Posted by robin_reala 2 days ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hnrayst
Something weird is going on at Hacker News recently. I've been noticing these more and more.
If you can see the screen, it's the fastest shortcut gesture to the screen that has "Slide to Power Off", "Medical ID", and "Emergency Call". Any other way to get to that screen also works to require a PIN before next unlock.
I mean, i agree with you, but its a really weird line in the sand to draw
Providing your 'finger' to unlock a device is no different than providing your 'key' to unlock something. So you can be compelled to provide those biometrics.
Compelling you to reveal a password is not some *thing* you have but knowledge you contain. Being compelled to provide that knowledge is no different than being compelled to reveal where you were or what you were doing at some place or time.
I don't get it, touching finger is easy, but how do you compel someone to reveal their password?
Something you are: can be legally compelled Something you have: can be legally compelled Something you know: cannot be legally compelled
This reporter very likely knew who she was dealing with. For users like her, everything is likely locked down and she probably didn't do much sharing.
I'm thinking that, to her, her sources would be probably one of the most important things in her life to protect.
Looks like lockdown mode is focused on blocking inbound threats, not the sharing of data from the device.
Can anyone link a source for this? I’ve been seeing conflicting claims about this part.
She was not forced, and the warrant does not state that she could be forced. The warrant, almost certainly deliberately, uses far milder language.
> 52. These warrants would also permit law enforcement to obtain from Natanson the display of physical biometric characteristics (e.g., fingerprint, thumbprint, or facial characteristics) in order to unlock devices subject to search and seizure pursuant to the above referenced warrants
> 60. Accordingly, if law enforcement personnel encounter a device that is subject to search and seizure pursuant to the requested warrants and may be unlocked using one of the aforementioned biometric features, the requested warrants would permit law enforcement personnel to (1) press or swipe the fingers (including thumbs) of the Subject to the fingerprint scanner of the device(s); or (2) hold the devices in front of the Subject's face for the purpose of attempting to unlock the device(s) in order to search the contents as authorized by the warrants
So yes law enforcement had the right to grab her hand and press it against the laptop to unlock before seizing it if that's what they had to do.
[0] https://www.rcfp.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/2026-01-30-I...
From pages 20 and 22 of ... not the warrant:
It'd certainly be a good first step to figure out how to identify whether or not the PDF you're linking to is in fact a warrant at all before trying to educate others on them.
This document is specifically asking for the right to force biometric access. It seems based on reporting that biometric access was granted.
If you're claiming the warrant doesn't force biometric access despite it being request, you need to substantiate the claim.
They're merely presenting a wishlist to the judge.
The court can compel you to make your fingers available, it can not force you to disclose which finger or the manner in which you touch that finger on the fingerprint sensor. Apple devices allow only limited attempts.
If you're not being actively helpful, the investigators may end in a rather awkward position.
It's fun to try to find places where the rules seem to leave holes but it's important to remember the courts don't have to hew precisely to how you read the law. I see that a lot on tech centric boards where the law is treated like it's strictly, precisely, and impartially interpreted down to the exact words (though often not using the legal meaning of words which have decades of caselaw and interpretation informing their legal meaning).
Making your body parts available is not testimonial, answering "Which finger?" undoubtedly is.
Unless that's already established in your circuit you're counting on the court agreeing with your interpretation because the cops/courts certainly think they can compel that.
All I'm doing is cautioning you and anyone else reading against DIY legal interpretations. Have a lawyer.
>During the execution of the search of HANNAH NATANSON as described in Attachment A-3, law enforcement personnel are authorized to (1) press or swipe the fingers (including thumbs) of HANNAH NATANSON to the fingerprint scanner of the device; (2) hold a device found during the search in front of the face of HANNAH NATANSON and activate the facial recognition feature, for the purpose of attempting to unlock the device in order to search the contents as authorized by this warrant.
>While attempting to unlock the device by use of the compelled display of biometric characteristics pursuant to this warrant, law enforcement is not authorized to demand that an occupant state or otherwise provide the password or identify the specific biometric characteristics (including the unique fingers) or other physical features), that may be used to unlock or access the device(s). Nor does the warrant authorize law enforcement to use the fact that the warrant allows law enforcement to obtain the display of any biometric characteristics to compel an occupant to state or otherwise provide that information. However, the voluntary disclosure of such information by an occupant is permitted. To avoid confusion on that point, if agents in executing the warrant ask an occupant for the password to any device(s), or to identify which biometric characteristic (including the unique fingers) or other physical features) unlocks any device(s), the agents will not state or otherwise imply that the warrant requires the person to provide such information, and will make clear that providing any such information is voluntary and that the person is free to refuse the request.
Also FWIW that's boilerplate language commonly used on these warrants across multiple federal districts, google "While attempting to unlock the device by use of the compelled display" and see for yourself.
Touch ID allows only limited attempts, so odds are the FBI wouldn't just try to wrestle her to attempt different fingers on the spot even if they were allowed to do so.
For example. I can just as equally state with the same data to back me up (ie: none as it stands right now) that you are a US government plant posting propaganda to encourage people to not use safer technologies and as a result make their data easier to spy on.
You can't possibly know this is what happened here, it's an observational bias.
Note that these are not crackable only if you have a strong password (random one will work). Unlike on phones, there is nothing slowing down brute force attempts, only the comparatively much weaker PBKDFs if you use a password. You want at least about 64 bits of entropy, and you should never use that password anywhere else, since they would basically run "strings" on your stuff to attempt the brute force.
Ah, while I was a bit suspicious, I thought it might be real (weirdly worded). What exactly is the point of fabricating this?- Is there a joke I'm blind to?
If the government wants to get in they’re going to get in. They can also hold you in contempt until you do.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good thing that law enforcement cant easily access this on their own. Just feels like the government is working with Apple here to help move some phones.
Anyway, it's a good thing to be skeptical about claims that iphones can't be hacked by government agencies, as long as it doesn't mean you're driven to dodgier parties (as those are guaranteed honeypots).
You only said half the sentence anyway. The full sentence is: "If the government wants to get in they're going to get in, unless they want to utilize the courts in any way, in which case they have to do things the right way."
If this reporter was a terrorist in Yemen they would have just hacked her phone and/or blown up her apartment. Or even if they simply wanted to knock off her source they probably could have hacked it or gotten the information in some other illicit fashion. But that's not what is happening here.