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Posted by martinald 5 days ago

Two kinds of AI users are emerging(martinalderson.com)
354 points | 339 commentspage 3
tiangewu 5 days ago|
Microsoft's failure around copilot in Excel gave my partner a very poor impression on AI's ability to help with financial tasks.

It took a lot of convincing, but I finally got her to start using ChatGPT to help her write SQL and walk her through setting up some SaaS accounting software formulas.

It worked so well now she's trying to find more applications at work. Claude code is too scary for her though. That will need to be in some Web UI before she feels comfortable giving it a try.

NookDavoos 5 days ago|
Install "Claude for Excel" addon directly in the Excel itself. Works well.
camgunz 5 days ago||
I think this article is generally insightful, but I don't think the author really knows if they one shotted the excel to python transformation or not. Maybe they elided an extensive testing phase, but otherwise big bugs could be lurking.

Maybe it's not a big deal, or maybe it's a compliance model with severe financial penalties for non-compliance. I just personally don't kind these tradeoffs going implicit.

BolsunBacset 4 days ago|
The author also said "almost" one shotted. Almost can mean a lot of things. I'm almost rich and almost handsome. But just not there...
darepublic 4 days ago||
On mobile Firefox the subscribe modal extends past the width of the viewport. I assume the close button is hanging out there outside of view. For all the peddlers of the astonishing power of agents.. why is your software subpar. This sounds like snark but I'm actually serious. Anyone crowing about the productivity gains I expect to see fast high quality software
notepad0x90 4 days ago||
I suspect there are much more than two kinds. there is a varying degree of understanding what these tools are capable of, and that multiplied by what people need and how much they care about outcomes and consequences is the number of "kinds" of AI users.

Let's take the group of developers (to keep it simple) that have a deep understanding of LLMs and how they work. Even then, some don't care if it generates entire codebases for them, some know there will be bugs in it, they just don't care. Some care, but they know their job is to make their project managers happy. Others don't have apathy or pressure like that, but they'll still use it in the same way, because for one reason or the other it saves them time. I'm probably missing more examples, but it is the same usage, but different motivations, people, and environments.

satiated_grue 2 days ago||
This seems to be a bit of an echo of the 1980s and the power shift brought about by the introduction of the IBM PC - the decentralization of control over data and processes from the walled garden of the computer room to the people at their desks with VisiCalc and BASIC, and then the explosion of productivity software.
fauigerzigerk 5 days ago||
>What I've come to realise is that the power of having a bash sandbox with a programming language and API access to systems, combined with an agentic harness, results in outrageously good results for non technical users. It can effectively replace nearly every standard productivity app out there - both classic Microsoft Office style ones - and also web apps.

I very much doubt that tinkering with a non-repeatable, probabilistic process is how most non-technical users will routinely use software.

I can imagine power users taking this approach to _create_ or extend productivity tools for themselves and others, just like they have been doing with Excel for decades. It will not _replace_ productivity tools for most non-technical users.

FilosofumRex 5 days ago||
Generally speaking, if you're using your coding agent as your assistant inside your IDE, you're missing out on 80% of its benefits... If anything you should ask it how to do something and then act as its assistant on implementing it
PunchyHamster 5 days ago|
also missing out on 80% of bugs
datsci_est_2015 5 days ago||
Thought this was going to be more about programmers, but it was actually about non technical users and Microsoft’s product development failure.

One tidbit I’d disagree with is that only those using the bleeding edge AI tools are reaping the benefits. There seem to be a lot of highly specialized tools and a lot of specific configurations (and mystical incantations) to get them to work, and those are constantly changing and being updated. The bleeding edge is a dangerous place to be if you value your time (and sanity).

Personally, as someone working on moderate-to-highly complex software (live inference of industrial IoT data), I can’t really open a merge / pull request for my colleagues to review unless I 100% understand what I’ve pushed, and can explain to them as well.

My killer app for AI would just be a CLI that gets me to a commit based on moderately technical input:

“Add this configuration variable for this entry point; split this class into two classes, one for each of the responsibilities that are currently crammed together; update the unit tests to reflect these changes, including splitting the tests for the old class into two different test classes; etc”

But, all the hype of the bleeding edge is around abstracting away the entire coding process until you don’t even understand what code is being generated? Hard to see it as anything but a pipe dream. AI is useful, but it’s not a panacea - you can’t fire it and replace it when it fucks up.

georgeburdell 5 days ago||
“Add this configuration variable for this entry point; split this class into two classes, one for each of the responsibilities that are currently crammed together; update the unit tests to reflect these changes, including splitting the tests for the old class into two different test classes; etc”

Granted I'm way behind the curve, but is this not how actual engineers (and not influencers) are using it? I heavily micro-manage the implementation because my manager still expects me to know the code

datsci_est_2015 4 days ago||
You could hardly believe that this is how actual engineers are using it if you only browsed HN. Maybe HN is only influencers?
copilot_king_2 4 days ago||
Maybe Anthropic has a social media team and internet forums like HN are easily manipulable?
Leynos 5 days ago|||
> “Add this configuration variable for this entry point; split this class into two classes, one for each of the responsibilities that are currently crammed together; update the unit tests to reflect these changes, including splitting the tests for the old class into two different test classes; etc”

That's the type of input I give to Claude / Codex. Works for me.

datsci_est_2015 4 days ago||
Yes, but then you’re not the bleeding edge of agentic coding as described in this article, then. The bleeding edge is “Hey agent, turn this 30 sheet excel workbook into a Python script” and all of the AGENTS.md required to make that happen.
chrisjj 4 days ago||
> all the hype of the bleeding edge is around abstracting away the entire coding process until you don’t even understand what code is being generated?

The less you understood about code to start with, the quicker you achieve this goal... and the less prepared you are for the consequences.

rob 4 days ago||
The number of people I've run into with a non-technical background that think ChatGPT is the definitive end-all for AI is very high. Most just don't know anything else even exists.

I do wonder how long they'll be able to use this to their advantage before something "else" comes along. Like how IE had the largest market share before Chrome and other alternatives started catching up.

Then again, some markets like YouTube still haven't had any real serious alternatives. Maybe ChatGPT will always be number one in the consumer eyes.

anal_reactor 5 days ago|
> This effectively leads to a situation where smaller company employees are able to be so much more productive than the equivalent at an enterprise. It often used to be that people at small companies really envied the resources & teams that their larger competitors had access to - but increasingly I think the pendulum is swinging the other way.

Small companies are more agile and innovative while corporations often just shuffle papers around. Wow, what a bold claim, never seen before in the entire history of economics.

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