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Posted by bookofjoe 7 hours ago

430k-year-old well-preserved wooden tools are the oldest ever found(www.nytimes.com)
https://archive.ph/mHlUT

https://apnews.com/article/oldest-wooden-tools-marathousa-1-...

https://archaeologymag.com/2026/01/430000-year-old-wooden-to...

272 points | 149 commentspage 2
melenaboija 3 hours ago|
Ok, since I moved to the US from Europe a few years ago my perception of wood has changed a lot, especially for construction. Seeing this reinforces my view.

Wood lasts for fucking ever under the proper conditions. Old construction in Europe often only had the beams made of wood, and I always thought that was orders of magnitude more durable than wooden houses, like thousands of years vs decades. I don’t think that’s true anymore.

And this might be one of the few environmentally friendly decisions that Americans got better than Europeans, I guess. Wood is still prevalent in construction here, and as far as I know concrete and cement production are quite bad.

BTW, I’m a total ignorant about all this so just intuition and probably wrong

barbacoa 3 hours ago||
>concrete and cement production are quite bad.

Modern concrete construction uses iron rebar liberally. That means every concrete structure built today will crack and crumble in a few hundred years at most, as the iron absorbs oxygen, it swells from the rust. Which is a shame, roman concrete buildings without rebar will still be standing 1000s of years from now.

nashashmi 1 hour ago|||
How about petrified wood? Would that also crack and crumble in the long run?
foxglacier 48 minutes ago|||
Roman construction was also much less efficient because they had no material (besides wood) capable of carrying load in tension. Rebar allows us to make cheap practical structures that are impossible with just concrete - roman style or not.
bdamm 10 minutes ago||
It would be quite fascinating to see what kind of structure we could produce if we decided to make the longest lasting cement structures we could create with modern technology, and assuming minimal maintenance over the lifetime of the building. A one-and-done kind of structure.

I bet we could do fairly well. Hundreds, maybe even thousands of years. We've learned a lot about how to form exceptionally long lasting cement. We just choose not to do it that way, most of the time.

NoImmatureAdHom 3 hours ago||
It's not totally a "decision" on the part of the Americans to use a lot of wood in construction. It's just that America has tons of space, including space useful for growing Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow Pine, which then can be turned in to 2x4s and other construction lumber.

Most of Europe long ago exhausted easily accessible natural forest resources, and where it's not densely populated tends to prefer using land to do other stuff (like grow food). Hence, stone and concrete and similar materials in European construction.

bdamm 7 minutes ago|||
While some lumber production happens in the United States, most lumber is imported from Canada. That's because while the USA does have good tracts of land on which lumber is grown, Canada has much, much more. This is why you see "Made in Canada" stamped on quite a lot of plywood and plenty of timer used in residential construction.

The part that I don't quite know how to make sense of is why Canadian producers seem to have a near monopoly on sandpaper products.

guywithahat 2 hours ago||
What's incredible about this too is they found it in England, which means they had to first build a boat to get there and leave the tools on the island
brightbeige 2 hours ago|
England wasn’t always an island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland

tiku 3 hours ago||
Now find the tools used by the Egyptians or the people before that lived there and made the tool markings..
maximgeorge 2 hours ago||
[dead]
dang 4 hours ago||
[stub for offtopicness]
wumms 6 hours ago||
Website has problems, NYT version: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/26/science/archaeology-neand...
dang 4 hours ago|||
Thanks, we've switched to that from https://archaeologymag.com/2026/01/430000-year-old-wooden-to... and put a couple extra links in the toptext.
cpncrunch 4 hours ago|||
That is paywalled. Try https://archive.ph/mHlUT
hahahahhaah 4 hours ago||
Recommend mods change it to this (or parent)
eigenspace 6 hours ago|||
Website appears to be down from too much traffic
barbazoo 5 hours ago|||
I actually saw the website, pictures of the tools and text and everything before it gave me the database error message. It would have been totally fine.
Salgat 6 hours ago||||
Ironically even archive.is just has the 503 page cached.
eigenspace 6 hours ago||
Yeah, that was me. I threw the link into archive.is to check if it had a snapshot, but it just created a shanpshot of the 503 before I could figure out how to cancel it.
engineer_22 5 hours ago||
Top box: my url is alive and I want to archive it's contents

Bottom box: I want to search the archive for saved snapshots

I have defaulted to using the bottom box first, since it's usually much faster

bookofjoe 6 hours ago|||
https://imgur.com/a/1cIZVDi
itsamario 6 hours ago||
God made things earlier than previously thought. Ha
jolt42 6 hours ago||
Finding red blood cells in 70 million year old bones. Still find that incomprehensible. Not sure King George didn't kill a dinosaur.
drakythe 6 hours ago||
For anyone else absolutely baffled by this statement: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/09/75-million-y...

Red blood cells, and collagen from dinosaur bones. With the idea that even current museum hosted bones might have more??? Today is a wild day for me.

metalman 6 hours ago||
It gets wilder, all of the finds mentioned so far are stuff I have heard of, then there are the intentional burials from millions of years agoby a tiny hominum in SA, deap in a cave complex that requires extream cave crawling to get into, and also from SA, there is strong evidence for the manufacture of red pigment @400kyr ago. And if you like, you can wander around certain sea sides and pick, little tiny dino trackways that have fallen out of the cliff, :)
adgjlsfhk1 5 hours ago||
> then there are the intentional burials from millions of years agoby a tiny hominum in SA, deap in a cave complex that requires extream cave crawling to get into

This is very heavily disputed and very much not consensus opinion. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_naledi#Possible_burials and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...)

Insanity 6 hours ago|||
It hit the HN hug of death it seems :(
SSLy 5 hours ago||
the site never loads
HocusLocus 5 hours ago||
I have always believed that the human evolution consensus which is usually based upon finds of advanced toolmaking in absence of culture cues, to be questionable by orders of magnitude. So it seemed natural to simply double generational concepts of the village along a trade route, from ~500kya (like the Nile) to 1 million YA as a hyperstable span of evolution of the 'trade route village'. I even wrote a book about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtxgpaXp9vA that might seem like whole fiction. But science seems not to ask, how many times might we have started over?
tootie 4 hours ago|
That's ridiculous. Scientists absolutely ask these questions. We just don't have the answers so we don't make assumptions. It is implicitly assumed there is an enormous amount of proto- and pre-human culture and technology that is undiscovered or undiscoverable. We have very long known that hominins made tools, art and structures out of organic material that has decayed beyond our ability to detect.
khalic 4 hours ago||
I can’t be the only one that saw the aforementioned tools and thought: did I misread stool?
riazrizvi 4 hours ago|
You're the only one.
an0malous 6 hours ago|
There is archaeological evidence of tools going back even further, potentially over a million years, but it's ignored for the usual reasons of dogma and not conveniently fitting into the paradigm of the current priestly class. I'd highly recommend this talk Michael Cremo (author of "Forbidden Archaeology") gave for this "Authors at Google" program in 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKfGC3P9KoQ

drakythe 6 hours ago||
That book name is... off putting, and his wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cremo) isn't encouraging in a quick scan...
anonymous908213 6 hours ago|||
It instantly destroys all credibility. Any serious theory would present itself on its own merits rather than going for the victimhood angle. When you title your book in such a way as to push the perceived victimhood to the forefront, it indicates that there is no convincing evidence and therefore the only option left to you is to play at the conspiracy angle, cursing the shadowy figures who are suppressing the "forbidden truth".
an0malous 6 hours ago|||
Why not just watch the talk and hear his argument from himself?

Wikipedia has a bias against everything outside of mainstream academia, there are activist groups like Guerrilla Skeptics that go through articles and rewrite them to undermine anything remotely fringe. It's not as objective as people like to think it is.

andrewflnr 5 hours ago|||
Because life is short and we have to prioritize the talks we watch. And if you've seen enough bullshit, you can smell it coming. So if someone gives strong signals that they're full of it, we don't bother.
drakythe 5 hours ago||||
Because charismatic people can make us believe just about anything, and if we think we're immune to that we just haven't met the right charismatic person. I like to do some searching when something jumps out at me, like his book name, to get some background before I invest more time into the topic.
ecshafer 4 hours ago||||
The self professed skeptic community is pretty extreme. Their arguments so often go beyond occams razor that is essentially absurdism to get around anything non-material or unexplained by current science / thinking.
w0de0 4 hours ago|||
Can you imagine was a useless mishmash of lies Wikipedia would be if it did not have a bias for mainstream academia!? Wither epistemology?
lmf4lol 6 hours ago|||
why do you think would this info be surpressed?
3RTB297 5 hours ago|||
I'm not the person you asked this of, but I've worked in museums and research settings and can lob a response your way.

Ultimately, it's that scientists are humans, too. Despite some of them really making their research data-forward, things like tenure, career, funding, and even who would publish your work now and in the future all create normal human environments that reward small, incremental changes to a body of knowledge that don't upset the apple cart, not discoveries that suggest huge changes. In fact, large changes and discoveries can be resisted and denied further research in favor of the status quo.

This is not a new phenomenon by any means:

Both warm-blooded dinosaurs and the Chicxulub impact were both theories dismissed as fringe for decades before overwhelming evidence led to them being accepted as likely. In no small way thanks to Jurassic Park.

Recall that eugenics and phrenology both used to be widely accepted scientific "fact."

100 fairly prominent scientists signed a letter stating emphatically that Einstein's Theory of Relatively was categorically wrong and should be retracted.

Plate tectonics was seen as fanciful crackpot musings for decades. The author of the original theory died 30 years before plate tectonics was even considered possible.

Germ theory was dismissed for most of Louis Pasteur's lifetime, despite being able to literally show people yeast in a microscope.

Helicentrism has a storied past.

Quantum theory was also denied heavily at first. Now it saves photos to our hard drives.

And how many times has the earliest dates of hominids and tool use and human thresholds of development been pushed back by tens of thousands of years?

This is not an exhaustive list, by any means.

So we have ancient examples and modern ones - and everything in between. So the level of education or scientific progress or equipment are not the cause. Humans are. Humans do this all the time. So until overwhelming evidence surfaces, which can take decades or longer, claims like this shouldn't be dismissed out of hand until proven solidly in error. A theory is a theory, so let it be a theory.

jrflowers 3 hours ago|||
>So until overwhelming evidence surfaces, which can take decades or longer, claims like this shouldn't be dismissed out of hand until proven solidly in error. A theory is a theory, so let it be a theory.

I like how the word “overwhelming” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

mmooss 5 hours ago|||
> I've worked in museums and research settings

You've worked in those settings, and you think archaeologists reject tool use older than 1 mya?

Also, you don't understand that science is a process, based on evidence, and revision is an essential part of that process? Archaeology especially advances regularly, because evidence can be relatively very rare. If they weren't revising it, it would mean the whole research enterprise - to expand knowledge - was failing.

> how many times has the earliest dates of hominids and tool use and human thresholds of development been pushed back by tens of thousands of years?

I don't know, how many times? Tool use is universally believed, in the field, to have begun at least 2.58 million years ago, and with strong evidence for 3.3 mya. Tens of thousands of years isn't in the debate. See this subthread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46782072

dpc050505 3 hours ago||||
It took about 30 years for every geologist to reach consensus on tectonic plates and continental drift. Old heads who'd invested a lot of their credibility arguing against it had a lot to lose by admitting they were wrong, so they refused to do it.

Bill Bryson's book A Short History of Nearly Everything is where I'm taking that from. It's a great read and shows all the ways in which scientists failed to see what was under their nose for decades before finally figuring out, which makes one wonder what's currently ripe for the picking.

an0malous 6 hours ago||||
I think it just doesn't fit into the accepted timeline so it's mostly ignored. This is a common pattern with scientific discovery where evidence that contradicts the prevailing paradigm is ignored and builds up until it can no longer be ignored and causes a paradigm shift. This idea comes from The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn.
naikrovek 5 hours ago|||
I think you're making that up. It is widely known that tools predate humans.
fsckboy 5 hours ago|||
so you're saying archeology and anthropology advance one uncovered ancient gravesite at a time?
bflesch 6 hours ago|||
"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

As long as there is low number of samples with such age you should always assume methodological mistakes in measurement

mmooss 5 hours ago|||
> There is archaeological evidence of tools going back even further, potentially over a million years, but it's ignored for the usual reasons of dogma and not conveniently fitting into the paradigm of the current priestly class.

? I don't think you can find anyone in archaeology who says tool use began less than 1 million years ago (mya). Maybe you mean something else?

The univeral consensus in archaeology says tools emerged either 3.3 mya, which is still subject to debate last I knew, and certainly by 2.58 mya - the Odowan industry famously discovered by the Leakeys in the Oldovai Gorge in Tanzania, in 1969.

The same consensus continues with the development of the more advanced Acheulean industry ~1.76 mya, which dominated until ~ 400,000 years ago (arguably the most successful technology ever).

throwup238 5 hours ago||
[flagged]
dang 4 hours ago||
> Am I taking crazy pills, or are you?

Please edit out swipes, as the site guidelines ask (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are.

Your comment would be fine without that first bit.