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Posted by petercooper 6 hours ago

IP Addresses Through 2025(www.potaroo.net)
131 points | 83 comments
Fiveplus 5 hours ago|
The collapse in IPv4 transfer prices is what caught my eye here, dropping from a ~$55 peak in 2021 to a mean of $22 in early 2026 (figure 12).

This validates my hypothesis that the run-up in 2020–2022 was an artificial scarcity bubble driven largely by hyperscalers. AWS was right up there stockpiling before they shifted their pricing model. Once AWS introduced the hourly charge for public IPv4 addresses (effectively passing the scarcity cost to the consumer), their acquisition pressure vanished. The text notes Amazon stopped announcing almost 15M addresses in Nov 2025. I think they have moved from aggressive accumulation to inventory management.

We are seeing asset stranding in real-time. The market has realized that between the AWS tax and the efficacy of mobile CGNAT, the desperate thirst for public v4 space was not infinite. I'm curious to hear more takes on this.

JulianHart 59 minutes ago||
The CGNAT point is underrated. Carriers have zero incentive to move away from it - thousands of users per public IP, no transition cost.

The interesting downstream effect is on IP reputation systems. Traditional detection assumed 1 IP = 1 user. CGNAT breaks that entirely - platforms can't aggressively filter mobile carrier IPs without blocking legitimate customers by the thousands.

Makes sense the IPv4 price dropped once mobile networks proved you can serve massive user bases with relatively few public addresses.

patmorgan23 29 minutes ago|||
Expect CG-NAT boxes are expensive, and introduce another point of failure into the network. Most mobile carriers are running IPv6 first networks these days anyway.

Like you said, CG-NAT does have the benefit of making v4 address reputation less reliable, which means it's not as big a deal for the transition to v6.

wcfields 31 minutes ago|||
Anecdotally on how this affects the day to day user experience: I just deployed T-Mobile 5G Business Internet to a temporary pop-up art space (it's only active for a few months) and I'd say twice daily I get a CAPTCHA challenge on Google search.
zokier 5 hours ago|||
It is noteworthy that in 2020 AWS had very limited ipv6 support, but these days they have at least some support in the most critical services.
WorldMaker 50 minutes ago|||
> efficacy of mobile CGNAT

At driving the majority of mobile traffic to IPv6? Otherwise, it seems hard to describe mobile CGNAT as efficacious to me.

inemesitaffia 1 hour ago|||
Amazon LEO

Aka Kuiper

>stopped announcing almost 15M addresses in Nov 2025

newsoftheday 3 hours ago|||
When AWS rolled out plans to start charging for IPv4 addresses:

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-aws-public-ipv4-address...

"As you may know, IPv4 addresses are an increasingly scarce resource and the cost to acquire a single public IPv4 address has risen more than 300% over the past 5 years. This change reflects our own costs and is also intended to encourage you to be a bit more frugal with your use of public IPv4 addresses and to think about accelerating your adoption of IPv6 as a modernization and conservation measure."

Their move disgusted me and I moved from AWS to OCI.

knollimar 2 hours ago||
What disgusted you about it? I'm out of the loop
jdsully 2 hours ago|||
They hadn't bothered to add ipv6 support to most of their services and the ones that did have it usually were only dual stack - still requiring an ipv4 address.
knollimar 1 hour ago||
That sounds like a failure in every direction. I see why you moved
newsoftheday 17 minutes ago|||
It was clearly a corporate money grab, not an altruistic motion as they made it sound.
dlcarrier 2 hours ago|||
As someone with a background in electronics who doesn't manage any internet-connected equipment but has multiple embedded devices connected to a WAN, I'm glad that IPv4 still seems to have a bit of life left in it.

When IPv6 was developed, over 30 years ago, connecting everything to the internet seemed like a great idea. I know that IPv6 can be made secure, but I don't have the background or research time to learn how to do so, and the NAT-by-default of IPv4 effectively means that I get the benefit of a default-deny security strategy that makes it impossible to accidentally directly connect anything to the internet.

I'm hoping I can keep using IPv4 until IPv8 or IPv4.5 or whatever comes next is developed with the modern proliferation of cheap insecure IoT in mind.

For some background on why IoT products are so insecure:

Hardware manufacturers don't really comprehend the idea of updates, let alone timely of security patches. Hardware has to work on the day of release, so everything is documented and tested to verify it will work. I have hardware with a TCP/IP stack that was released 20 years, (https://docs.wiznet.io/Product/Chip/Ethernet/W5500) and doesn't have a single errata published, despite widespread use. This is expected for every single component, for even the smallest 1-cent transistor, which has dozens of guaranteed performance characteristics laid out over several pages of documentation (https://en.mot-mos.com/vancheerfile/files/pdf/MOT2302B2.pdf).

When manufacturers venture into a product that runs software, they don't realize that for a given complexity, working through undocumented or, worse yet, incorrectly documented APIs takes more time than the equivalent hardware development and documentation. I've worked on multiple projects where software bugs were fixed with hardware workarounds, because it's faster, cheaper, and easier to develop, test, document, retool, and add a few cents of bill-of-materials cost per product, than to get reliable output from the already-written library that's supposed to provide the functionality.

The hardware TCP/IP stack that I linked to was developed at a time when it was the cheapest way to connect a low-power embedded system to a network. Modern low-power embedded systems have multiple cores running at hundreds to thousands of MIPS making the resources to run a softtware TCP/IP stack trivial, but the product still sells well, because when security is an absolute must, the hardware development and maintenance cost for the functionality is still cheaper than through software, even when there's no marginal cost to run the software.

johnmaguire 2 hours ago|||
> the NAT-by-default of IPv4

IPv4 is not NAT-by-default. The reality of the world we live in today is that most home networks have a NAT, because you need multiple devices behind a single IP.

That said, I agree: it's quite unknowable how many services I've turned on on local machines with the expectation that a router firewall sat between me and potential clients.

But that doesn't go away with IPv6 - the NAT does, the router doesn't, and the firewall shouldn't either. For example, the default UniFi firewall rules for IPv6 are: 1. Allow Established/Related Traffic (outbound return traffic), 2. Block Invalid Traffic, 3. Block All Other Traffic

You must explicitly open a firewall rule for inbound IPv6 traffic. NAT is not the firewall.

ianburrell 2 hours ago||||
IPv6 is just as secure as IPv4. NAT usually combines address translation with a stateful firewall. I remember when they were separate things. IPv6 has the stateful firewall, all the same security but without the mess of address translation.

Also, if you have devices connected to WAN, then they are insecure because they are not NATed.

immibis 20 minutes ago||||
For some background why IoT products will stop being insecure: if you sell one in the EU, you're liable for all the damage your botnet causes.

Luckily, common EU home routers have firewalls, even for IPv6. And it's so much easier to punch holes on purpose! Instead of messing with port forwarding and internal and external IP addresses, you can just say "this device is a server, please allow traffic on port 80 and 443, thank you"

simoncion 1 hour ago|||
> I know that IPv6 can be made secure, but I don't have the background or research time to learn how to do so, and the NAT-by-default of IPv4 effectively means that I get the benefit of a default-deny security strategy that makes it impossible to accidentally directly connect anything to the internet.

To get the "unsolicted traffic is rejected or dropped" behavior of the typical IPv4 NAT, forward inbound traffic that's related to an established connection and drop or reject the rest.

You can also use the exact same NAT techniques you use for IPv4 addresses with IPv6 addresses. The only differences are that instead of you using RFC 1918 Private Internets addresses (10./8 and friends) you use RFC 4193 ULA addresses (fd00::/8), and you need the usual NAT rules on your edge router, except for IPv6, rather than IPv4. Remember that IPv6 is still IP, just with larger addresses.

It's recommended that you generate your ULA subnet rather than selecting one by hand, but absolutely nothing stops you from choosing fd::/64. If you're statically assigning addresses to your LAN hosts, then your router could be -say- fd::1 and you count up from there. Also note that DHCP exists for IPv6 [0] and is used by every non-toy OS out there except for Android.

> I'm hoping I can keep using IPv4 until IPv8 or IPv4.5 or whatever comes next...

IPvnext is not happening in either of our lifetimes. You're either going to have to buy edge gear that's set up with a "reject or drop unsolicited inbound forwarding traffic" firewall, or learn how to set it up yourself. Either path is not hard. Well, I guess there's secret option #3: "Die without doing either.". That's also not hard.

[0] It has been around for nearly twenty-three years.

themafia 1 hour ago||
I don't think you even need a stateful firewall. If it's an IoT device that's not meant to provide services to the internet then it seems to me you can just drop all non local subnet originated traffic and get most of the security you would expect with NAT.
oasisbob 27 minutes ago||
If you want to drop all non-local subnet originated traffic, you need to keep state. Otherwise, how can you tell which side originated the flow?

Even that is only a partial solution - UPNP hole punching exploits holes in this logic to allow peer-to-peer traffic into a network which otherwise has a default-deny ACL.

TNorthover 1 hour ago||
[dead]
blakesterz 5 hours ago||
This closes on a bit of a downer:

  "As the Internet continues to evolve, it is no longer the technically innovative challenger pitted against venerable incumbents in the forms of the traditional industries of telephony, print newspapers, television entertainment and social interaction. The Internet is now the established norm. The days when the Internet was touted as a poster child of disruption in a deregulated space are long since over, and these days we appear to be increasingly looking further afield for a regulatory and governance framework that can challenge the increasing complacency of the very small number of massive digital incumbents. 

  It is unclear how successful we will be in this search for responses to this oppressive level of centrality in many aspects of the digital environment. We can but wait and see."
bigbadfeline 1 hour ago||
> We can but wait and see.

Don't bring technology to a political fight, the hoarders've got more tech than you, "wait and see" is what a bag of sand does at the gun range.

dlcarrier 2 hours ago||
If you think the time that a given social network spends at the top is long now, wait until there's a "regulatory and governance framework" knocking out most newcomers.
tokyobreakfast 6 hours ago||
The real story here is China and India have been quietly buying up gobs of African IP blocks - most of which are used for botting operations. I see it in my server logs.

China already de-facto owns half of Africa so it's natural they would prey on their scarce IP resources as well.

When you see AI scraping at a massive scale originating from $AFRICAN_COUNTRY IP space, and that country's GDP is smaller than Rhode Island, you sure as shit know someone else is behind it.

rendx 6 hours ago|
I see this often that people refer to countries as actors. Are you implying that the government of these countries bought those resources and they're now owned by the government? Or are you saying that citizens/corporations of those countries are buying? I find it weird, I wouldn't use the phrase "The United States is buying XYZ" unless it was the current government doing so?
tokyobreakfast 6 hours ago|||
Both.

In the case of China, I believe it's government or CCP-controlled entities, and the end-game is something more nefarious.

For India, IMO it's private industry. They're just trying to make a buck.

landl0rd 44 minutes ago||||
China does not have a meaningful distinction between private industry and the state. She also maintains a level of surveillance and control, particularly in the IT world, that makes this hard with some level of government sanction.
TrueDuality 2 hours ago||||
I'm not sure the distinction matters, and attribution is inherently hard and easy to get wrong. I frequently read Country X is doing Y, less as a indicator of government action and more of a single that we can't be more specific of who within the country is performing an action but we know the behavior is occurring there.

In the case of IP address purchases, these are publicly tied to specific public and private entities and can be easily queried through the regional registries. These private entities are frequently the same kind of shell company you'll get with hiding shady financial details.

butvacuum 5 hours ago||||
It seems to be widly accepted that the Chinese State (don't know about India) often imposes on or sponsers citizens to perform actions it finds adventagious.

And, I'd say, the US is known to do this. I'll lead with 'Project Azorian' to back it up.

Earendil137 5 hours ago||
India does it too. You see it on all socials as well as reddit. Brain dead posts and comments praising the current govt or gate against anyone criticising.
leosanchez 4 hours ago||
> You see it on all socials as well as reddit

Almost all the Indian subreddits are against the current government. You will be banned from a subreddit even if you rightly speak in support of current government on Reddit.

It's hard to take your rest of your comment seriously if you are blatantly dishonest about this.

WarmWash 5 hours ago|||
In the US, the government can apply pressure and bargain with companies for favor, but there is no legal requirement of companies agreeing (shy of court orders). Far more than cases of corporate compliance with the government are cases of corporate defiance.

In China, there is no meaningful difference between the party and any Chinese company. Companies are seed funded by the state and carry the will of the state. There is no "come back with a court order" in China. And even if there was, the courts are also just another arm of the party.

snowwrestler 4 hours ago||
I pay close attention to IPv4 addresses for outgoing emails. At work we use several email services and pay for a dedicated IP(v4) at each. And when we provision a new service, we expect our new IP address to be “clean,” by which I mean it is ideally not found on any email reputation list.

For websites and services I don’t care. Some hosting platforms publish via CNAME, and some via A and AAAA records. Most seem to use a mix of v4 and v6 addressing.

The falling price of IPv4 addresses looks to me like we’ve made it to other side of the IPv6 rollout: demand for IPv4 is falling faster than supply now. Not clear if those prices are adjusted for inflation; the post-COVID spike looks like a lot of other nominal price graphs. If not, then the recent price drop is even more dramatic than it appears.

Perhaps in the long run, IPv4 becomes an artisanal choice for uses that depend on stable IP reputation: email sending, primarily. And everyone else relies on TLS for reputation signals, not caring about the IP address.

hnuser123456 4 hours ago|
There is a growing grey market for IPv4 still, though, and probably always will be. It seemed like people were treating them like crypto for a while. Still people out there trying to re-route old abandoned ranges. There are still a lot of legacy ranges that belong to defunct organizations and never got properly sold.
bastardoperator 1 hour ago||
There is no shortage. Go look at IPXO, you can sublease any block size. The RiR's should be reclaiming these unused addresses, but instead the ASN is allowed to sit on them or rent them out, regardless they're not being used. The shortage is caused by hoarding and RiR's not doing their job.
assimpleaspossi 5 hours ago||
Just yesterday--and I don't know how I wound up there--I looked at RFC1166 (from 1990) which is "a status report on the network numbers and autonomous system numbers used in the Internet community." There's a long list of companies and individuals who were assigned "internet numbers". To my surprise, my real name is listed there! I have no clue why.
petercooper 6 hours ago||
Not to spoil the article (but there's a lot in there) but I was particularly intrigued by the ongoing tumbling of the price of IPs. After peaking in 2022, "these days the low price of $9 per address is back to the same price that was seen in 2014."
Bluecobra 5 hours ago||
I was also surprised to find that out the other day when someone on Reddit was complaining they couldn’t get a good price on a /17 they were hoarding to sell for a profit. Good riddance.
kincl 5 hours ago||
The country code GB in some of the tables should show the source economy being Great Britain right? Am I misunderstanding the table?
graemep 5 hours ago|
That looks weird. I am guessing that someone knows about the mismatch between ccTLDs (where the UK is .uk) and ISO codes (where the UK is GB and Ukraine is UA) and tried to correct something and got it wrong.

its correct in other tables.

pumplekin 2 hours ago||
.uk being the TLD, and .gb being the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code is a quirk of history that comes with .uk being on the internet very early.
billyjobob 1 hour ago||
My ISP added IPv6 support and my router began handing out IPv6 addresses. How did I know this?

1. My AppleTV began stuttering during playback.

2. My old iMac began crashing every time it connected to the wifi.

At least the iMac has an option to disable IPv6. The AppleTV has no such option so I had to do it in the router.

1970-01-01 3 hours ago|
I'm interested in any new successful startups going full IPV6 from the beginning. Once we cross that bridge, where your internal IPV4 knowledge is equivalent to token ring knowledge, there's nothing else to watch.
oasisbob 20 minutes ago||
Exclusively IPv6 without any transitional mechanisms would be difficult to succeed with.

However, there are network upstarts like Jio (India) which made huge v6 investments from day one which use 464xlat for subscribers to access v4-only resources.

1970-01-01 8 minutes ago|||
>Exclusively IPv6 without any transitional mechanisms would be difficult to succeed with.

That's my point; why is it still difficult? What exactly are the pain points for a fully commercialized native IPV6-only business, and why do we think it will be easier to maintain the status quo?

immibis 15 minutes ago|||
Also every mobile phone network ever (with a handful of exceptions) is IPv6-only, with a slow translation layer to reach v4 sites. Your app or website literally runs faster if you use IPv6.
awestroke 2 hours ago|||
Github still refuses to switch on support for ipv6 traffic for some reason, so you can't interact with github then
speedgoose 1 hour ago||
It would be a strange and unnecessary risk to take for a startup in my opinion.
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