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Posted by mickle00 1 day ago

Yes, It's Fascism(www.theatlantic.com)
608 points | 364 commentspage 2
eudamoniac 1 day ago|
I read through every comment in this thread and no one seems to be addressing that the people voted for this. They'll probably vote for it again in the midterms and/or 2028. You're despairing over a democratic outcome. What do you actually propose that would fix this? Disenfranchise half the country? Outlaw things people are voting for to happen? Any criticism needs to address how we democratically counter this regime, how this makes sense when this is the voted upon regime, or perhaps make an argument for why democracy has failed.

My perspective is that a scale has tipped, a critical mass of people decided they want this sort of thing, and they got it. It wasn't rigged, it wasn't fraudulent, it was a democratic election. Critique democracy itself, or the criticism is incoherent. Make an argument for why a government should be disallowed from doing things that the voters want it to do.

xnx 1 day ago||
> Disenfranchise half the country?

Way more than half the country was disenfranchised in the last election. Best case scenario (and very unlikely scenario): blue sweep in the next elections and then massive electoral reform.

jemmyw 1 day ago|||
Electoral reform is really hard for parties just voted in by that election system. Suddenly they see the good in that which they had previously seen as bad.
zahlman 10 hours ago|||
> Way more than half the country was disenfranchised in the last election.

Over 152 million votes were cast, representing more than 64% turnout among those eligible to vote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidentia...).

The USA has about 342 million people, and over 18% of them are age 14 or younger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...) and at least some of them are 15-17 (citation needed). So clearly, doing some arithmetic, there are fewer than 304 million adults.

Not only was "half the country" not "disenfranchised", literally a majority of adults actually voted (and this is not even considering that not all adults were statutorily allowed to vote in the first place).

xnx 9 hours ago||
Because of the electoral college, gerrymandering, and other reasons (e.g. District of Columbia) many votes don't count at all or count far less.
zahlman 9 hours ago||
If that is what you're referring to, then it's nothing particular to Trump. Not all of it is even particular to the US; for example, Canadian electoral "ridings" function like single-EV states.

But also, Trump won the popular vote this time.

xnx 9 hours ago||
No dispute there. It's just a terrible system that has no reason to exist. No telling what turnout would be if more of the country new their vote might matter.
tencentshill 9 hours ago|||
Only republicans are actively destroying federal voter protections. Many red states already run elections with ridiculous voting restrictions. It's up to the federal government to discourage those practices, not encourage them. Luckily, they cannot mandate such changes.
willmarch 1 day ago|||
You can't vote away the Constitutional rights of other people. ICE is regularly violating the Constitution and being encouraged to do so by those in power. Unless multiple amendments were removed from the Constitution without anybody noticing, your point about "the people voted for this" is an absurd and ridiculous attempt to justify real abuse of power and anti-democratic actions.

If we can't agree as a people that the Constitution applies to everyone equally then it isn't a problem with democracy, it's a problem with fascism and must dealt with as such.

throwawayb2025 1 day ago|||
There might be Gandhian/Nelson Mandela way of handling this. Both fought to change system and didn't teach hatredness towards individual a Racist person. Get arrested peacefully.

Others can work for immediate protest for release of the arrested.

Appeal to common values that they also have, and show how they are violating the religious values they profess.

Technically someone can make some app, that can easily help in getting the citizenship proof for an individual.

I am not from USA.

deeg 1 day ago|||
I think a lot of voters were fooled (or foolish) into thinking that Trump would limit himself to go after other people; he got a higher percentage of minority votes in 2024 then prior elections. That's not good but the mask is off and I think Trump has lost a lot of those voters.

It's also hard to quantify how much the pandemic and inflation moved some voters away from Biden/Harris.

I think Dems will win big in the next election. The question is how long this lesson will last with voters.

litoE 1 day ago|||
If your definition of Democracy is based on how we elect our leaders, then Hitler's Germany was a Democracy because Hitler was elected Chancellor by a majority. You need to define Democracy based on how we replace our leaders. In that case, Hitler's Germany was not a democracy since it was impossible for the people to replace the Fuhrer had they wished to. In Trump's case, we may still be a Democracy but there are worrysome indications ("Trump’s recent musing that there should be no 2026 election may or may not have been jocular").
HDThoreaun 6 hours ago|||
The people voted for border control and law and order, shooting random protesters in cold blood was not part of Trumps platform. It was an obvious conclusion after some thought, but many didnt think that far ahead.
hypeatei 1 day ago|||
I thought a lot of the rhetoric was around economic issues during the 2024 campaign season? I see this argument a lot, and while it's true that a sizable percentage voted for punishment of their political opponents, I don't think independents (in the immigration and "egg prices" camps) wanted this. Trump 2.0 voters should be ashamed because the signs were obvious, but the notion that we need to put kid gloves on for the vile, murderous fascists is asinine.

The next chapter of America needs to be punishing anyone who was apart of these death squads and the officials who allowed it to happen. That's it. There is no statute of limitations on murder or treason. We can't make the same mistakes as we did after the civil war (leniency towards confederates and various compromises)

thrance 1 day ago|||
I actually think disenfranchisement is the only solution. Nazis didn't change their worldview after the war ended, they were shamed for them and learned to hide.

Republicans are now defending straight-up murder in broad daylight by federal forces. I doubt there's anything that could change their minds at this point, they're too far gone.

Herring 12 hours ago||
Yeah Americans don't want to face that their culture is the problem. Trump is still slightly more popular than he was at this point during his first term

https://www.natesilver.net/p/trump-approval-ratings-nate-sil...

They'd have to change the fundamental nature of business. Most US companies are run like tiny little fascist dictatorships, which is a great training ground for the real thing. The relationship between capital (owners/management) and labor is usually adversarial with "at-will" employment. Contrast in Norway, where businesses operate within a 3-way Agreement (Trepartssamarbeidet) - a formal cooperation between the government, employers' associations, and trade unions.

Americans would have to change capitalism too. The most reliable way to prevent the rise of the far right is to implement robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance.

But even in this thread they don't want to do that.

jmclnx 1 day ago||
No doubt with that, ICE seems to be able to kill when and whomever they want. ICE looks close to the brown shirts in Germany in the 30s.
noitpmeder 1 day ago||
They're basically jackboots, I have to imagine almost entirely composed of the republican far right. Just imagine the echo chamber that exists within their ranks.

They literally just murdered someone in cold blood. Textbook execution without trial. And have some of the most powerful people in the world saying how brave they are and how great of a job they did executing their duty.

Their entire recruiting process has the effect of self selecting for the exact kind of person who is significantly more likely to shoot an unarmed nonviolent protestor.

If I recall correctly they even have notably higher salary and signing bonuses compared to similar agencies, which could be (decent pessimistically) interpreted as a way to hoover up more recruits with questionable moral bases. "Oh I really don't think ICE is doing the right thing, but oh boy sign me up for that cash baby".

mickle00 1 day ago||
ICE being the highest funded U.S. law enforcement agency is so sad, and so fucked

https://www.kuow.org/stories/how-ice-grew-to-be-the-highest-...

cookszn 1 day ago||
[dead]
JohnTHaller 1 day ago||
Link for once flagged: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-tr...
judahmeek 10 hours ago|
You can also view flagged posts through https://news.ycombinator.com/active
protastus 1 day ago||
The Trump administration has gone so far down the path of fascism and crime that I'm convinced they don't simply want to be in power indefinitely -- they need it. Otherwise, the moment a law-abiding president gets elected, there will be criminal charges against all involved. And there's no statute of limitations for murder.

I believe this country will need massive investigations and criminal trials to heal. I am concerned with what happens in between, but this is reality as I see it.

hackingonempty 1 day ago||
> I believe this country will need massive investigations and criminal trials to heal. I am concerned with what happens in between, but this is reality as I see it.

Trump learned his lesson and pardoned every Jan 6 terrorist. If he leaves office, he is going to pardon every single person in his administration for anything they did from 2025-2029. There will be no investigations and no criminal trials. They all know this to be true.

Moomoomoo309 15 hours ago|||
Murder can easily be brought up as a state charge, which cannot be pardoned by the president. Only governors can pardon state charges.
bakies 13 hours ago|||
Biden did the pre-emptive pardon thing. Trump will take that precedent and run with it.
queenkjuul 10 hours ago|||
No chance in hell Democrats do a single thing to these people when they're out of power. If anything it'll be a Democrat justifying more ICE shootings so as "not to look weak on immigration"
tstrimple 1 day ago|||
Unfortunately liberals seem to care far more about "unity" than justice in any sense. They have been letting conservatives get away with damaging our country repeatedly throughout the decades and always welcome them back with open bipartisan arms. Maybe we could have nipped this in the bud if the confederate states were forced to de-radicalize like Germany was. Instead literal traitors to our country were right back to running for national office again and have been sowing dissent literally ever since. How many Democrats just voted for even more ICE funding for fucks sake?
mnicky 1 day ago||
Didn't the same happen after Biden was elected? And see, it achieved nothing, regrettably...
protastus 1 day ago||
No, it didn't. Order was not restored, criminals were encouraged, and here we are.
wrs 1 day ago|||
There were investigations. There were indictments (including four of Trump himself). Here we are. What we learned is that the only constitutional remedy is impeachment (which was also tried twice). What has disabled all the checks and balances is the knife-edge Congressional majority, the takeover of the judiciary, and the purging of the civil service. Changing the President stops the active craziness but doesn't address the underlying problem.
mnicky 1 day ago|||
I should have put it differently. I'm afraid that maximum what will be realistically done will be similar to the situation after the Biden got elected. And that didn't help.
shalmanese 21 hours ago||
“For another, the term has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, especially by left-leaning types who call you a fascist if you oppose abortion or affirmative action.”

The left was right too early. Whereas I, the enlightened centrist was right and just the right time.

ZeroGravitas 17 hours ago||
It's useful to rewind and see the tests people put in place before the thing happened.

Like this VOX article surveying experts on fascism in 2015 and then revisiting in 2020:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21521958/what-is-fas...

> But there is still no state management of the economy here (as there was to a degree in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy). Trump is content to aid business by reducing government protections of the environment and of workers … and his economic policy is mainly just to let businessmen do what they want.

Well, we can check that one off the list with 2024 hindsight.

>He’s never actually done a Putin and tried to make himself a permanent president, let alone suggest any coherent plan for overthrowing the constitutional system. And I don’t even think that’s in his mind

And another one bites the dust.

Note that all the scholars who get very technical on what they want to call Fascist all compare him to Marcos, Erdogan, Milosovic. That's still not a good review.

RealityVoid 1 day ago||
I actually think that there is an amalgam of ideologies here (I know, so very fascist of them). Trump is more of a monarchist. A lot of the people supporting him are outright fascists. Some are plain idiots.

Them winning absolute control over the country would be a disaster for their movement though. They'd turn to internal fighting, the entropy of victory and all that. And they don't seem terribly competent with governance, it would probably turn off a lot of smart people, so the country would lose a lot of its capabilities.

EDIT: Also, there are funny things going on with the political submissions. I think there is active interference going on, they get flagged almost immediately. This got flagged and unflagged in the space of a couple minutes, so thanks to the mod team they are letting it up, I think there is important conversation to be had here.

blibble 1 day ago||
> Them winning absolute control over the country would be a disaster for their movement though. They'd turn to internal fighting, the entropy of victory and all that.

that would be after they've finished executing the undesirables?

I am quite amazed that the 2nd amendment people seem to be the ones that are cheering on the federal gestapo

wrs 1 day ago|||
Yes, this is literally the scenario every 2nd amendment fanatic justifies themselves with. But we already knew that made no sense; it doesn't change anything to have the hypocrisy demonstrated.
RealityVoid 1 day ago||||
Not surprised at all, we're dealing with post-truth people here, policy is driven by feeling and perception, not coherency and reality.
mickle00 1 day ago|||
>I am quite amazed that the 2nd amendment people seem to be the ones that are cheering on the federal gestapo

"Rights for me, not for thee"

tstrimple 1 day ago|||
The flagging system has been systematically gamed for restricting content for years now. I don't think the mods deserve any praise for occasionally doing something about it. They are ultimately complicit in the state of things being hidden on this site. It's "working as expected".
mickle00 1 day ago|||
It's sad that these posts are now seemingly disappearing from /active in addition to the home page

They are very relevant to the current state of affairs in America, with respect to tech, immigration, startups, and the hacker ethos

njhnjhnjhnjh 1 day ago||
[flagged]
beardyw 1 day ago|||
> Trump is more of a monarchist

Monarchs are in place without democratic support, so they have little incentive to be popular (though not unpopular either). Not being involved in politics often results in them having a distant concern for their subjects. They rarely instigate policy making. Doesn't sound like Trump.

fugalfervor 1 day ago|||
Stephen Miller is a fascist, no doubt about it. Even if Trump is not a fascist, per se, he's following the advice of -- and delegating authority to -- the fascists that surround him.
Tostino 1 day ago||
And Germany would have been a much larger country economically if Hitler was executed after his first coup attempt. The Weimar government didn't choose that path though, and went for civility.

The brain drain was massive, both before the war, and even more so after. That didn't stop the peasant minded from supporting the Nazi regime though. They got to punish the people who they were told made them poor.

I live in FL, so I get to interact daily with people who are cheering for this crackdown, and have said the equivalent of "those rioters (protestors) should be put down in the street". I don't have much hope for where our country is headed.

The flags on any type of post like this are absolutely ridiculous. Glad the mods are at least for now letting this one stand.

touwer 1 day ago||
The most scaring and amazing thing is not Trump himself, but all the people (suddenly) supporting him and being silent (including too many Democrats) in order to keep their position or for for opportunistic purposes. And destroying democracy along the way. Just like all the secret police agents in Iran or the henchmen of Hitler. CEO's of bigtech. Crypto-libertarians. Too many people are sucking up to wannabe dictators when the moment is there
WickyNilliams 1 day ago||
Same pattern played out in Germany. The centrists were more concerned with leftists than Hitler. Big business thought they could cosy up to him and keep him under control. Opportunistic collaboration for self preservation or personal benefit.

Of course these all turned out to be grave miscalculations. I imagine that pattern will eventually play out this time too...

wrs 1 day ago||
Is it possible their only miscalculation was not realizing how much of the world would fight back? Because if it hadn't, they would have continued enjoying the benefits.
WickyNilliams 1 day ago||
No I don't think so. Broadly they hitched their cart to a genocidal madman. Their hubris convinced them they could maintain a steer on its direction.

The centrists ultimately lost when the Nazis banned other political parties. If they were not murdered first. And the Nazis took control of the German workforce, imposed harsh taxation on businesses, central planning, nationalization etc.

I'm sure the uneasy alliance worked well for a a little while though!

acqq 1 day ago||
Only somebody who isn't aware of whose "Congress speech received multiple standing ovations, touted 'most by any world leader'" would be surprised by that bipartisan support you mention. That happened in 2024, before Trump began his second term, but shows how the system works.
stellalo 21 hours ago||
This should not be flagged.

Flagging this: that’s fascism.

Schmerika 15 hours ago|
HN has always had topics that aren't permitted to be discussed; no matter how relevant or how popular, or how polite the discussions are.

However, this past year has been extreme. Seeing how everything related to Musk and DOGE was removed, for example, was extraordinary.

Anyone who thinks this forum lives up to its rhetoric is simply flat wrong. This place is now a testament to the effectiveness of clever censorship.

tim333 12 hours ago||
It's more tech not politics.
Schmerika 12 hours ago||
Politics is not and was never barred from HN, if that was your point. And, rising fascism would/does directly and massively affect every tech worker in the US.

But we're talking about HN censoring topics, in general - not just politics. I'll give you an example with a tech story I commented on just 3 hours ago [0].

Sourced from the BBC, with a correct headline, not a dupe, generating discussion, upvoted, relevant, important, and in every possible way squarely within HN's remit: But it mentioned Musk in a bad light.

Not only was it flagged, but it was some new kind of uber-flagged. It no longer shows up in new. It doesn't show up in the OP's submissions list. It doesn't show up in my favorites list. You can't comment on it. The link and even the title were completely removed.

That's sheer insanity. Absolutely extraordinary and wholly, completely unjustifiable.

And if you or I were to make a post about this wild level of censorship of a legitimate and important tech story, it would be rapidly removed also. Most likely, you'd be banned if you kept trying (for something completely different, no doubt).

So can we please not pretend that stories about Musk and fascism are being removed for being 'political'. The YC people have picked their dog in this fight, and are very much trying to tip the scales in their favour by censoring the users of this platform.

0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46764789

disgruntledphd2 11 hours ago|||
This is automated, if the story gets enough flags (the [dead] part, that is). It sucks, but this is apparently what (some) of the community want.
Schmerika 10 hours ago||
Since when can you not comment on flagged stories though? Or see them in your own favorites??

Like, I can still comment on other flagged stories even now, but on that one I couldn't. It's since been unflagged, so I guess I can't prove it, but I've never seen this site act like that... Real memory hole stuff.

tim333 7 hours ago||
I was able to comment on that story which is unflagged. Maybe a tech glitch?
Schmerika 5 hours ago||
It was since unflagged, and people can comment on it again, but look at the stamps. There's a good two hours there after the first few comments where no one could say anything.

And during that time it was removed from the submitter's page, the new page, and my favorites (it's back now).

Would have to have been a pretty weird and consistent glitch for a site that hasn't changed much in like 20 years.

Half tempted to email HN and ask what was going on there, only I wouldn't expect honesty.

tim333 7 hours ago|||
The guidelines have on-topic stuff that gratifies one's intellectual anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity

>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

In the last 24 hours there have been three Musk stories and seven Trump.

I can see both sides but Americans in particular tend to turn any forum for statups and intellectual curiosity into Trump Musk Trump Musk Dems Repubs Trump etc. There are other forums where you can of course do that.

wslh 1 day ago|
I don’t understand how there aren’t demonstrations happening almost everywhere in the US by now.
mocheeze 1 day ago||
There are though. Regularly.
gizmov21 1 day ago|||
Seriously lol. MN had HUGE protests the last few days, as did LA when the DHS was there (and why they probably went to somewhere less hostile like MN and soon Maine).
wslh 19 hours ago|||
Could you point please to several of them? I am aware of the Minnesota ones but there are 50 states in the US.
bean469 19 hours ago|||
Because most people don't care enough to protest
cookszn 1 day ago|||
Yea let me go protest the government on behalf of foreigners illegally crossing the border!
le-mark 1 day ago|||
Itis horrendous by any measure. But Fox and conservative media amplify and support it all. Trump voters by and large love the deportations; I know this from my in laws over the holidays. If a few eggs get broken they really don’t care. Notice red states have none of this because Trump focuses ICE on blue states.

Protests are what Trump wants. He would like nothing better than marshal law and cancelling the mid terms. He has said so many times.

EmanueleAina 1 day ago|||
You are not wrong. But history also somewhat shows that appeasement is even worse.
wslh 1 day ago|||
I also wonder how politically weak the US could be if its rivals and adversaries see this level of internal violence as an opportunity to step up pressure or exploit divisions at home.
RealityVoid 1 day ago|||
You think they don't already do this? Social media is astroturfed to hell, even HN is being manipulated. Look how political submissions get flagged. I honestly think the current internet is irredeemable for real conversations about this.
fhdkweig 1 day ago|||
I'm of the opinion that the Russians, through paid online trolling, are responsible for starting this 10 years ago. They helped stoke the fears that got Trump elected the first time.
thunky 1 day ago|||
Don't forget to give CNN the credit it deserves.
krapp 1 day ago|||
The fears that got Trump elected the first time have been a part of American culture since the civil war, if not the founding of the nation itself. You can find echoes of him all the way back to the John Birch Society. This is an entirely American problem.
quercus 1 day ago||
Because most people are happy to see immigration laws enforced.
mingus88 1 day ago|||
Then why isn’t ICE in the states with the most immigrants?
zahlman 10 hours ago|||
They are. (see e.g. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/are-cities-ice-raids-ar...) And they have been, the whole time.

ICE has arrested and deported far more people from Texas than Minnesota (e.g. https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-immigration-crac... https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-states-ice-arrest-immigra... https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/im... many other sources can easily be found).

You don't hear about it so much (unless you go looking) because Texas isn't a sanctuary state. Texas law enforcement supports and assists ICE, and Texas government officials don't encourage protests (and would tell protesters, if asked, not to obstruct and not to resist arrest). So there is no major conflict, minimal protest, and essentially no news coverage.

Minnesota government officials, on the other hand, seem to be interpreting 10A well beyond any precedent I ever heard of, and don't seem particularly interested in the consequences of the Supremacy Clause. In fact they have repeatedly falsely claimed that ICE are "not real law enforcement".

cookszn 1 day ago||||
Immigrants? or illegal immigrants? There’s a huge distinction between an immigrant coming with a visa/green card with a set job and education (net positive to the country)
mickle00 1 day ago|||
logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots
throw0101c 1 day ago|||
> logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots

Let's not forgot and/or (3) going after Minnesota voter roles (per this letter from Pam Bondi):

* https://archive.is/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/...

* https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bondi-minnesota-voter-rolls-wel...

mickle00 1 day ago||
I see that as a subset of 1 (power & control thru fear), but yeah, clearly, and obviously not the 'stated' reasons
mingus88 1 day ago|||
Agreed. If this were about enforcing immigration law, they would first focus on red states with huge immigrant populations, where they would have full cooperation from the local government and citizens who overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Those supporters who care about enforcing immigration laws would directly benefit.

This is obviously violence directed at Minnesota, who is led by a political opponent. It’s capital F Fascism and everyone on the right has grandfathers that are ashamed of them.

zahlman 9 hours ago|||
> If this were about enforcing immigration law, they would first focus on red states with huge immigrant populations

They did; see my other reply.

cogman10 1 day ago||||
> everyone on the right has grandfathers that are ashamed of them.

There's plenty of German heritage in the US. There was a decent number of grandparents who thought the US was on the wrong side of WW2.

quercus 1 day ago|||
Who can resist a little schadenfreude.
scoofy 1 day ago||||
You can be pro-immigration enforcement, while also anti whatever-the-fuck-this-is.

It's called being pro-rule of law.

You're not allowed to just shoot people in the back that are very obviously not a threat, even if their idiotic lack of proper training makes them feel like they're in danger. It's literally South Parkian "they're coming right for us!!!" -- BANG -- as justification for lethal force of an unarmed person in custody.

mickle00 1 day ago|||
source?

The mainstream media is not covering the many daily protests I see in my area, and hear and see from friends and family elsewhere. However, I do think the majority of Americans do not have the luxury (or fear of losing their job, and thus their healthcare, etc) to just walk out on their jobs or responsibilities, and the social safety nets here are limited (and being further cut by this administration).

I do think a general strike is the last chance at a non-violent resistance, but the oligarchs and powerful can weather that storm much more easily than the average American.

quercus 1 day ago||
They literally voted for it.
array_key_first 1 day ago||
They voted for something else, they were conned by populist messaging.
fhdkweig 1 day ago|||
I didn't bother to vote in 2016 because I wasn't paying attention. I was used to politics being about two nearly identical groups who both wanted what was best for America. By 2020 and 2024, everyone should have known who this guy was. He thrived on media attention. Even during the 4 years of Biden, every news article was about him. Everyone knew what he wanted to do, and they voted for what they wanted.
magicalhippo 1 day ago||||
If you voted for Trump and is surprised by anything that's happened the past year, that's like trying to say you thought the 12 year old girl was actually over 18.
quercus 1 day ago|||
Immigration was a pretty big topic during the election. People knew what they were voting for. I find it sad that you find it hard to believe people have civic pride they want to defend.
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