eloisant 10 hours ago||
Probably not many, the iPhone only has a 35% market share in the Netherlands.

The Fairphone 6 is a pretty good phone.

hex-m 5 hours ago|||
According to the WhatsApp-leak, it is 51.41% Android and 48.59% iOS in the Netherlands.

https://github.com/sbaresearch/whatsapp-census/blob/main/cou...

lucb1e 5 hours ago|||
People who are happy to use services from facebook may also be disproportionately more likely to are happy to use the iOS garden
DANmode 3 hours ago|||
That’s a wealthy nation.
joe_mamba 9 hours ago|||
That sounds unreal to me. Typically rich countries, like the nordics, are majority iPhone. But then again, Dutch people are know across Europe to be cheapskates so maybe that explains it ;)
uyzstvqs 6 hours ago|||
Android is generally more popular in Europe.

The reason is how messaging works. In the US (and Canada?), SMS was affordable since before smartphones, and people kept using SMS once smartphones became common. Apple automatically integrated iMessage into that. Americans are used to texting using the default messaging app, and using an iPhone to text another iPhone provided a better experience than plain old SMS/MMS.

In Europe, SMS was extremely expensive in the late 2000s/early 2010s, so people never really used it, and instead started using cross-platform internet messengers. MSN, Skype, then WhatsApp. Android was/is seen as the same or better quality for a lower price, so why buy an iPhone?

ahoka 6 hours ago|||
You know that it costs the same as the cheapest iPhone?
joe_mamba 6 hours ago|||
You know not all Android phones in NL are Fairphones? And you know plenty of ANdroids are much cheaper than a Fairphone?

Which probably explains the 35% market share if that's true.

But I get it, you wanted a cheap shot.

lucb1e 5 hours ago|||
It's not just any phone though. Imagine what it would cost if Apple presented a fair phone
t0bia_s 9 hours ago||
What ROM are they use FP with?
damnitbuilds 9 hours ago||
They need to make a small diagonal model, 5" screen max, 1/2" thick, PCBs inside a rubber frame ( so no extra case needed ).

Also nice would be replaceable plug-in modules a` la Frame.work laptops.

6510 10 hours ago||
The thing I would like to see is a second purpose for smart phones, an afterlife, calculator heaven?

It doesn't have to be cheap. It might for example resign into a security camera or a doorbell. A metal bracket with a connector, a button or a connection for one, a seperate psu with a bell or a relay for one, screws to attach the wires, perhaps a stripped down end of life OS (altho it could just be a mode) and it becomes a very good doorbell with motion detection, a good amount of storage, two way video if you want it. Share with someone [temporarly]. Backup footage on laptops, pc's, phones, storage devices etc etc

For $100 in parts it would be highly competitive in the space but it could be more expensive as it can basically do everything a $1000 security camera offers and more. Battery backup, sim card, etc. A big phone brand might even be able to get a contract with local law enforcement so that they can have/request [emergency] access.

It's just one example, a small/portable computer could resign into many things. The device only needs to know it is now a TV remote control.

iso1631 10 hours ago|
Looking to replace my iphone 12 mini. Alas the fairphone is also obnoxiosuly large. Seems the only phone available today under 65mm is the Jelly Star
lucb1e 5 hours ago||
I looked into the Jelly Star about six months ago. Downsides are the lack of dual-frequency GNSS and eSIM, and blanks in my spreadsheet are chipset speed, unlockability, warranty, slow motion camera speed, screen brightness, storage speed, and battery life (on 2Ah that might not be very much). The IR blaster and FM radio are cool benefits though, and it's very cheap. May be worth a try if you're feeling adventurous and enjoy it being a conversation starter, but I wouldn't expect much longevity from it (battery life or warranty)
prmoustache 9 hours ago|||
The thing is the apps themselves start to be unusable on smaller screens as DEV don't take them into account anymore.
com 8 hours ago||
Me too. I've seen that horror too :-)
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