Top
Best
New

Posted by geox 4 days ago

Banning lead in gas worked. The proof is in our hair(attheu.utah.edu)
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2525498123
381 points | 331 commentspage 2
FlyingBears 3 days ago|
Don’t worry, we can get our lead from spices and every food that includes them. Lead is cheaper to get than cinnamon and even cocoa, so it ends up being favored adulterant to increase weight at sale.
paulryanrogers 3 days ago|
Considering what lead does to people, there should be jail time for everyone involved. Even store managers should do time if products on their shelves turn up positive.
krunck 3 days ago||
Also: Preserved hair reveals just how bad lead exposure was in the 20th century (livescience.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46872282
lysace 3 days ago||
During the past year I have discovered that almost all retailers here in Sweden have voluntarily replaced their usual Teflon/polytetrafluoroethylene/PTFE frying pan coatings with something called 'ceramic'. (This includes IKEA globally, I assume.)

The thing is - it's simply not as good. The worst case is probably frying frozen gyoza. They will get stuck when they get gelatinous on that 'ceramic' surface.

I ended up looking up some slightly offbrand stores to get the pan that I wanted.

LorenPechtel 1 day ago||
Yeah, the alternatives aren't as good. They're safer, though.

Teflon and it's relatives--so long as you don't expose them to enough heat to mess with the C-F bonds, they're probably safe. But Teflon only exists as a solid, it will decompose before melting, thus the problem becomes how to form it? You need a solvent--a solvent that dissolves that which is famous for being impervious. To date only one such solvent has ever been found: it's pretty close chemically but one bond doesn't have a F stuck on it so it will play nice with both Teflon (which is what most of the molecule looks like) and other things (the piece that isn't like Teflon.) Can you hope to recover all of the solvent from the finished product? No way. And that solvent will react in the body, it's not inert like the Teflon. Toxic down to the detection threshold.

They have played games, producing "different" solvents but they're all the same thing, the same reactive part connected to a chain of a different length that is fully fluorinated. The length of the inert chain doesn't change anything, the toxicity comes from the one reactive part.

munificent 3 days ago||
Humans were able to successfully fry food for hundreds of years before Teflon was invented.

I still like non-stick pans for eggs, but for almost everything else, I prefer stainless steel, cast iron, or enameled cast iron. You do have to pay a little more attention to technique (knowing what temperature to heat the pan to before you put food on, etc.), but the end result is just about as good as a non-stick pan with many advantages:

* You don't have to be obsessive about never letting a metal utensil scratch the pan. (I hope you aren't using a metal spatula or fork with your non-stick!)

* You can scrape the hell out of the pan while you cook and get all that delicious crispy fond into what you're making. If I'm doing a pan sauce, it's always in the Dutch oven so I can get that fond into the gravy.

* They last a lot longer. Even if you are careful, a non-stick pan will lose its coating and need to be replaced after a handful of years. I got my cast iron skillet for $15 at an antique store. It's older than me and will outlive me.

* You're not, you know, eating forever chemicals.

lysace 3 days ago||
I remember seeing a bunch of research showing that any teflon you ate was just pooped out, so to speak.

This ceramic pan I bought from IKEA lasted like 3-5 months until I was unhappy with it. Historically, the teflon pans I have bought from there have lasted 12-18 months easily.

munificent 3 days ago|||
For comparison:

* I don't know how old my cast iron skillet is because I literally bought it from an antique store but I've had it for over a decade and it's in better shape than ever.

* My $60 Lodge Dutch oven is over a decade old and has been used hundreds of times.

* My stainless steel All-Clad skillet is relatively new at 5-6 years but is no worse than the day I got it.

lysace 3 days ago||
(I also used to default to comment in bullet lists, because that's how I think. I have realized most people don't do that, so I have worked on writing in a more fluent style in order to appear less rigid. :) )

I think my main complaint is with e.g. IKEA changing their default frying pan coating dramatically without clear communication.

munificent 2 days ago||
I encourage you to write in whatever style feels most authentic to you.

* Tables are fine if you like them

* Some readers won't like them

* But the ones who do will like your real writing style

:)

LorenPechtel 1 day ago|||
It is just pooped out. The problem is the remaining solvent isn't.
vintermann 4 days ago||
> The Utah part of this is so interesting because of the way people keep track of their family history.

Definitively interesting that they could get so many old hair samples with good provenance.

munificent 3 days ago|
It's interesting that the paper doesn't mention this, but the answer here is Latter Day Saints. They have a very strong culture of genealogy and preserving family history. The study authors are all in Salt Lake City, which is the Mormon capital of the world.
vintermann 3 days ago||
Yes, I guess they assumed it went without saying.

I have a lot of respect for LDS genealogy efforts. It clearly goes beyond the baptizing the dead thing. Many of them take it very seriously, and they don't shy away from things that challenge the Mormon narratives (mainly DNA evidence not giving support for their peculiar American settlement theories).

t1234s 3 days ago||
You used to be able to buy leaded 110 gas as Sunoco in the early 2000's. It would make your exhaust tips turn white and had a sort of candy like smell when combusted.
Faaak 3 days ago||
AFAIK that's why leaded paint is bad for children: it tastes sweet so they continue licking it/eating the chips of paint that fall off the wall
latexr 3 days ago|||
You’re conjuring an image of children licking walls, but just the dust from the flaking paint chips is harmful.

https://www.cdc.gov/lead-prevention/prevention/paint.html

t1234s 3 days ago||||
Water from lead pipes must have tasted amazing
titzer 3 days ago||
Ancient Romans used lead as a sweetener.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/sugar-of-lead-a-...

ljlolel 3 days ago|||
It’s why they added it to wine
bluedino 3 days ago|||
You can buy it online from Sunoco

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-supreme-112-octan...

I think they only sell the unleaded race gas at the pumps now but I may be wrong.

grubbs 3 days ago|||
I remember people with various "tunes" at the racetrack would run this stuff. It definitely smelled like candy!
myself248 3 days ago|||
Wait 'til you learn about avgas!
justin66 3 days ago||
You can still buy the same stuff at an airport or race track.
cyanydeez 3 days ago||
I would argue it worked, but not fast enough. I think the current American politics run by 50-80 year olds with significant lead poisoning.
j45 3 days ago||
The concerning thing is how lead, arsenic are being found in things they are not reported in or labelled as being safe.
_DeadFred_ 3 days ago|
I wonder how big a factor this is in creating podcast bros/tech bros. Is there actually a pipeline from 'get guy to start working out' to becoming a dumb bro?

https://www.consumerreports.org/lead/protein-powders-and-sha...

j45 3 days ago||
Seems to be a regularish occurrence far beyond the podcast/tech crowd in many areas.

Blind doubting of things can be as bad as blindly believing they're safe, if we don't know who's, or if anyone is keeping the safety honest. Capitalism can too often lean towards optimizing profit.

Testing for lead, etc can be done independently pretty easily and consistently enough to get a statistically high enough correlation of what's going on.

I get the stereotypes - but consuming anything in an unbalanced way will lead to being out of balance. Food, caffiene, alcohol, supplements.

chhxdjsj 3 days ago||
I wish someone would do a large RCT of water fluoridation in pregnant women looking at long term cognitive outcomes if fetuses. It would be an easy study to do (just randomize each group to receive free deliveries of either fluoridated or not fluoridated water) and then look at their offspring’s scores on cognitive tests every few years. I think reputable scientists don’t touch this because they’re afraid of being labelled kooky.
LorenPechtel 1 day ago|
Does the word Tuskegee mean anything to you? Because that's basically what you are asking for.

Nor is there any need for such a study as we have a natural one: some areas have more fluorine in the water than others. We started putting fluorine in the water because we noticed that the places with higher natural levels had better teeth. There comes a point where it's too much and downsides appear, but, again, we already knew that. Note that this is a completely normal thing--there is nothing which is not toxic in sufficient quantity. Including *everything* that is necessary for human life. What would be strange is if there wasn't some maximum safe level. Some things the body easily eliminates and the range between minimum and maximum is quite wide. Things which are not so easily eliminated have narrower ranges. Thus we have the situation where overdose of water-soluble vitamins is basically unheard-of, but overdose of fat-soluble vitamins very definitely happens.

halamadrid 3 days ago|
If someone in the admin reads this, there is a chance this will be reversed and lead will be allowed in gas again :)
More comments...