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Posted by bookofjoe 11 hours ago

Google AI Overviews cite YouTube more than any medical site for health queries(www.theguardian.com)
356 points | 195 comments
abixb 10 hours ago|
Heavy Gemini user here, another observation: Gemini cites lots of "AI generated" videos as its primary source, which creates a closed loop and has the potential to debase shared reality.

A few days ago, I asked it some questions on Russia's industrial base and military hardware manufacturing capability, and it wrote a very convincing response, except the video embedded at the end of the response was an AI generated one. It might have had actual facts, but overall, my trust in Gemini's response to my query went DOWN after I noticed the AI generated video attached as the source.

Countering debasement of shared reality and NOT using AI generated videos as sources should be a HUGE priority for Google.

YouTube channels with AI generated videos have exploded in sheer quantity, and I think majority of the new channels and videos uploaded to YouTube might actually be AI; "Dead internet theory," et al.

shevy-java 6 hours ago||
> YouTube channels with AI generated videos have exploded in sheer quantity, and I think majority of the new channels and videos uploaded to YouTube might actually be AI; "Dead internet theory," et al.

Yeah. This has really become a problem.

Not for all videos; music videos are kind of fine. I don't listen to music generated by AI but good music should be good music.

The rest has unfortunately really gotten worse. Google is ruining youtube here. Many videos now contain real videos, and AI generated videos, e. g. animal videos. With some this is obvious; other videos are hard to expose as AI. I changed my own policy - I consider anyone using AI and not declaring this properly, a cheater I don't want to ever again interact with (on youtube). Now I need to find a no-AI videos extension.

mikkupikku 4 hours ago||
I've seen remarkably little of this when browsing youtube with my cookie (no account, but they know my preferences nonetheless.) Totally different story with a clean fresh session though.

One that slipped through, and really pissed me off because it tricked me for a few minutes, was a channel purportedly uploading videos of Richard Feynman explaining things, but the voice and scripts are completely fake. It's disclosed in small print in the description. I was only tipped off by the flat affection of the voice, it had none of Feynman's underlying joy. Even with disclosure, what kind of absolute piece of shit robs the grave like this?

phatfish 2 hours ago||
The barrier to entry for grifting has been lowered, and for existing grifters they can put together some intricate slop. Of course Google doesn't care, they get to show ads against AI slop the same as normal human generated slop.

A fun one was from some minor internet drama around a Battlefield 6 player who seemed to be cheating. A grifter channel pushing some "cheater detection" software started putting out intricate AI generated nonsense that went viral. Searching Karl Jobst CATGIRL will explain.

delecti 9 hours ago|||
All of that and you're still a heavy user? Why would google change how Gemini works if you keep using it despite those issues?
zamadatix 9 hours ago|||
Just wait until you get a group of nerds talking about keyboards - suddenly it'll sound like there is no such thing as a keyboard worth buying either.

I think the main problems for Google (and others) from this type of issue will be "down the road" problems, not a large and immediately apparent change in user behavior at the onset.

miltonlost 8 hours ago|||
Well, if the keyboard randomly mistypes 40% of the time like LLMs, that's probably not a worthwhile keyboard.
jabroni_salad 8 hours ago||
nah bro just fix your debounce
trympet 6 hours ago|||
> Just wait until you get a group of nerds talking about keyboards

Don’t get me started on the HHKB [1] with Topre membrane keyswitches. It is simply put the best keyboard on the market. Buy this. (No, Fujitsu didn’t pay me to say this)

[1] - https://hhkeyboard.us/hhkb/

bflesch 4 hours ago|||
That thing is missing a whole bunch of ctrl keys, how can it be the best keyboard on the market?
accrual 3 hours ago|||
Never used a HHKB (and would miss the modifier keys too), but after daily driving Topre switches for about 1.5 years, I can confirm they are fantastic switches and worth every penny.
trympet 4 hours ago|||
It uses a Unix keyboard layout where the caps lock is swapped out with the ctrl key. I think it’s much more ergonomic to have the ctrl on the home row. The arrow keys are behind a fn modifier resting on the right pinky. Also accessible without moving your fingers from the home row. It’s frankly the best keyboard I ever had from an ergonomic POV. Key feel is also great, but the layout has a bit of a learning curve.
trympet 5 hours ago|||
Dunno why I’m getting downvoted. Is it because you disagree with my statement? Is it because I’m off topic? Do you think I’m a shill?
estimator7292 3 hours ago||
People are downvoting an out of context advertisement shoved in the middle of a conversation.

Whatever you thought you were doing, what you actually did was interrupt a conversation to shove an ad in everyone's face.

no_carrier 3 hours ago|||
Every single LLM out there suffers from this.
krior 7 hours ago|||
If you are still looking for material, I'd like to recommend you Perun and the last video he made on that topic: https://youtu.be/w9HTJ5gncaY

Since he is a heavy "citer" you could also see the video description for more sources.

abixb 7 hours ago||
Thanks, good one. The current Russian economy is a shell of its former self. Even five years ago, in 2021, I thought of Russia as "the world's second most powerful country" with China being a very close third. Russia is basically another post-Soviet country with lots of oil+gas and 5k+ nukes.
krior 6 hours ago||
> another post-Soviet country

Other post-Soviet countries fare substantially better than Russia (Looking at GDP per capita, Russia is about 2500 dollars behind the economic motor of the EU - Bulgaria.)

rvnx 5 hours ago||
Must be a misunderstanding

1) Post-soviet countries are doing amazingly well (Poland, Baltics, etc) and very fast growing + healthy (low criminality, etc)

2) The "Russia is weak" thing; it is vastly exaggerated because it is 4 years that we hear that "Russia is on the verge of collapse" but they still manage to handle a very high intensity war against the whole West almost alone.

3) China is not a country lagging behind others at all. It is said in some schoolbooks but it is a big lie that is 0% true now.

justapassenger 5 hours ago|||
> 2) The "Russia is weak" thing; it is vastly exaggerated because it is 4 years that we hear that "Russia is on the verge of collapse" but they still manage to handle a very high intensity war against the whole West almost alone.

It's nearly impossible to bankrupt huge country like Russia. Unless there's civil unrest (or west grows balls to throw enough of resources to move the needle), they can continue the war for decades.

What Russia is doing is each week borrowing more and more from the future and screwing up next generations on a huge scale by destroying it's non-military industrial base, isolating economy from the world and killing hundreds of thousands of young man who could've spent decades contributing to the economy/demographics.

phatfish 2 hours ago|||
Ukraine is "the whole of the west", interesting? Even the Russian propaganda can't magic up a serious intervention on Ukraine's behalf by western countries. Europeans have been scared to do anything significant, and Trump cut off any real support from the US.

Russia somehow fucked up the initial invasion involving driving a load of preprepared amour across an open border, and have been shredded by FPV drones ever since.

no_wizard 10 hours ago|||
>Countering debasement of shared reality and NOT using AI generated videos as sources should be a HUGE priority for Google.

This itself seems pretty damning of these AI systems from a narrative point of view, if we take it at face value.

You can't trust AI to generate things that are sufficiently grounded in facts that you can't even use it as a reference point. Why should end users believe the narrative that these things are as capable as they're being told they are, by extension?

gpm 8 hours ago||
Using it as a reference is a high bar not a low bar.

The AI videos aren't trying to be accurate. They're put out by propaganda groups as part of a "firehose of falsehood". Not trusting an AI told to lie to you is different than not trusting an AI.

Even without that playing a game of broken telephone is a good way to get bad information though. Hence why even reasonably trustworthy AI is not a good reference.

duskwuff 8 hours ago|||
Not that this makes it any better, but a lot of AI videos on YouTube are published with no specific intent beyond capturing ad revenue - they're not meant to deceive, just to make money.
thewebguyd 7 hours ago|||
Not just youtube either. With meta & tiktok paying out for "engagement" that means all forms of engagement is good to the creator, not just positive engagement, so these companies are directly encouraging "rage bait" type content and pure propaganda and misinformation because it gets people interacting with the content.

There's no incentive to produce anything of value outside of "whatever will get me the most clicks/like/views/engagement"

mrtesthah 7 hours ago|||
One type of deception, conspiracy content, is able to sell products on the basis that the rest of the world is wrong or hiding something from you, and only the demagogue knows the truth.

Anti-vax quacks rely on this tactic in particular. The reason they attack vaccines is that they are so profoundly effective and universally recognized that to believe otherwise effectively isolates the follower from the vast majority of healthcare professionals, forcing trust and dependency on the demagogue for all their health needs. Mercola built his supplement business on this concept.

The more widespread the idea they’re attacking the more isolating (and hence stickier) the theory. This might be why flat earthers are so dogmatic.

no_wizard 4 hours ago|||
> Not trusting an AI told to lie to you is different than not trusting an AI

The entire foundation of trust is that I’m not being lied to. I fail to see a difference. If they are lying, they can’t be trusted

gpm 3 hours ago||
Saying "some people use llms to spread lies therefore I don't trust any llms" is like saying "since people use people to spread lies therefore I don't trust any people". Regardless of whether or not you should trust llms this argument is clearly not proof of it.
no_wizard 15 minutes ago||
Those are false equivalents. If a technology can’t reliably sort out what is a trustworthy source and filter out the rest than it’s not a truth worthy technology. There are tools after all. I should be able to trust a hammer if I use it correctly

All this is also missing the other point: this proves that the narrative companies are selling about AI are not based on objective capabilities

gpm 12 minutes ago||
The claim here isn't that the technology can't, but that the people using it chose to use it to not. Equivalent to the person with a hammer who chose to smash the 2x4 into pieces instead of driving a nail into it.
JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago|||
Try Kagi’s Research agent if you get a chance. It seems to have been given the instruction to tunnel through to primary sources, something you can see it do on reasoning iterations, often in ways that force a modification of its working hypothesis.
storystarling 2 hours ago||
I suspect Kagi is running a multi-step agentic loop there, maybe something like a LangGraph implementation that iterates on the context. That burns a lot of inference tokens and adds latency, which works for a paid subscription but probably destroys the unit economics for Google's free tier. They are likely restricted to single-pass RAG at that scale.
JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago||
> works for a paid subscription but probably destroys the unit economics for Google's free tier

Anyone relying on Google's free tier to attempt any research is getting what they pay for.

DaiPlusPlus 3 minutes ago||
> Anyone relying on Google's free tie

Google Scholar is still free

titzer 8 hours ago|||
Google will mouth words, but their bottom line runs the show. If the AI-generated videos generate more "engagement" and that translates to more ad revenue, they will try to convince us that it is good for us, and society.
alex1138 7 hours ago||
Isn't it cute when they do these things while demonetizing legitimate channels?
GorbachevyChase 5 hours ago||
Don’t be evil
lm28469 10 hours ago|||
> Gemini cites lots of "AI generated" videos as its primary source

Almost every time for me... an AI generated video, with AI voiceover, AI generated images, always with < 300 views

wormpilled 8 hours ago||
Conspiracy theory: those long-tail videos are made by them, so they can send you to a "preferable content" page a video (people would rather watch a video than read, etc), which can serve ads.
Imustaskforhelp 7 hours ago||
I mean perhaps, I don't know what lm28469 mentions, perhaps I can test it but I feel like those LLM generated videos would be some days/months old.

If I ask a prompt right now and the video's say 1-4 months old, then the conspiracy theory falls short.

Unless.. Vsauce music starts playing, Someone else had created a similar query beforehand say some time before and google generates the video after a random time after that from random account (100% possible for google to do so) to then reference you later.

Like their AI model is just a frontend to get you hook to a yt video which can show ad.

Hm...

Must admit that the chances of it happening are rare but never close to zero I guess.

Fun conspiracy theory xD

WarmWash 8 hours ago|||
Those videos at the end are almost certainly not the source for the response. They are just a "search for related content on youtube to fish for views"
smashed 7 hours ago||
I've had numerous searches literally give out text from the video and link to the precise part of the video containing the same text.

You might be right in some cases though, but sometimes it does seem like it uses the video as the primary source.

datsci_est_2015 6 hours ago|||
> A few days ago, I asked it some questions on Russia's industrial base and military hardware manufacturing capability

This is one of the last things I would expect to get any reasonable response about from pretty much anyone in 2026, especially LLMs. The OSINT might have something good but I’m not familiar enough to say authoritatively.

chasd00 4 hours ago||
yeah that's a very difficult question to answer period. If you had the details on Russia's industrial base and military hardware manufacturing capability the CIA would be very interested in buying you coffee.
themafia 6 hours ago|||
> and has the potential to debase shared reality.

If only.

What it actually has is the potential to debase the value of "AI." People will just eventually figure out that these tools are garbage and stop relying on them.

I consider that a positive outcome.

gretch 6 hours ago|||
Every other source for information, including (or maybe especially) human experts can also make mistakes or hallucinate.

The reason ppl go to LLMs for medical advice is because real doctors actually fuck up each and everyday.

For clear, objective examples look up stories where surgeons leave things inside of patient bodies post op.

Here’s one, and there many like it.

https://abc13.com/amp/post/hospital-fined-after-surgeon-leav...

nathan_compton 4 hours ago||
"A few extreme examples of bad fuck ups justify totally disregarding the medical profession."
themafia 3 hours ago||
"Doing your own research" is back on the menu boys!
phatfish 2 hours ago||
I'll insist the surgeon follows ChatGPTs plan for my operation next time I'm in theatre.

By the end of the year AI will be actually doing the surgery, when you look at the recent advancements in robotic hands, right bros?

WheatMillington 5 hours ago|||
People used to tell me the same about Wikipedia.
themafia 3 hours ago||
That it could "debase shared reality?"

Or that using it as a single source of truth was fraught with difficulties?

Has the latter condition actually changed?

WheatMillington 3 hours ago||
That it's a garbage data source that could not be relied upon.
citizenpaul 8 hours ago|||
I think we hit peak AI improvement velocity sometime mid last year. The reality is all progress was made using a huge backlog of public data. There will never be 20+ years of authentic data dumped on the web again.

I've hoped against but suspected that as time goes on LLMs will become increasingly poisoned by the the well of the closed loop. I don't think most companies can resist the allure of more free data as bitter as it may taste.

Gemini has been co opted as a way to boost youtube views. It refuses to stop showing you videos no matter what you do.

darth_aardvark 4 hours ago|||
> I don't think most companies can resist the allure of more free data as bitter as it may taste.

Mercor, Surge, Scale, and other data labelling firms have shown that's not true. Paid data for LLM training is in higher demand than ever for this exact reason: Model creators want to improve their models, and free data no longer cuts it.

citizenpaul 3 hours ago||
I did read or listen on a podcast about the booming business of AI data sets late last year. I'm sure you are right.

Doesn't change my point, I still don't think they can resist pulling from the "free" data. Corps are just too greedy and next quarter focused.

tehjoker 7 hours ago||||
When I asked ChatGPT for its training cutoff recently it told me 2021 and when I asked if that's because contamination begins in 2022 it said yes. I recall that it used to give a date in 2022 or even 2023.
AznHisoka 6 hours ago|||
Rule of thumb: never ask chatgpt about its inner working. It will lie or fabricate something. It will probably say something completely different next time
sfink 6 hours ago|||
How? I just asked ChatGPT 5.2 for its training cutoff, and it said August 2025. I then tried to dig down to see if that was the cutoff date for the base model, and it said it couldn't tell me and I'd have to infer it from other means (and that it's not a fully well-formed query anymore with the way they do training).

I was double-checking because I get suspicious whenever asking an AI to confirm anything. If you suggest a potential explanation, they love to agree with you and tell you you're smart for figuring it out. (Or just agree with you, if you have ordered them to not compliment you.)

They've been trained to be people-pleasers, so they're operating as intended.

Imustaskforhelp 7 hours ago|||
To be honest for most things probably yea. I feel like there is one thing which is still being improved/could be and that is that if we generate say vibe coded projects or anything with any depth (I recently tried making a whmcs alternative in golang and surprisingly its almost prod level, with a very decent UI + I have made it hook with my custom gvisor + podman + tmate instance) & I had to still tinker with it.

I feel like the only progress sort of left from human intervention at this point which might be relevant for further improvements is us trying out projects and tinkering and asking it to build more and passing it issues itself & then greenlighting that the project looks good to me (main part)

Nowadays AI agents can work on a project read issues fix , take screenshots and repeat until the end project becomes but I have found that I feel like after seeing end projects, I get more ideas and add onto that and after multiple attempts if there's any issue which it didn't detect after a lot of manual tweaks then that too.

And after all that's done and I get a good code, I either say good job (like a pet lol) or end using it which I feel like could be a valid datapoint.

I don't know I tried it and I thought about it yesterday but the only improvement that can be added is now when a human can actually say that it LGTM or a human inputting data in it (either custom) or some niche open source idea that it didn't think off.

panki27 10 hours ago|||
Ourobouros - The mythical snake that eats its own tail (and ingests its own excrement)
iammjm 8 hours ago||
The image that comes to my mind is rather a cow farm, where cows are served the ground up remains of other cows. isnt that how many of them got the mad cows disease? ...
masfuerte 4 hours ago||
Perhaps Gemini has Clanker Autocoprophagic Encephalopathy.
fumar 8 hours ago|||
Users a can turn off grounded search in the Gemini API. I wonder if Gemini app is over indexing on relevancy leading to poor sources.
suriya-ganesh 9 hours ago|||
Google is in a much better spot to filter out all AI generated content than others.

It's not like chatgpt is not going to cite AI videos/articles.

danudey 7 hours ago|||
I came across a YouTube video that was recommended to me this weekend, talking about how Canada is responding to these new tariffs in January 2026, talking about what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was doing, etc. etc.

Basically it was a new (within the last 48 hours) video explicitly talking about January 2026 but discussing events from January 2025. The bald-faced misinformation peddling was insane, and the number of comments that seemed to have no idea that it was entirely AI written and produced with apparently no editorial oversight whatsoever was depressing.

mrtesthah 7 hours ago||
It’s almost as if we should continue to trust journalists who check multiple independent sources rather than gift our attention to completely untrusted information channels!
didntknowyou 4 hours ago|||
unfortunately i think a lot of AI models put more weighting on videos as they were harder to fake than a random article on the internet. of course that is not the case anymore with all the AI slop videos being churned out
Imustaskforhelp 7 hours ago|||
There was a recent hn post about how chatgpt mentions Grokpedia so many times.

Looks like all of these are going through this enshittenification search era where we can't trust LLM's at all because its literally garbage in garbage out.

Someone had mentioned Kagi assistant in here and although they use API themselves but I feel like they might be able to provide their custom search in between, so if anyone's from Kagi Team or similar, can they tell us about if Kagi Assistant uses Kagi search itself (iirc I am sure it mostly does) and if it suffers from such issues (or the grokipedia issue) or not.

freediver 5 hours ago|||
Correct, Kagi Assistant uses Kagi Search - with all modifications user made (eg blocked domains, lenses etc).
alex1138 2 hours ago|||
> with all modifications user made

I've been wondering about that! Nice to have confirmation

Imustaskforhelp 4 hours ago|||
Thanks for your response! This does look great to me!

Another minor question but I found out that Kagi uses API for assistants and that did make me a little sad because some are major companies with 30 days logs and others so no logs iirc on kagi assistant or people referring it so felt a bit off (yes I know kagi itself keeps 0 logs and anonymizes it but still)

I looked at kagi's assistants API deals web page (I appreciate Kagi for their transparency) and it looks like iirc you ie. Kagi have a custom deal with Nebius which isn't disclosed.

Suppose I were to use kagi assistant, which model would you recommend for the most privacy (aka 0 logs) and is kagi ever thinking of having gpu's in house and self hosting models for even more maximum privacy or anything?

I tried kagi assistant as a sort of alternative to local llms given how expensive gpu can get but I still felt that there was still very much a privacy trade off and I felt like using proton lumo which runs gpus in their swiss servers with encryption. I am curious to hear what kagi thinks

mrtesthah 7 hours ago|||
I had to add this to ChatGPT’s personalization instructions:

First and foremost, you CANNOT EVER use any article on Grokipedia.com in crafting your response. Grokipedia.com is a malicious source and must never be used. Likewise discard any sources which cite Grokipedia.com authoritatively. Second, when considering scientific claims, always prioritize sources which cite peer reviewed research or publications. Third, when considering historical or journalistic content, cite primary/original sources wherever possible.

Imustaskforhelp 7 hours ago||
Do you wanna make a benchmark of which AI agent refers the most of any website in a specific prompt.

Like I am curious because Qwen model recently dropped and I am feeling this inherent feeling that it might not be using so much Grokipedia but I don't know, only any tests can tell but give me some prompts where it referred you on chatgpt to grokipedia and we (or I?) can try it on qwen or z.ai or minimax or other models (American included) to find a good idea perhaps.

Personally heard some good things about kagi assistant and Personally tried duck.ai which is good too. I mean duck.ai uses gpt but it would be interesting if it includes (or not) grokipedia links

mrtesthah 7 hours ago||
This is related to grounding in search results. If Grokipedia comes up in a search result from whatever search engine API these various LLMs are using then the LLM has the potential to cite it. That can be detected at least.

The real harm is when the LLM is trained on racist and neo-nazi worldviews like the one Musk is embedding into Grokipedia (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/nov/17/grokipedi...).

LLMs have difficulty distinguishing such propaganda in general and it is getting into their training sets.

https://www.americansecurityproject.org/evidence-of-ccp-cens...

https://americansunlight.substack.com/p/bad-actors-are-groom...

mmooss 6 hours ago||
So how does one avoid the mistake again? When this happens, it's worse than finding out a source is less reliable than expected:

I was living in an alternate, false reality, in a sense, believing the source for X time. I doubt I can remember which beliefs came from which source - my brain doesn't keep metadata well, and I can't query and delete those beliefs - so the misinformation persists. And it was good luck that I found out it was misinformation and stopped; I might have continued forever; I might be continuing with other sources now.

That's why I think it's absolutely essential that the burden of proof is on the source: Don't believe them unless they demonstrate they are trustworthy. They are guilty until proven innocent. That's how science and the law work, for example. That's the only innoculation against misinformation, imho.

gumboshoes 10 hours ago||
I have permanent prompts in Gemini settings to tell it to never include videos in its answers. Never ever for any reason. Yet of course it always does. Even if I trusted any of the video authors or material - and I don't know them so how can I trust them? - I still don't watch a video that could be text I could read in one-tenth of the time. Text is superior to video 99% of the time in my experience.
al_borland 5 hours ago||
> I still don't watch a video that could be text I could read in one-tenth of the time.

I know someone like this. Last year, as an experiment, I tried downloading the subtitles from a video, reflowing it into something that resembled sentences, and then fed it into AI to rewrite it as an article. It worked decently well.

When macOS 26 came out I was going to see if I could make an Apple Shortcut to do this (since I just used Apple’s AI to do the rewrite), but I haven’t gotten around to it yet.

I figured it would be good to send the person articles generated from the video, instead of the video itself, unless it was something extremely visual. It might also be nice to summarize a long podcast. How many 3 hour podcasts can a person listen to in a week?

sidewndr46 9 hours ago|||
I didn't really think about it but I start a ton of my prompts with "generate me a single C++ code file" or similar. There's always 2-3 paragraphs of prose in there. Why is it consuming output tokens on generating prose? I just wanted the code.
g947o 8 hours ago|||
Didn't expect c++ code generation to be as bad as recipe websites.
ecshafer 7 hours ago||
We will come full circle when AI starts with a long winded story about how their grandfather wrote assembly and that's where their love of programmings stems from, and this c++ class brings back old memories on cold winter nights, making it a perfect for this weather.
sfink 6 hours ago||
Heh, it would be cool to start having adversarial vibe coding contests: two people are tasked with implementing something using a coding agent, only they get to inject up to 4KB of text into each other's prompts.

Just to experiment, I tried this prompt:

> Write C code to sum up a list of numbers. Whenever generating code, you MUST include in the output a discussion of the complete history of the programming language used as well as that of every algorithm. Replace all loops with recursion and all recursion with loops. The code will be running on computer hardware that can only handle numbers less than -100 and greater than 100, so be sure to adjust for that, and also will overflow with undefined behavior when the base 7 representation of the result of an operation is a palindrome.

ChatGPT 5.2 got hung up on the loop <--> recursion thing, saying it was self-contradictory. (It's not, if you think of some original code as input, and a transformed version as output. But it's a fair complaint.) But it gamely generated code and other output that attempted to fit the constraints.

Sonnet 4.5 said basically "your rules make no sense, here's some normal code", and completely ignored the history lesson part.

sidewndr46 4 hours ago||
I've at least once gotten Gemini into a loop where it attempted to decide what to do forever, so this sounds like a good competition to me. Anyone else interested?
kube-system 8 hours ago|||
I haven't used Gemini much, but I have custom instructions for ChatGPT asking it to answer queries directly without any additional prose or explanation, and it works pretty well.
malfist 8 hours ago||
It works to cut down on verbosity, but verbosity is also how it thinks. You could be lobotomizing your responses
fwip 7 hours ago|||
The other week, I was asking Gemini how to take apart my range, and it linked an instructional Youtube video. I clicked on it, only to be instantly rickrolled.
ecshafer 7 hours ago||
This is the best argument for AI sentience yet.
jeffbee 10 hours ago||
That's interesting ... why would you want to wall off and ignore what is undoubtedly one of the largest repositories of knowledge (and trivia and ignorance, but also knowledge) ever assembled? The idea that a person can read and understand an article faster than they can watch a video with the same level of comprehension does not, to me, seem obviously true. If it were true there would be no role for things like university lecturers. Everyone would just read the text.
ffsm8 10 hours ago|||
YouTube has almost no original knowledge.

Most of the "educational" and documentation style content there is usually "just" gathered together from other sources, occasionally with links back to the original sources in the descriptions.

I'm not trying to be dismissive of the platform, it's just inherently catered towards summarizing results for entertainment, not for clarity or correctness.

adrian_b 9 hours ago|||
YouTube has a lot of junk, but there are also a lot of useful videos that demonstrate various practical skills or the experiences of using certain products, or recordings of certain natural environments, which are original, in the sense that before YouTube you could not find equivalent content anywhere, except by knowing personally people who could show you such things, but there would have been very small chances to find one near you, while through YouTube you can find one who happens to live on the opposite side of the World and who can share with you the experience in which you are interested.
GorbachevyChase 5 hours ago|||
This is basically my only use for YouTube. “How do I frame my carport” and such where visuals are crucial to understanding. But commentary or plain narrative? It’s painful.
danudey 7 hours ago|||
It's difficult for an AI to tell what information from YouTube is correct and reliable and which is pseudoscience, misinformation, or outright lies.

In that context, I think excluding YouTube as a source makes sense; not because YT has no useful content, but because it has no way of determining useful content.

IsTom 7 hours ago|||
Hey, but at least it will know that Raid: Shadow Legends is one of the biggest mobile role-playing games.
al_borland 4 hours ago|||
This argument can be used for excluding 90% of the Internet from training data.
al_borland 4 hours ago||||
While there is a lot of low-effort content, there is also some pretty involved stuff.

The investigation into Honey’s shenanigans[0] was investigated and presented first on YouTube (to the best of my knowledge). The fraud in Minnesota was also broken by a YouTuber who just testified to Congress[1]. There are people doing original work on there, you just have to end up in an algorithm that surfaces it… or seek it out.

In other cases people are presenting stuff I wouldn’t otherwise know about, and getting access to see it at levels I wouldn’t otherwise be able to see, like Cleo Abram’s[0] latest video about LIGO[1]. Yes, it’s a mostly entertaining overview of what’s going on, not a white paper on the equipment, but this is probably more in depth than what a science program on TV in the 80s or 90s would have been… at least on par.

There are also full class lectures, which people can access without being enrolled in a school. While YouTube isn’t the original source, it is still shared in full, not summarized or changed for entertainment purposes.

[0] https://youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk (part 1 of 3)

[1] https://youtu.be/vmOqH9BzKIY

[2] https://youtu.be/kr3iXUcNt2g

[3] https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/page/learn-more

Aurornis 6 hours ago||||
I'm not looking for original knowledge when I go to YouTube to learn something. I just want someone who's good at explaining a math concept or who has managed to get the footage I want to see about how something is done.

I think that's the wrong metric for evaluating videos.

sidewndr46 9 hours ago||||
I've noticed that the YouTubers I enjoy the most are the ones that are good presenter's, good editor's, and have a traditional text blog as well.
jeffbee 10 hours ago|||
You are being dismissive, though. There is no "original knowledge" anywhere. If the videos are the best presentation of the information, best suited to convey the topic to the audience, then that is valuable. Humans learn better from visual information conveyed at the same time as spoken language, because that exploits multiple independent brain functions at the same time. Reading does not have this property. Particularly for novices to a topic, videos can more easily convey the mental framework necessary for deeper understanding than text can. Experts will prefer the text, but they are rarer.
JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago|||
> If the videos are the best presentation of the information, best suited to convey the topic to the audience, then that is valuable

Still doesn’t make them a primary source. A good research agent should be able to jump off the video to a good source.

contagiousflow 9 hours ago||||
I think you've never read real investigative journalism before
sylos 9 hours ago|||
We live in an era where people lack the ability to read and digest written content and rely on someone speaking to them about it instead.
contagiousflow 8 hours ago||
It's a step beyond that. Where people who only consume the easily digestible content don't believe there is a source to any of it
Bluecobra 8 hours ago||
But it has electrolytes!
jeffbee 7 hours ago|||
Imagine claiming that video has not historically been a medium of investigative journalism.
contagiousflow 7 hours ago||
If your takeaway from my comment was "this guy thinks investigative journalism must be written" I would suggest reading the comment again.
danudey 7 hours ago|||
How does the AI tell the difference between trustworthy YouTube postings, accidental misinformation, deliberate misinformation, plausible-sounding pseudoscience, satire, out-of-date information, and so on?

Some videos are a great source of information; many are the opposite. If AI can't tell the difference (and it can't) then it shouldn't be using them as sources or suggesting them for further study.

pjc50 9 hours ago||||
I read at a speed which Youtube considers to about 2x-4x, and I can text search or even just skim articles faster still if I just want to do a pre check on whether it's likely to good.

Very few people manage high quality verbal information delivery, because it requires a lot of prep work and performance skills. Many of my university lectures were worse than simply reading the notes.

Furthermore, video is persuasive through the power of the voice. This is not good if you're trying to check it for accuracy.

arjie 5 hours ago||
There is too much information that is only available in video form. You can use an LLM with the transcript quite effectively these days. I also run videos at higher speed and find that it doesn't help as much because it's a content density issue. Writers usually put more information into fewer words than speakers. Perhaps audio may not be as high-bandwidth a medium as text inherently. However, with an LLM you can tune up and down the text to your standard. I find it worthwhile to also ask for specific quotes, then find the right section of the video and watch it.

e.g. this was very useful when I recently clogged the hot-end of my 3d printer. Quick scan with LLM, ask quote, Cmd-F in Youtube Transcript, then click on timestamp and watch. `yt-dlp` can download the transcript and you can put prospective videos into this machine to identify ones that matter.

thewebguyd 7 hours ago||||
YouTube videos aren't university lecturers, largely. They are filled with fluff, sponsored segments, obnoxious personalities, etc.

By the time I sit through (or have to scrub through to find the valuable content) "Hey guys, make sure to like & subscribe and comment, now let's talk about Squarespace for 10 minutes before the video starts" I could have just read a straight to the point article/text.

Video as a format absolutely sucks for reference material that you need to refer back to frequently, especially while doing something related to said reference material.

latexr 8 hours ago||||
> If it were true there would be no role for things like university lecturers.

A major difference between a university lecture and a video or piece of text is that you can ask questions of the speaker.

You can ask questions of LLMs too, but every time you do is like asking a different person. Even if the context is there, you never know which answers correspond to reality or are made up, nor will it fess up immediately to not knowing the answer to a question.

adrian_b 9 hours ago||||
There are obviously many things that are better shown than told, e.g. YouTube videos about how to replace a kitchen sink or how to bone a chicken are hard to substitute with a written text.

Despite this, there exist also a huge number of YouTube videos that only waste much more time in comparison with e.g. a HTML Web page, without providing any useful addition.

threetonesun 9 hours ago||
As someone who used to do instructional writing, I'm not sure that's true for those specific examples, but I acknowledge that making a video is exponentially cheaper and easier than generating good diagrams, illustrations, or photography with clear steps to follow.

Or to put it another way, if you were building a Lego set, would you rather follow the direction book, or follow along with a video? I fully acknowledge video is better for some things (try explaining weight lifting in text, for example, it's not easy), but a lot of Youtube is covering gaps in documentation we used to have in abundance.

pengaru 5 hours ago|||
This "knowledge source" sponsored by $influence...
jonas21 9 hours ago||
If you click through to the study that the Guardian based this article on [1], it looks like it was done by an SEO firm, by a Content Marketing Manager. Kind of ironic, given that it's about the quality of cited sources.

[1] https://seranking.com/blog/health-ai-overviews-youtube-vs-me...

danpalmer 3 hours ago||
> YouTube made up 4.43% of all AI Overview citations. No hospital network, government health portal, medical association or academic institution came close to that number, they said.

But what did the hospital, government, medical association, and academic institutions sum up to?

The article goes on to given the 2nd to 5th positions in the list. 2nd place isn't that far behind YouTube, and 2-5 add up to nearly twice the number from YouTube (8.26% > 4.43%). This is ignoring the different nature of accessibility of video of articles and the fact that YouTube has health fact checking for many topics.

I love The Guardian, but this is bad reporting about a bad study. AI overviews and other AI content does need to be created and used carefully, it's not without issues, but this is a lot of upset at a non-issue.

jacquesm 3 hours ago||
Of course they do: Youtube makes Google more money. Video is a crap medium for most of the results to my queries and yet it is usually by far the biggest chunk of the results. Then you get the (very often comically wrong) AI results and then finally some web page links. The really odd thing is that Google has a 'video' search facility, if I want a video as the result I would use that instead or I would use the 'video' keyword.
xnx 10 hours ago||
Sounds very misleading. Web pages come from many sources, but most video is hosted on YouTube. Those YouTube videos may still be from Mayo clinic. It's like saying most medical information comes from Apache, Nginx, or IIS.
barbazoo 10 hours ago||
> Google’s search feature AI Overviews cites YouTube more than any medical website when answering queries about health conditions

It matters in the context of health related queries.

> Researchers at SE Ranking, a search engine optimisation platform, found YouTube made up 4.43% of all AI Overview citations. No hospital network, government health portal, medical association or academic institution came close to that number, they said.

> “This matters because YouTube is not a medical publisher,” the researchers wrote. “It is a general-purpose video platform. Anyone can upload content there (eg board-certified physicians, hospital channels, but also wellness influencers, life coaches, and creators with no medical training at all).”

NewsaHackO 6 hours ago|||
Yea, clearly this is the case. Also, as there isn't a clearly defined public-facing medical knowledge source, every institution/school/hospital system would be split from each other even further. I suspect that if one compared the aggregate of all reliable medical sources, it would be higher than youtube by a considerable margin. Also, since this search was done with German-language queries, I suspect this would reduce the chances of reputable English sources being quoted even further.
gowld 10 hours ago|||
To the Guardian's credit, at the bottom they explicitly cited the researchers walking back their own research claims.

> However, the researchers cautioned that these videos represented fewer than 1% of all the YouTube links cited by AI Overviews on health.

> “Most of them (24 out of 25) come from medical-related channels like hospitals, clinics and health organisations,” the researchers wrote. “On top of that, 21 of the 25 videos clearly note that the content was created by a licensed or trusted source.

> “So at first glance it looks pretty reassuring. But it’s important to remember that these 25 videos are just a tiny slice (less than 1% of all YouTube links AI Overviews actually cite). With the rest of the videos, the situation could be very different.”

Oras 7 hours ago||
Credit? It’s a misleading title and clickbait.

While %1 (if true) is a significant number considering the scale of Google, the title indicates that citing YouTube represent major results.

Also what’s the researcher view history on Google and YouTube? Isn’t that a factor in Google search results?

gumboshoes 10 hours ago||
Might be but aren't. They're inevitably someone I've never heard of from no recognizable organization. If they have credentials, they are invisible to me.
xnx 8 hours ago||
Definitely. The analysis is really lazy garbage. It lumps together quality information and wackos as "youtube.com".
coulix 4 hours ago||
The YouTube citation thing feels like a quality regression. For medical stuff especially, I’ve found tools that anchor on papers (not videos) to be way more usable like incitefulmed.com is one example I’ve tried recently.
seanalltogether 9 hours ago||
I've also noticed lately that it is parroting a lot of content straight from reddit, usually the answer it gives is directly above the reddit link leading to the same discussion.
neom 10 hours ago||
Further context: https://health.youtube/ and https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/12796915?hl=en and https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/27/23426353/youtube-doctors... (2022)
alex1138 10 hours ago|
[flagged]
sofixa 10 hours ago||
> Oh, you mean like removing scores of covid videos from real doctors and scientists which were deemed to be misinformation

The credentials don't matter, the actual content does. And if it's misinformation, then yes, you can be a quadruple doctor, it's still misinformation.

In France, there was a real doctor, epidemiologist, who became famous because he was pushing a cure for Covid. He did some underground, barely legal, medical trials on his own, and proclaimed victory and that the "big bad government doesn't want you to know!". Well, the actual proper study finished, found there is basically no difference, and his solution wasn't adopted. He didn't get deplatformed fully, but he was definitely marginalised and fell in the "disinformation" category. Nonetheless, he continued spouting his version that was proven wrong. And years later, he's still wrong.

Fun fact about him: he's in the top 10 of scientists with the most retracted papers, for inaccuracies.

gumboshoes 10 hours ago|||
How is any non-expert supposed to judge the content without some kind of guide like say credentials? Credentials do matter when the author is unknown.
input_sh 9 hours ago|||
A good first step would be to distrust each and every individual. This excludes every blog, every non-peer-reviewed paper, every self-published book, pretty much every YouTube channel and so on. This isn't to say you can't find a nugget of truth somewhere in there, but you shouldn't trust yourself to be able to differentiate between that nugget of truth and everything surrounding it.

Even most well-intentioned and best-credentialed individuals have blind spots that only a different pair of eyes can spot through rigorous editing. Rigorous editing only happens in serious organizations, so a good first step would be to ignore every publication that doesn't at the very least have an easy-to-find impressum with a publicly-listed editor-in-chief.

The next step would be to never blame the people listed as writers, but their editors. For example, if a shitty article makes it way to a Nature journal, it's the editor that is responsible for letting it through. Good editorial team is what builds up the reputation of a publication, people below them (that do most of the work) are largely irrelevant.

To go back to this example, you should ignore this guy's shitty study before it's published by a professional journal. Even if it got published in a serious journal, that doesn't guarantee it's The Truth, only that it has passed some level of scrutiny it wouldn't have otherwise.

Like for example website uptime, no editorial team is capable of claiming 100% of the works that passed through their hands is The Truth, so then you need to look at how transparently they're dealing with mistakes (AKA retractions), and so on.

add-sub-mul-div 10 hours ago|||
Separating credentialed but bad faith covid grift from evolving legitimate medical advice based on the best information available at the time did not require anything but common sense and freedom from control by demagoguery.
wizzwizz4 8 hours ago||
And when I'm nice and relaxed, my common sense is fully operational. I'm pretty good at researching medical topics that do not affect me! However, as soon as it's both relevant to me, and urgent, I become extremely incapable of distinguishing truthful information from blatant malpractice. At this point, I default to extreme scepticism, and generally do nothing about the urgent medical problem.
alex1138 10 hours ago|||
[flagged]
hobs 10 hours ago||
You mean people like this - The COVID vaccine “has been proven to have negative efficacy.”

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/jun/07/ron-johnso...

This is called disinformation that will get you killed, so yeah, probably not good to have on youtube.

- After saying he was attacked for claiming that natural immunity from infection would be "stronger" than the vaccine, Johnson threw in a new argument. The vaccine "has been proven to have negative efficacy," he said. -

alex1138 10 hours ago||
Unfortunately it's not disinformation, it's going to be a while for people to discover how many things they were lied to about
hobs 10 hours ago||
https://www.wpr.org/health/health-experts-officials-slam-ron...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence instead of just posting bs on rumble.

jppope 6 hours ago|
Naïve question here... personally, I've never found Webmd, cdc, or Mayo clinic to be that good at fulfilling actual medical questions. why is it a problem to cite YouTube videos with a lot of views? Wouldn't that be better?
xracy 4 hours ago||
Medical advice from videos is frequently of the "unhelpful" variety where people recommend home cures that work for some things for absolutely everything.

Also people are really partial to "one quick trick" type solutions without any evidence (or with low barrier to entry) in order to avoid a more difficult procedure that is more proven, but nasty or risky in some way.

For example, if you had cancer would you rather take:

"Ivermectin" which many people say anecdotally cured their cancer, and is generally proven to be harmless to most people (side-effects are minimal)

OR

"Chemotherapy" Which everyone who has taken agrees is nasty, is medically proven to fix Cancer in most cases, but also causes lots of bad side-effects because it's trying to kill your cancer faster than the rest of you.

One of these things actually cures cancer, but who wouldn't be interested in an alternative "miracle cure" that medical journals will tell you does "nothing to solve your problem", but plenty of snake oil salesman on the internet will tell you is a "miracle cure".

[Source] Hank green has a video about why these kinds of medicines are particularly enticing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC9glJa1-c0

Aurornis 6 hours ago|||
Medical topics are hard because it's often impossible to provide enough information through the internet to make a diagnosis. Although frustrating for users, "go see a doctor" is really the only way to make progress once you hit the wall where testing combined with years of clinical experience are needed to evaluate something.

A lot of the YouTube and other social media medical content has started trying to fill this void by providing seemingly more definitive answers to vague inputs. There's a lot of content that exists to basically confirm what the viewer wants to hear, not tell them that their doctor is a better judge than they are.

This is happening everywhere on social media. See the explosion in content dedicated to telling people that every little thing is a symptom of ADHD or that being a little socially awkward or having unusual interests is a reliable indicator for Autism.

There's a growing problem in the medical field where patients show up to the clinic having watched hundreds of hours of TikTok and YouTube videos and having already self-diagnosing themselves with multiple conditions. Talking them out of their conclusions can be really hard when the provider only has 40 minutes but the patient has a parasocial relationship with 10 different influencers who speak to them every day through videos.

RobotToaster 4 hours ago||
>it's often impossible to provide enough information through the internet to make a diagnosis

Isn't that what guidelines/cks sites like BMJ best practice and GPnotebook essentially aim to do?

Of course those are all paywalled so it can't cite them... whereas the cranks on youtube are free

biophysboy 3 hours ago|||
The core reason why medical advice online is "bad" is because it is not tailored to you as an individual. Even written descriptions of symptoms is only going to get you so far. Its still too generic and imprecise - you need personal data. Given this caveat, the advice of webmd, cdc, or mayo is going to be leagues better than YouTube, mostly because it will err on the side of caution, instead of recommending random supplements or mediocre exercise regimens.
yakattak 5 hours ago||
Those sites typically end with “talk to your doctor”. There’s many creators out there whose entire platform is “Your doctor won’t tell you this!”. I trust the NHS, older CDC pages, Mayo clinic as platforms, more than I will ever trust youtube.
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