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Posted by bwb 11 hours ago

France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.(twitter.com)
522 points | 449 commentspage 2
_pdp_ 9 hours ago|
Many EU members impose regulatory requirements for software in some sectors. If you want to get certified you need to go through some of them and while they are arcane they are also required.

EU could easily force the hand - not in the next month or so but over a period of time. No need to discriminate against US companies but EU companies might be preferred and might have better access to EU services.

We already have customers asking for this. They are not the majority but given the recent events this could quickly become a valuable chunk of the business - perhaps even overnight. We as a business are already thinking about it. And it is not just about moving the data to an EU data center. This is of course acceptable in many cases but still subject to the CLOUD Act. We are talking about a clean cut situation.

It is true that good alternatives are not available, yet. But I would not underestimate EU tech companies either. There are plenty of great engineers and great companies in EU so strong competitors can spun up in short order. Now with AI coding assistants, it is even more doable then before.

It is also potentially a great opportunity especially now.

eb0la 9 hours ago|
In Spain you need to be ENS-certified (esquema nacional de seguridad) in order to provide services to the goverment. Nowadays it is similar / aligned to NIS2 certification.

But you need to certify more than just apps. Processes are more important than apps.

somat 10 hours ago||
For what it's worth, if you want a self hosted replacement for Zoom Galene has worked great for me, The server requirements are remarkably low, especially if you are like me and just need a personal video chat to a few people. I run it on an old apu-2 with openbsd(which is just about the worst combination and it still works great) As a bonus there is no client, that is, the client is just a web page so very low friction to get people to use it.

https://galene.org/

RockstarSprain 10 hours ago||
+1.

I am running a Galene instance via the YunoHost self-hosting package on a small dedicated server (2 cores, 4gb of RAM).

So far it’s much better than I expected, both in terms of latency and the overall video/audio quality. Feels better than Jitsi and even a FaceTime / WhatsApp call.

jech 9 hours ago||
> So far [Galene is] much better than I expected, both in terms of latency and the overall video/audio quality

Latency is better, since Galene uses an unordered buffer instead of a jitter buffer. Lipsynch should also be slightly better, as Galene carefully computes audio/video offsets and forwards the result to the receiver so it can compensate.

Audio and video quality, on the other hand, should be roughly the same, unless Jitsi is doing something wrong.

pengaru 7 hours ago||
What happened to Jitsi?
prmoustache 6 hours ago||
It is still a thing. I used it 2 days ago actually.
Synaesthesia 11 hours ago||
We need more like this. Europe is totally dependent on US companies for cloud computing.
eb0la 9 hours ago||
Until now nobody thought it was a problem. At least not a big one. The EU made some moves to define a "cloud computing" platform for Europe, and very little people paid attention because business-wise it was very difficult to compete with US corporations that have vast amounts of money in cash and find easy to get funding.

But now there are some (small) alternatives.

LIDL has its own cloud for retail.

And I believe T-Systems sells some cloud computing for goverments based on OpenStack...

Small steps, but steps.

nunez 7 hours ago|||
I don't think a cloud provider that is _just_ a cloud provider exists. All of the cloud providers I can think of (AWS, GCP, Azure, Oracle Cloud, IBM Cloud, Baidu, etc) are subsidiaries of larger corporations whose profit centers are elsewhere.

The capital requirements needed to spin up a public cloud and the services that come with that are absolutely massive. It makes me think that cloud computing, despite the gigantic profits it brings in, is not sustainable on its own.

rconti 10 hours ago||
As a dual US/EU national who would love to move to Europe, I, for one, welcome the increase in tech demand on that side of the pond.
jleyank 11 hours ago||
And they can strike back at corporate America by licensing the stuff under gnu licenses. Software that’s reasonably small, reasonably effective and portable. What a concept. If only the EU or UK had 5-10 hackers…
trelane 11 hours ago||
Even something already available off the shelf!

https://www.fsf.org/blogs/membership/jitsi-meet-an-often-ove...

Neil44 11 hours ago|||
One of my networking groups uses Jitsi. It's fine.
Nextgrid 9 hours ago|||
It's pretty awful to setup compared to the Livekit-based solution.
iso1631 11 hours ago||
Visio is more than just the software, it's a French run tool where the entire stack is provided at an enterprise/governmental level with various guarentees about availability, confidentiality etc.
concinds 10 hours ago||
Not so much "aiming" as doing it. The alternative already exists, is open-source, and used by 40,000 government users. By 2027 all government agencies will use it exclusively.
duxup 10 hours ago|
What is that option?
mcoliver 10 hours ago|||
Visio with live kit (part of lasuite) or opendesk with jitsi would be my guess.

https://livekit.io/ https://www.clever.cloud/product/visio/ https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/

https://jitsi.org/ https://www.opendesk.eu/en

As an aside I am surprised it has taken this long but seems inevitable now given the last 18 months.

omnimus 9 hours ago||
My bet would be that "the standard" will be Heinlein Groups (company behind mailbox.org) OpenTalk (already better than Jitsy) and now they are doing OpenCloud as scaleable NextCloud alternative. The company behind the projects needs it for their own usecases, has stable business and they have decades of experience.
cocoflunchy 10 hours ago|||
Visio from https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/
bsimpson 10 hours ago||
It's funny that it's such a blatant knock-off of Google Workspace - the repos even have the same names:

https://github.com/suitenumerique/meet

I wonder if the emoji will grow into its own set:

https://github.com/suitenumerique/meet/blob/main/src/fronten...

omnimus 10 hours ago|||
It doesn't matter. Office suites are a commodity. Google suite is knockoff of MS Office at certain point in time. That's just the nature of digital - information want's to be free.
duxup 10 hours ago||
I feel like we would see a lot more movement if we’ve reached the commodity point…
omnimus 9 hours ago||
It's network effects / lock-in. There is a reason why people still use Microsoft Office and that is that surprising amount of industries have everything build around it. In my country anything law related is submitted in Microsoft Word. Academic texts? Microsoft Word. Communication with government? Microsoft Word.

The reason why Google Docs somewhat managed to break this was 1. free, 2. multiplayer/easy to share.

One law about requiring the state documents to be submitted in open formats, editable in libre software... and the lock instantly breaks.

Nextgrid 9 hours ago|||
> blatant knock-off of Google Workspace - the repos even have the same names

That's exactly what we need though, so I see that as a plus.

tensor 3 hours ago||
This is great. With more users alterantives will improve. The one place I would LOVE to see more effort at an international standard is in operating systems.

And no just adopting Linux is not enough. It needs to ecompass the full breadth of Windows and MacOS and be as turn-key and good at integration as MacOS. The Linux ecosystem is just too fragmented and still caters too strongly to developers. A full stack international standard, including being able to deploy packaged priorietary software and drivers, would provide potentially real competition to Microsoft and Apple.

LelouBil 3 hours ago||
The actual website listing all the tools of this office suite (in French)

https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/#products

tsoukase 5 hours ago||
"Nobody Ever Got Fired For Buying Microsoft". Same for Oracle and AWS, until a year ago. Before the current insanity, Europe whould become independent like never. Now, it will take about a decade, IF the insanity continues in the next presidential terms.
nasretdinov 10 hours ago||
My hope is that all this push towards tech independence (not just from EU) will make the most "basic" tools open-source and they wouldn't suck as much as they do now.

What I mean by this is e.g. you can already use Linux on a desktop and it's generally okay (or even good sometimes), however things like LibreOffice are absolutely unusable in terms of performance, functionality and user friendliness compared to e.g. Keynote or even Pages on macOS.

Multiple governments having to solve essentially the same issue on a global scale is a unique opportunity to save costs by working on open source together, and get funding and direction that's never been available to OSS before.

ergocoder 10 hours ago||
As much as I cheer for OpenOffice, it sucks. And it has been decades now.

I'm not even an advanced Word / Google Doc user.

Are we gonna wait for 100 more years for it to be good?

ptx 10 hours ago|||
The latest version of OpenOffice (4.1.x) is over a decode old, aside from security releases with "bug fixes and little enhancements", so it's not surprising that it hasn't improved in the last decade.

LibreOffice is the actively developed fork.

There's a nice diagram on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org#Forks_and_deriv...

Insanity 10 hours ago||||
Word also kind of sucks. My biggest gripe is that it doesn’t understand markdown input. And once you add tables to the word doc, it turns into even more of a mess to work with.
umanwizard 10 hours ago|||
OpenOffice? Do you mean LibreOffice?

OpenOffice has been effectively dead for many years (though, maddeningly, Apache continues to publish it and squat the trademark); LibreOffice is the mainline where development continues.

bananasandrice 10 hours ago||
[flagged]
umanwizard 10 hours ago||
Yes, the name confusion is bad, I'm not really sure what this has to do with the topic though.
mhitza 10 hours ago|||
It also doesn't feel like the mid 2000s anymore, where offline word/excel are essential for most day to day work.

Most of the time I deal with csv downloads for data, or the shit PDFs that I can only fill in with the Adobe reader on windows. I can't recall the last time I fired up OnlyOffice (better MS garbage compatibility) for anything related to work.

This doesn't mean that those tools are irrelevant, but significantly less needed, and less of a migration hurdle for many companies.

leoedin 10 hours ago||
Yeah, I’ve been able to use desktop Linux without many issues in a corporate environment. The main issue was the web version of office being incomplete. If corporate IT teams embraced it, I bet most companies could be free of Windows without too much issue.

The bigger problem seems to be the cloud services - teams, OneDrive, sharepoint and all the account management stuff.

jbombadil 10 hours ago||
I hope so too, but don't believe that's the ultimate intent here.

The problem is that the tech independence is being pushed by government who want more control - not less. (Not speaking specifically of France and this instance, but looking at the anti-encryption rules that the UK and Ireland are pushing)

From that standpoint, I imagine the "solution" here won't be to push an open source alternative, but a closed one that they to control.

nasretdinov 10 hours ago||
I agree that it's not an intent. However hopefully it's going to be open-source, as is the case for most government work in the UK for example. One can dream I guess
rawgabbit 6 hours ago|
Isn't that what "LaSuite" is? I know this particular instance is for the French government; but isn't it open source?

https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr

rawgabbit 6 hours ago|
I found the answer in the FAQ. Anyone can deploy it in their own instance.

https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/#:~:text=LaSuite%20étant%2...

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