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Posted by qassiov 11 hours ago

Television is 100 years old today(diamondgeezer.blogspot.com)
509 points | 174 comments
tzs 42 minutes ago|
I've sometimes wondered how things would have been different if the TV pioneers had went with circular CRTs instead of rounded rectangles.

Circles would have had a couple of advantages. First, I believe they would have been easier to make. From what I've read rectangles have more stress at the corners. Rounding the corners reduces that but it is still more than circles have. With circles they could have more easily made bigger CRTs.

Second, there is no aspect ratio thus avoiding the whole problem of picking an aspect ratio.

Electronically the signals to the XY deflectors to scan a spiral out from the center (or in from the edge if you prefer) on a circle are as easy to make as the signals to to scan in horizontal lines on a rectangle.

As far as I can tell that would have been fine up until we got computers and wanted to use TV CRTs as computer displays. I can't imagine how to build a bitmapped interface for such a CRT that would not be a complete nightmare to deal with.

rhplus 17 minutes ago|
I would guess that even at the time a circular viewport would have seemed a bit weird and so rectangular was preferred. After all, theater stages, most windows, photographs and books - all common place - aren’t circular either.
sosomoxie 5 hours ago||
CRTs are peak steam punk technology. Analog, electric, kinda dangerous. Just totally mindblowing that we had these things in our living rooms shooting electric beams everywhere. I doubt it's environmentally friendly at all, but I'd love to see some new CRTs being made.
retrac 3 hours ago||
There's a synchronous and instantaneous nature you don't find in modern designs.

The image is not stored at any point. The receiver and the transmitter are part of the same electric circuit in a certain sense. It's a virtual circuit but the entire thing - transmitter and receiving unit alike - are oscillating in unison driven by a single clock.

The image is never entirely realized as a complete thing, either. While slow phosphor tubes do display a static image, most CRT systems used extremely fast phosphors; they release the majority of the light within a millisecond of the beam hitting them. If you take a really fast exposure of a CRT display (say 1/100,000th of a second) you don't see the whole image on the photograph - only the most recently few drawn lines glow. The image as a whole never exists at the same time. It exists only in the persistence of vision.

ninkendo 1 hour ago|||
It doesn’t begin at the transmitter either, in the earliest days even the camera was essentially part of the same circuit. Yes, the concept of filming a show and showing the film over the air existed eventually, but before that (and even after that, for live programming) the camera would scan the subject image (actors, etc) line-by-line and down a wire to the transmitter which would send it straight to your TV and into the electron beam.

In fact in order to show a feed of only text/logos/etc in the earlier days, they would literally just point the camera at a physical object (like letters on a paper, etc) and broadcast from the camera directly. There wasn’t really any other way to do it.

lebuffon 48 minutes ago||
Our station had an art department that used a hot press to create text boards that were set on an easel that had a camera pointed at it. By using a black background with white text you could merge the text camera with a camera in the studio and "super-imposed the text into the video feed.

"And if you tell the kids that today, they won't believe it!"

accounting2026 2 hours ago||||
> The image is not stored at any point.

Just wanted to add one thing, not as a correction but just because I learned it recently and find it fascinating. PAL televisions (the color TV standard in Europe) actually do store one full horizontal scanline at a time, before any of it is drawn on the screen. This is due to a clever encoding used in this format where the TV actually needs to average two successive scan lines (phase-shifted compared to each other) to draw them. Supposedly this cancels out some forms of distortion. It is quite fascinating this was even possible with analogue technology. The line is stored in a delay line for 64 microseconds. See e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsk4WWtRx6M

leguminous 30 minutes ago|||
At some point, most NTSC TVs had delay lines, too. A comb filter was commonly used for separating the chroma from the luma, taking advantage of the chroma phase being flipped each line. Sophisticated comb filters would have multiple delay lines and logic to adaptively decide which to use. Some even delayed a whole field or frame, so you could say that in this case one or more frames were stored in the TV.

https://www.extron.com/article/ntscdb3

brewmarche 1 hour ago||||
I only knew about SECAM, where it’s even part of the name (Système Électronique Couleur Avec Mémoire)
MBCook 1 hour ago||||
All PAL TVs had a delay line in them? Crazy.
jacquesm 2 hours ago|||
The physical components of those delay lines were massive crystals with silver electrodes grafted on to them. Very interesting component.
lifeisstillgood 57 minutes ago||||
>>> The image is not stored at any point.

The very first computers (Manchester baby) used CRTs as memory - the ones and zeros were bright spots on a “mesh” and the electric charge on the mesh was read and resent back to the crt to keep the ram fresh (a sorta self refreshing ram)

torginus 2 hours ago|||
Yeah it super weird that while we struggle with latency in the digital world, storing anything for any amount of time is an almost impossible challenge in the analog world.
iberator 48 minutes ago||
You should check out:

- Core memory - Drum memory - Bubble memory - Mercury delay line memory - Magnetic type memory :P

And probably many more. Remember that computers don't even need to be digital!

lebuffon 52 minutes ago|||
I was on a course at Sony in San Mateo in the 1980s and they had a 36" prototype television in the corner. We all asked for it to be turned on. We were told by the instructor that he was not allowed to turn it on because the 40,000V anode voltage generated too many X-rays at the front of the picture tube.

:-))))

ortusdux 4 hours ago|||
One summer odd-job included an afternoon of throwing a few dozen CRTs off a 3rd floor balcony into a rolloff dumpster. I'da done it for free.
ihaveajob 1 hour ago||
People pay for that these days in smash rooms.
kleiba 3 hours ago|||
What do you mean "had"? I just turned mine off a minute ago. I am yet to make the transition to flat screen TVs but in the mean time, at least no-one's tracking my consumer habits.
rapfaria 57 minutes ago||
Not through your TV, but they see you driving to the last Blockbuster tho
cf100clunk 5 hours ago|||
The shadow mask system for colour CRTs was a huge improvement that thwarted worries about ''beams everywhere'':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_mask

fecal_henge 5 hours ago|||
Extra dangerous aspect: On really early CRTs they hadn't quite nailed the glass thicknesses. One failure mode was that the neck that held the electron gun would fail. This would propell the gun through the front of the screen, possibly toward the viewer.
cf100clunk 5 hours ago|||
Likewise, a dropped CRT tube was a constant terror for TV manufacturing and repair folks, as it likely would implode and send zillions of razor-sharp fragments airborne.
thomassmith65 3 hours ago|||
My high school science teacher used to share anecdotes from his days in electrical repair.

He said his coworkers would sometimes toss a television capacitor at each other as a prank.

Those capacitors retained enough charge to give the person unlucky enough to catch one a considerable jolt.

freedomben 3 hours ago|||
Touching one of those caps was a hell of an experience. It was similar in many ways to a squirrel tap with a wrench in the auto shop (for those who didn't do auto shop, a squirrel tap with a wrench is when somebody flicks your nut sack from behind with a wrench. Properly executed it would leave you doubled over out of breath).
NL807 2 hours ago|||
lol I did this with my mates. Get one of those 1 kV ceramics, give it some charge and bob's your uncle, you have one angry capacitor.
iberator 57 minutes ago||
This can be deadly :/ just wow
torginus 2 hours ago||||
I remember smashing a broken monitor as a kid for fun, hearing about the implosion stuff, and sadly found the back of the glass was stuck to some kind of plastic film that didnt allow the pieces to fly about :(
ASalazarMX 2 hours ago|||
I can't still get over how we used to put them straight in our faces, yet I never knew of someone having an accidental face reshaping ever.
ASalazarMX 2 hours ago|||
I don't know, "Killed by electron gun breakdown" sounds like a rad way to go. You can replace "electron gun" with "particle accelerator" if you want.
kazinator 5 hours ago|||
With CRTs, the environmental problem is the heavy metals: tons of lead in the glass screen, plus cadmium and whatnot. Supposedly there can be many pounds of lead in a large CRT.
femto 3 hours ago|||
This thread makes me realise that the old Telequipment D61 Cathode Ray Oscilloscope I have is worth hanging on to. It's basically a CRT with signal conditioning on its inputs, including a "Z mod" input, making it easy to do cool stuff with it.
pinnochio 5 hours ago|||
We're getting awfully close to recreating CRT qualities with modern display panels. A curved 4:3 1000Hz OLED panel behind glass, and an integrated RetroTink 4K with G-Sync Pulsar support would do it. Then add in a simulated degauss effect and electrical whine and buzzing sounds for fun.
charcircuit 34 minutes ago|||
>1000 Hz

This sounds like a brute force solution over just having the display controller read the image as it is being sent and emulating the phosphors.

soperj 5 hours ago|||
still can't play duck hunt on it though.
gzalo 4 hours ago||
Yes you can, see https://neslcdmod.com/

It basically mods the rom to allow for a bit more latency when checking the hit targets

itisit 5 hours ago|||
And perhaps peak atompunk too when used as RAM. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube

BizarroLand 3 hours ago||
Damn, what I wouldn't give to be able to look at my computer and see the bits bobbing in its onboard ram
itisit 3 hours ago||
Like the MegaProcessor? [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNa9bQRPMB8

BizarroLand 3 hours ago||
Yes but for my 9950x, lol
brcmthrowaway 5 hours ago|||
The 1940-1990 era of technology can't be beat. Add hard drives and tape to the mix. What happened to electromechanical design? I doubt it would be taught anymore. Everything is solid state
Xirdus 2 hours ago||
Solid state is the superior technology for almost everything. No moving parts means more reliable, quieter, and very likely more energy efficient since no mass has to move.
jasonfarnon 1 hour ago||
Do modern hdd's last as long as the old platter ones? For me, when the SSDs fail it's frustrating because I can't open it up and do anything about it--it's a complete loss. So I tend to have a low opinion of their reliability (same issue I have with old versus new electronic-everything cars). I don't know the actual lifetimes. Surely USB sticks are universally recognized as pretty crappy. I can leave those in the same location plugged in and they'll randomly die after a couple of years.
joe_the_user 5 hours ago||
Also, I believe precursors to CRT existed in the 19th century. What was unique with television was the creation of a full CRT system that allowed moving picture consumption to be a mass phenomena.
timonoko 5 hours ago||
I saw TV first time in 1957. Finland had no TV transmitters, so programs came from Soviet Estonia. I distinctly remember watching romantic Russian film with a catching tune. Perhaps named "Moscow Lights"?

How this is even possible that I remember all this, because I was 4 yrs old?

Gemini knows:

The Film: In the Days of the Spartakiad (1956/1957)

The song "Moscow Nights" was originally written for a documentary film called "In the Days of the Spartakiad" (V dni spartakiady), which chronicled a massive Soviet sports competition.

The Scene: In the film, there is a romantic, quiet scene where athletes are resting in the countryside near Moscow at night.

The Music: The song was sung by Vladimir Troshin. It was intended to be background music, but it was so hauntingly melodic that it became an overnight sensation across the USSR and its neighbors.

The Finnish Connection: In 1957, the song became a massive hit in Finland and Estonia. Since you were watching Estonian TV, you likely saw a version where the dialogue or narration was dubbed into Finnish—a common practice for broadcasts intended for Finnish-speaking audiences across the Gulf of Finland.

scotty79 3 hours ago||
Isn't it wild that you are asking 5th (or so) technological miracle that happened in your life time about the first one you remember?
timonoko 2 hours ago||
I actually thought that the "Computer" was some kind of abstract construct in 1971. And "programs" were just a method of expressing algorithms in textual manner. Only when we were allowed to have brief interactions with Teletype, did I believe there was actual machine that understands and executes these complex commands. Mind Blown.
keithnz 1 hour ago||
I was busy being born that year :)
therein 5 hours ago|||
I easily have many memories from age 4. I think I even remember the first time that I started forming memories. It was a few years before that, I had come out of my room and saw some toys I was playing with the night before. I realized they were at the same spot I left them, which made me realize the world had permanence and my awareness had continuity. I could leave things at a certain spot and they would be there the next day, that I could build things and they would stay that way. I realized I could remember things, in a way like "homo sapiens sapiens" being thinking about thinking, I realized I remember that I could remember.
rm445 2 hours ago|||
This is a fascinating post but I don't believe it reflects (most) human memory development, which has a pronounced forgetting phase called 'childhood amnesia'. When your kid starts to talk, it's startling what a two-year-old can remember and can tell you about. And it's kinda heartbreaking when they're 4-5 and you realise that those early memories have faded.
blauditore 2 hours ago||
Note that your memories might not be accurate, as your brain may have skightly altered them over the years, over and over. There is generally no way for yourself to know (except for some external proof).

This is not just the case for early childhood memories, but for anything - the more time passes, the less accurate. It's even possible to have completely "made-up" memories, perceived as 100% real, e.g. through suggestive questioning in therapy.

usefulcat 55 minutes ago||
I can relate. I often feel like my earliest memories are now more like memories of memories, and I dimly recall that it wasn’t always like that.
tgtweak 5 hours ago|||
Definitely have some memories from 3 years old - some people claim earlier and I wouldn't doubt that, although it's very rare for memories before 2 to be recalled episodically.
tzs 2 hours ago|||
It's also hard to be sure if early memories are actually memories from the actual event or are memories your brain constructed from later hearing people describe the event.

There was one experiment where researchers got a man's family at a holiday gathering of the extended family to start talking about funny things that had happened to family members when they were children. In particular the man's parents and siblings told about a funny incident that happened to the man during his 3rd grade school play.

The man had earlier agreed to participate in some upcoming psychological research but did not yet know the details or been told when the research would start.

Later he was contacted and told the research would be starting soon, and asked to come in an answer some background questions. They asked about early non-academic school activities and he told them about his 3rd grade play and the funny incident that happened, including details that his family had not mentioned.

Unbeknownst to the man the research had actually started earlier and the man's family had agreed to help out. That story about the 3rd grade play that his family told was actually given to them by the researchers. None of his elementary school classes had put on any plays.

This sort of thing can be a real problem. People being questioned about crimes (as witnesses or suspects) can get false memories of the crime if the person questioning them is not careful. Or worse, a questioner could intentionally get them to form false memories that they will later recall on the witness stand.

avadodin 1 hour ago||
The memories are probably nothing like how they were at the time, but I vividly remember running away from my parents with my elder sister, getting bullied by an extremely blond girl at day care, and falling and literally eating dirt including that it was salty around 2-3.
jasonfarnon 1 hour ago||
But at some point don't you lose the direct memory, and only retain remembering it? Eg I don't know that I directly remember the fight I got in with the neighbor kid at age 4, but I can definitely remember thinking about it for a something we had to write in school around age 8. Or at least I could when I was in high school. That's when I thought about the time I had to write that essay when I was 8. At some point all I remember are the like the layers of subsequent thoughts about the original event, and I don't really access the original event any more, or it's just a stub.
avadodin 45 minutes ago||
At some point, most memories are like that, to be honest – not just early childhood ones. You could say I consider these are "vivid" because I can recall more details of them than of the average memory.
rubslopes 4 hours ago|||
I have one memory that I can place between late 2 and early 3: my mum telling me I was going to have a brother. When he was born, I was 3 years and 6 months old.
poisonarena 4 hours ago|||
link to "Vladimir Trochin - Moscow nights (1956)" https://youtu.be/fRFScbISKDg?si=UsVHVnlnUnU2SP6v
michaelsbradley 4 hours ago||
My first memory of TV (but not my earliest memory by far) was, at age 4, seeing the first Space Shuttle launch. It was live on a little black-and-white set my parents had in their bedroom.
mrandish 2 hours ago||
Early television was a hotbed of hacker/hobbyist DIY experimentation much like early radio and early personal computers. The first issue of "Television Magazine" from 1928 (https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=37097) has a remarkably similar vibe to 1970s computer zines (https://archive.org/details/kilobaudmagazine-1977-01/).

For example, page 26 has directions on how to pop by the local chemist to pick up materials to make your own selenium cell (your first imager) and page 29 covers constructing your first Televisor, including helpful tips like "A very suitable tin-plate is ... the same material out of which biscuit tins and similar light tinware is made. It is easily handled and can readily be cut with an ordinary pair of scissors. It is sold in sheets of 22 inches by 30 inches. Any ironmonger will supply these."

jedberg 8 hours ago||
This is interesting. John Logie Baird did in fact demonstrate something that looked like TV, but the technology was a dead end.

Philo Farnsworth demonstrated a competing technology a few years later, but every TV today is based on his technology.

So, who actually invented Television?

armadsen 8 hours ago||
For what it’s worth, Philo Farnsworth and John Logie Baird were friendly with each other. I was lucky to know Philo’s wife Pem very well in the last part of her life, and she spoke highly of Baird as a person.

David Sarnoff and RCA was an entirely different matter, of course…

bovermyer 8 hours ago||
The article has a photo of a plaque putting Baird's death in 1946, less than 40 years old.

What happened?

roarcher 8 hours ago||
He was 57, born in 1888. Died of a stroke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird#Death

ggm 3 hours ago||
One of his electro-mechanical units was on display in Victoria, Australia. Most amazing assemblage, you can sort-of get the idea from things.

I read online that at his end, Baird was proposing a TV scan-rate we'd class as HD quality, which lost out to a 405 line standard (which proceeded 625/colour)

There is also a quality of persistence in his approach to things, he was the kind of inventor who doesn't stop inventing.

zwischenzug 6 hours ago|||
Whatever we all television now, television then was literally "vision at a distance", which Baird was the first to demonstrate (AFAIK).

The TV I have now in my living room is closer to a computer than a television from when I grew up (born 1975) anyway, so the word could mean all sorts of things. I mean, we still call our pocket computers "phones" even though they are mainly used for viewing cats at a distance.

MoonWalk 8 hours ago|||
You should read about the invention of color television. There were two competing methods, one of which depended on a spinning wheel with colored filters in it. If I remember correctly, you needed something like a 10-foot wheel to have a 27-inch TV.

Sure enough, this was the system selected as the winner by the U.S. standard-setting body at the time. Needless to say, it failed and was replaced by what we ended up with... which still sucked because of the horrible decision to go to a non-integer frame rate. Incredibly, we are for some reason still plagued by 29.97 FPS long after the analog system that required it was shut off.

eternauta3k 7 hours ago|||
Why is an integer frame rate better?
zoky 7 hours ago||
For one thing, it’s much easier to measure spans of time when you have an integer frame rate. For example, 1 hour at 30fps is exactly 108,000 frames, but at 29.97 it’s only 107,892 frames. Since frame numbers must all have an integer time code, “drop-frame” time code is used, where each second has a variable number of frames so that by the end of each measured hour the total elapsed time syncs up with the time code, i.e. “01:00:00;00” falls after exactly one hour has passed. This is of course crucial when scheduling programs, advertisements, and so on. It’s a confusing mess and historically has caused all kinds of headaches for the TV industry over the years.
iso1631 7 hours ago|||
Originally you had 30fps, it was the addition of colour with the NTSC system that dropped it to 30000/1001fps. That wasn't a decision taken lightly -- it was a consequence of retrofitting colour onto a black and white system while maintaining backward compatibility.

When the UK (and Europe) went colour it changed to a whole new system and didn't have to worry too much about backward compatibility. It had a higher bandwidth (8mhz - so 33% more than NTSC), and was broadcasting on new channels separate to the original 405 lines. It also had features like alternating the phase of every other line to reduce the "tint" or "never twice the same color" problem that NTSC had

America chose 30fps but then had to slow it by 1/1001ths to avoid interference.

Of course because by the 90s and the growth of digital, there was already far too much stuff expecting "29.97"hz so it remained, again for backward compatibility.

lebuffon 36 minutes ago|||
An engineer at RCA in New Jersey told me that at the first(early) NTSC color demo the interference was corrected by hand tweaking the color sub-carrier oscillator from which vertical and horizontal intervals were derived and the final result was what we got.

The interference was caused when the spectrum of the color sub-carrier over-lapped the spectrum of the horizontal interval in the broadcast signal. Tweaking the frequencies allowed the two spectra to interleave in the frequency domain.

Dwedit 7 hours ago||||
60 interlaced fields per second, not 30 frames per second. The two fields do not necessarily contribute to the same frame.
dylan604 4 hours ago||
If you get those fields out of sync, you will have problems though, so it's okay to consider them in pairs per frame for sanity's sake.
masfuerte 7 hours ago||||
In the UK the two earliest channels (BBC1 and ITV) continued to broadcast in the 405 line format (in addition to PAL) until 1985. Owners of ancient televisions had 20 years to upgrade. That doesn't seem unreasonable.
dylan604 4 hours ago|||
understanding the affect of the 1.001 fix has given me tons of job security. That understanding came not from just book learning, but OJT from working in a film/video post house that had engineers, colorists, and editors that were all willing to entertain a young college kid's constant use of "why?". Then being present for the transition from editing film on flat beds to editing film transfers to video. Part of that came from having to transfer audio from tape reels to video by changing to the proper 59.94Hz or 60Hz crystal that was needed to control the player's speed. Also had a studio DAT deck that could slow down the 24fps audio record in the field to playback at 23.976.

Literally, to this day, am I dealing with all of these decisions made ~100 years ago. The 1.001 math is a bit younger when color was rolled out, but what's a little rounding between friends?

chasil 8 hours ago|||
I had a communications theory class in college that addressed "vestigal sideband modulation," which I believe was implemented by Farnsworth. I think this is a critical aspect to the introduction of television technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sideband_modulation#Sup...

drmpeg 7 hours ago||
VSB came later. From https://www.tvtechnology.com/opinions/hdtv-from-1925-to-1994

In the United States in 1935, the Radio Corporation of America demonstrated a 343-line television system. In 1936, two committees of the Radio Manufacturers Association (RMA), which is now known as the Consumer Electronics Association, proposed that U.S. television channels be standardized at a bandwidth of 6 MHz, and recommended a 441-line, interlaced, 30 frame-per-second television system. The RF modulation system proposed in this recommendation used double-sideband, amplitude-modulated transmission, limiting the video bandwidth it was capable of carrying to 2.5 MHz. In 1938, this RMA proposal was amended to employ vestigial-sideband (VSB) transmission instead of double sideband. In the vestigial-sideband approach, only the upper sidebands-those above the carrier frequency-plus a small segment or vestige of the lower sidebands, are transmitted. VSB raised the transmitted video bandwidth capability to 4.2 MHz. Subsequently, in 1941, the first National Television Systems Committee adopted the vestigial sideband system using a total line rate of 525 lines that is used in the United States today.

AndrewDucker 8 hours ago|||
There were a great many small breakthroughs over time. Where you draw the line is up to you.
throwaway_20357 5 hours ago|||
Wasn't all this early TV experimentation based on Nipkow disks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipkow_disk)?
gtoubassi 5 hours ago|||
"The Last Lone Inventor: A Tale of Genius, Deceit, and the Birth of Television" is a great book detailing the Farnsworth journey.
joe_the_user 5 hours ago|||
The thing is that "television" seemed like a thing but really it was a system that required a variety of connected, compatible parts, like the Internet.

Different pieces of what became TV existed in 1900, the challenge was putting them together. And that required a consensus among powerful players.

tehwebguy 8 hours ago|||
Farnsworth…
kridsdale3 6 hours ago||
Wernstrom!
reactordev 8 hours ago|||
Baird did. Farnsworth invented the all-electric version (sans mechanical parts).

A kin to Ed Roberts, John Blakenbaker and Mark Dean invented the personal computer but Apple invented the PC as we know it.

cultofmetatron 8 hours ago||
> but every TV today is based on his technology.

Philo Farnsworth invented the cathode ray tube. unless you're writing this from the year 2009 or before, I'm going to have to push back on the idea that tv's TODAY are based on his technology. They most certainly are not.

_nub3 7 hours ago|||
1897 Ferdinand Braun invents the Cathode Ray Tube dubbed "Braunsche Röhre"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenjiro_Takayanagi

'Although he failed to gain much recognition in the West, he built the world's first all-electronic television receiver, and is referred to as "the father of Japanese television"'

He presented it in 1926 (Farnsworth in 1927)

However father of television was this dude:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_von_Ardenne

Better resolution, wireless transmission and Olympics 1936

jedberg 6 hours ago||||
He invented electronic rasterization, a form of which is still in use today.
shellac 7 hours ago|||
No, Braun invented the cathode ray tube.
shevy-java 6 hours ago||
In a way television was kind of cool. I loved it as a child, give or take.

Nowadays ..... hmmm. I no longer own a TV since many years. Sadly youtube kind of replaced television. It is not the same, quality-wise I think youtube is actually worse than e. g. the 1980s era. But I also don't really want to go back to television, as it also had low quality - and it simply took longer, too. On youtube I was recently watching old "Aktenzeichen XY ungelöst", in german. The old videos are kind of cool and interesting from the 1980s. I watched the new ones - it no longer made ANY sense to watch it ... the quality is much worse, and it is also much more boring. It's strange.

tadfisher 6 hours ago||
I remember when we organized our lives around television. On Saturday mornings it would be cartoons (including the first full-CGI television shows, Reboot and Transformers: Beast Wars), Wednesday evenings would be Star Trek: TNG, Fridays would be the TGIF block of family shows (from early-to-mid-90s USA perspective here). It felt like everyone watched the same thing, everyone had something to talk about from last night's episode, and there was a common connection over what we watched as entertainment.

We saw a resurgence of this connection with big-budget serials like Game of Thrones, but now every streaming service has their own must-watch thing and it's basically as if everyone had their own personal broadcast station showing something different. I don't know if old-school television was healthy for society or not, but I do have a feeling of missing out on that shared connection lately.

elevation 4 hours ago|||
> but I do have a feeling of missing out on that shared connection lately

Mass media isolates individuals who don't have access to it. I grew up without a TV, and when TV was all my neighbors could talk about, I was left out, and everyone knew it.

While other children were in front of the television gaining "shared experience", I built forts in the woods with my siblings, explored the creek in home made boats, learned to solder, read old books, wrote basic computer programs, launched model rockets, made up magic tricks. I had a great childhood, but I had a difficult time connecting with children whose only experiences were these shallow, shared experiences.

Now that media is no longer "shared", the fragmented content that people still consume has diminishing social value -- which in many cases was the only value it had. Which means there are fewer social consequences for people like me who choose not to partake.

parpfish 4 hours ago|||
it feels like you're advocating that "unless everybody can form a shared connection through common culture, nobody should for a shared connection through common culture".
rexpop 3 hours ago|||
Mass media even moreso isolates individuals who DO have access to it.

Their "shared experience" is, actually, a debilitating addiction to flat, untouchable, and anti-democratic spectacle.

The least hundred years have seen our society drained of social capital, inescapably enthralled by corporate mediators. Mass media encourages a shift from "doing" to "watching." As we consume hand-tailored entertainment in private, we retreat from the public square.

Heavy television consumption is associated with lethargy and passivity, reinforcing an intolerance for unstructured time. This creates a "pseudoworld" where viewers feel a false sense of companionship—a parasocial connection with television personalities—that creates a feeling of intimacy while requiring (and offering) no actual reciprocity or effort.

Television, the "800-pound gorilla of leisure time," has privatized our existence. This privatization of leisure acts as a lethal competitor for scarce time, stealing hours that were once devoted to social interaction—the picnics, club meetings, and informal visiting that constitute the mētis or practical social knowledge of community life.

jedberg 5 hours ago||||
This is something I've been lamenting for a long time. The lack of shared culture. Sometimes a mega-hit briefly coalesces us, but for the most part everyone has their own thing.

I miss the days when everyone had seen the same thing I had.

Diederich 5 hours ago|||
I found this the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFhXFuRblg "NBC Nightly News, June 24, 1975" I strongly urge people to watch this, it's 30 minutes but there are many very illuminating insights within. One word for you: Exxon.

While I was young in 1975, I did watch ABC's version of the news with my grandparents, and continued up through high school. Then in the late 1980s I got on the Internet and well you know the rest.

"Back Then", a high percentage of everybody I or my grandparents or my friends came into contact with watched one of ABC, NBC, or CBS news most nights. These three networks were a bit different, but they generally they all told the same basic stories as each other.

This was effectively our shared reality. Later in high school as I became more politically focused, I could still talk to anybody, even people who had completely opposite political views as myself. That's because we had a shared view of reality.

Today, tens of millions of people see the exact same footage of an officer involved shooting...many angles, and draw entirely different 'factual' conclusions.

So yes, 50 years ago, we in the United States generally had a share view of reality. That was good in a lot of ways, but it did essentially allow a small set of people in power to decide that convincing a non-trivial percentage of the US population that Exxon was a friendly, family oriented company that was really on your side.

Worth the trade off? Hard to say, but at least 'back then' it was possible, and even common, to have ground political discussions with people 'on the other side', and that's pretty valuable.

ghaff 5 hours ago|||
I don't know if it's good or bad but, outside of some megahit films, people mostly don't regularly watch the same TV series. I don't even have live TV myself.
eloisant 5 hours ago||||
This is why I like it when streaming services release one episode every week instead of dropping the whole season in one shot.
parpfish 4 hours ago||
i hate the single season dumping at once for a big binge. it always feel like i'm plugging into the content trough and gorging myself to pass the hours.

you can't talk about a show with somebody until they're also done binging, so there's no fun discussion/speculation (the conversation is either "did you watch that? yeah. <conversation over>" or "you should watch this. <conversation over>".

victorperalta 6 hours ago|||
Planet Money recently released an episode that mentions some of these points around drop vs drip programming

https://www.npr.org/2025/12/24/nx-s1-5646673/stranger-things...

procflora 3 hours ago|||
The broadcast nature of it is something that I missed just last night. I was walking past several bars as the Seahawks won a big football game, but of course each spot was on a different stream delay so instead of one full-throated simultaneous cheer echoing across the neighborhood it was three or four quieter, distinct cheers spread over 20-30 seconds. Not really a big deal but still, it felt like a lesser experience to this aging millennial.
the_af 6 hours ago||
> It is not the same, quality-wise I think youtube is actually worse than e. g. the 1980s era

Is it though? I of course watched TV as a kid through the 80s and have some feelings of nostalgia about it, but is it true that YouTube today is worse?

I mean, YouTube is nothing in particular. There's all sorts of crap, but Sturgeon's Law [1] applies here. There is also good stuff, even gems, if you curate your content carefully. YouTube can be delightful if you know what to look for. If you don't filter, yeah... it's garbage.

----

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

b00ty4breakfast 6 hours ago|||
There is many times more things on youtube than were ever on TV over it's entire lifetime up to the YT era, even discounting old TV show content on Youtube. But it also feels like the ratio of of good-to-shit has not remained constant between the two.
sodapopcan 6 hours ago|||
Definitely good stuff on YouTube, but I do miss the curation and, as was talked about here recently I believe, shared experiences that brought. I'm also crazy addicted to YouTube in a way that I wasn't to TV, but that's another issue.
Avalaxy 5 hours ago||
Does anyone here still have television? Ever since I moved out of my parents house (15 years ago), I never had a TV subscription. I did own a TV screen, but only to run apps like Netflix and Youtube. I'd rather have a simple monitor without the TV options to do so, but strangely that never existed or was too expensive.

Edit: to make it clear, I absolutely did not miss having TV for even a second in all of those years.

talla_unica 3 hours ago||
Over here in some European countries TV license fee is mandatory even if you don't own a set. The licence funds watchable content, so it makes sense to have one. (I kind-of pity the US and other countries without a strong public TV system). Actually I have access to three TV markets via satellite (which includes UK with the BBC) and the amount of good content free to receive and record it much better than what Netflix offers. (Of course, nothing can match youtube)

BTW, I also still have a CRT in constant use - but the sources are now digital (It's my kitchen background TV - I feed it from a Raspberry PI with Kodi). On great thing about CRTs is that there's no computer inside monitoring what you watch.

elliotec 3 hours ago|||
I am not really sure what you mean by "have television" - I, as I assume many here, have a TV "screen" as you put it, but it's used for Apple TV apps, home media server viewing, Netflix, and video games. I actually do have a digital antenna with it but never use it. I think the only time I have in the last 10 years or so was to watch one olympic event last summer.
nabbed 4 hours ago|||
I have some sort of old flat screen TV, which I bought before there were "smart" TVs. But I don't have cable or over-the-air reception. Instead I have a Roku soundbar with Netflix, Apple TV+, and Youtube apps (plus some other apps that I don't use, like Tubi and Pluto). I haven't had cable or over-the-air reception for ~18 years.

I can't watch anything live unless Youtube is showing some live event (which it sometimes does). I could probably watch some live news using Pluto, but I never do.

agumonkey 3 hours ago|||
Kept a few mini portable CRTs. I don't have any CRT monitors though.. sold my beloved diamondtron to a movie editor, sadly transporter probably shook it too hard and the device wasn't operating on arrival (at to refund the guy and lose the screen, double whammy)
mghackerlady 4 hours ago|||
My mom still pays for cable, so since I live with her I suppose I have it by proxy. When I move out I'll still be buying one of those digital OTA antennas because I don't watch enough tv to justify a streaming service or cable, and sometimes it's nice to just watch something that's on without much of a choice
testing22321 4 hours ago|||
Colloquially called “the idiot box” in Australia.

I remember asking as a teenager if that because there are idiots on the box, or because you turn into one when you watch it.

The answer is “yes”

Have not had or watched one in well over 20 years.

nephihaha 4 hours ago||
I got rid of mine. Predictable mind numbing content. I do stream occasionally but I have not paid a TV licence in over twenty years.
ofrzeta 7 hours ago||
Neil Postman's theory still holds up and is extended to the Internet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death

willturman 7 hours ago|
> In the introduction to Amusing Ourselves to Death, Postman said that the contemporary world was better reflected by Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, whose public was oppressed by their addiction to amusement, rather than by Orwell's work, where they were oppressed by state violence.

And modern America asked itself, why can't it be both?

fyrn_ 1 hour ago||
Only 100 years old. Wow. I mean you know the world has changed rapidly but it's hard to get perspective enough to really feel that change. Something about it only having been 100 years since televsion really does that for me.
ngcc_hk 5 minutes ago|
Only 100 years. Less than even Leica ? Wow!
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