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Posted by bigwheels 1 day ago

A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/karpathy/status/2015883857489522876
354 points | 343 commentspage 6
uejfiweun 9 hours ago|
Honestly, how long do you guys think we have left as SWEs with high pay? Like the SWE job will still exist, but with a much lower technical barrier of entry, it strikes me that the pay is going to decrease a lot. Obviously BigCo codebases are extremely complex, more than Claude Code can handle right now, but I'd say there's definitely a timer running here. The big question for my life personally is whether I can reach certain financial milestones before my earnings potential permanently decreases.
jerf 9 hours ago||
It's counterintuitive but something becoming easier doesn't necessarily mean it becomes cheap. Programming has arguably been the easiest engineering discipline to break into by sheer force of will for the past 20+ years, and the pay scales you see are adapted to that reality already.

Empowering people to do 10 times as much as they could before means they hit 100 times the roadblocks. Again, in a lot of ways we've already lived in that reality for the past many years. On a task-by-task basis programming today is already a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, and we just grew our desires and the amount of controls and process we apply. Problems arise faster than solutions. Growing our velocity means we're going to hit a lot more problems.

I'm not saying you're wrong, so much as saying, it's not the whole story and the only possibility. A lot of people today are kept out of programming just because they don't want to do that much on a computer all day, for instance. That isn't going to change. There's still going to be skills involved in being better than other people at getting the computers to do what you want.

Also on a long term basis we may find that while we can produce entry-level coders that are basically just proxies to the AI by the bucketful that it may become very difficult to advance in skills beyond that, and those who are already over the hurdle of having been forced to learn the hard way may end up with a very difficult to overcome moat around their skills, especially if the AIs plateau for any period of time. I am concerned that we are pulling up the ladder in a way the ladder has never been pulled up before.

spaceman_2020 9 hours ago|||
I think the senior devs will be fine. They're like lawyers at this point - everyone is too scared they'll screw up and will keep them around

The juniors though will radically have to upskill. The standard junior dev portfolio can be replicated by claude code in like three prompts

The game has changed and I don't think all the players are ready to handle it

daxfohl 8 hours ago|||
Supply and demand. There will continue to be a need for engineers to manage these systems and get them to do the thing you actually want, to understand implications of design tradeoffs and help stakeholders weigh the pros and cons. Some people will be better at it than others. Companies will continue to pay high premiums for such people if their business depends on quality software.
tietjens 8 hours ago|||
I think to give yourself more context you should ask about the patterns that led to SWEs having such high pay in the last 10-15 years and why it is you expected it to stay that way.

I personally think the barrier is going to get higher, not lower. And we will be back expected to do more.

q3k 5 hours ago|||
I think the pay is going to skyrocket for senior devs within a few years, as training juniors that can graduate past pure LLM usage becomes more and more difficult.

Day after day the global quality of software and learning resources will degrade as LLM grey goo consumes every single nook and cranny of the Internet. We will soon see the first signs of pure cargo cult design patterns, conventions and schemes that LLMs made up and then regurgitated. Only people who learned before LLMs became popular will know that they are not to be followed.

People who aren't learning to program without LLMs today are getting left behind.

riku_iki 7 hours ago||
> like the SWE job will still exist, but with a much lower technical barrier of entry

its opposite, now in addition to all other skills, you need skill how to handle giant codebases of viobe-coded mess using AI.

DeathArrow 9 hours ago||
>LLM coding will split up engineers based on those who primarily liked coding and those who primarily liked building.

Quite insightful.

ares623 3 hours ago||
Imagine taking career advice from people who will never need to be employed again in order to survive.
fragmede 3 hours ago|
Yes, typically you take since from people who've been successful at their career. Are you suggesting we should be taking career advice from high school freshmen instead?
ares623 2 hours ago||
I'm nitpicking on the atrophy bit. He can afford to have his skills or his brain atrophied. His followers though?

Nevermind the fact he became successful _because_ of his skills and his brain.

Madmallard 1 day ago||
Are game developers vibe coding with agents?

It's such a visual and experiential thing that writing true success criteria it can iterate on seems like borderline impossible ahead of time.

20260126032624 9 hours ago||
I don't "vibe code" but when I use an LLM with a game I usually branch out into several experiments which I don't have to commit to. Thus, it just makes that iteration process go faster.

Or slower, when the LLM doesn't understand what I want, which is a bigger issue when you spawn experiments from scratch (and have given limited context around what you are about to do).

TheGRS 8 hours ago|||
I'm trying it out with Godot for my little side projects. It can handle writing the GUI files for nodes and settings. The workflow is asking cursor to change something, I review the code changes, then load up the game in Godot to check out the changes. Works pretty well. I'm curious if any Unity or Unreal devs are using it since I'm sure its a similar experience.
redox99 1 day ago||
Vibe coding in Unreal Engine is of limited use. It obviously helps with C++, but so much of your time is doing things that are not C++. It hurts a lot that UE relies heavily on blueprints, if they were code you could just vibecode a lot of that.
cyanydeez 1 day ago||
So I'm curious, whats the actual quality control.

Like, do these guys actually dog food real user experience, or are they all admins with the fast lane to the real model while everyone outside the org has to go through the 10 layers of model sheding, caching and other means and methods of saving money.

We all know these models are expensive as fuck to run and these companies are degrading service, A+B testing, and the rest. Do they actually ponder these things directly?

Just always seems like people are on drugs when they talk about the capabilities, and like, the drugs could be pure shit (good) or ditch weed, and we call just act like the pipeline for drugs is a consistent thing but it's really not, not at this stage where they're all burning cash through infrastructure. Definitely, like drug dealers, you know they're cutting the good stuff with low cost cached gibberish.

quinnjh 9 hours ago||
> Definitely, like drug dealers, you know they're cutting the good stuff with low cost cached gibberish.

Can confirm. My partner's chatGPT wouldnt return anything useful for her given a specific query involving web use, while i got the desired result sitting side by side. She contacted support and they said nothing they can do about it, her account is in an A/B test group without some features removed. I imagine this saves them considerable resources despite still billing customers for them.

how much this is occurring is anyones guess

bigwheels 1 day ago||
If you access a model through an openrouter provider it might be quantized (akin to being "cut with trash"), but when you go directly to Anthropic or OpenAI you are getting access to the same APIs as everyone else. Even top-brass folks within Microsoft use Anthropic and OpenAI proper (not worth the red-tape trouble to go directly through Azure). Also, the creator and maintainer of Claude, Boris Cherny, was a bit of an oddball but one of the comparatively nicer people at Anthropic, and he indicated he primarily uses the same Anthropic APIs as everyone else (which makes sense from a product development perspective).

The underlying models are all actually really undifferentiated under the covers except for the post-training and base prompts. If you eliminate the base prompts the models behave near identically.

A conspiracy would be a helluva lot more interesting and fun, but I've spoken to these folks firsthand and it seems they already have enough challenges keeping the beast running.

spaceman_2020 9 hours ago||
Once again, 80% of the comments here are from boomers.

HN used to be a proper place for people actually curious about technology

vardalab 7 hours ago||
I'm almost a boomer and I agree. THis dichotomy is weird. I am retired EE and I love the ability to just have AI do whatever I want for me. I have it manage a 10 node proxmox cluster in my basement via ansible and terraform. I can finally do stuff I always wanted but had no time. I got sick of editing my kids sports videos for highlights in Davinci Resolve so just asked claude to write a simple app for me and then use all my random video cards in my boxes to render clips in parallel and so on. Tech is finally fun again when I do not have to dedicate days to understand some new framework. It does feel a little like late 1990's computing when everyone was making geocities webpages but those days were more fun. Now with local llms getting strong as well and speaking to my PC instead of typing it feels like SciFi, so yeah, I do not get this hacker news hand wringing about code craft.
kejaed 7 hours ago||
So what is your workflow now with this app for kids sports highlights?
zennit 5 hours ago||
Also interested
weirdmantis69 9 hours ago||
Ya it's so weird lol
themafia 6 hours ago||
Instead of a 17 paragraph twitter post with a baffling TLDR at the end why not just record your screen and _demonstrate_ all of what you're describing?

Otherwise, I think you're incidentally right, your "ego" /is/ bruised, and you're looking for a way out by trying to prognosticate on the future of the technology. You're failing in two different ways.

wkh129857 9 hours ago|
It is pretty sad who much attention people give to someone who has never written any production software and leaves Tesla once video FSD becomes difficult.

This is just a rambling tweet that has all the hallmarks of an AI addict.

soganess 9 hours ago||
"addict"

Great idea! Le's pathalogize another thing! I love quickly othering whole concepts and putting them in my brain's "bad" box so I can feel superior.

reducesuffering 8 hours ago|||
https://github.com/karpathy/nanochat

https://github.com/karpathy/llm.c

The proof is in the pudding. Let's see your code

rvz 1 hour ago|||
You just proved the parent’s point.

He said “…who has never written any production software…” yet you show toy projects instead.

Well done.

jackling 6 hours ago|||
I don't agree with the parent commenters characterization of Karpathy, but these projects are just simple toy projects. They're educational material, not production level software.
lomase 5 hours ago||
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