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Posted by fortran77 2 days ago

Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems(www.wsj.com)
Gift link: https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/microsofts-pivotal-ai-product-is...
295 points | 371 commentspage 2
chakintosh 1 day ago|
I opened Excel today to view a spreadsheet and just out of curiosity, I decided to use the Copilot integration for the first time to ask it about a column's content. Copilot was clueless. The spreadsheet was open, the Copilot button is right there in the UI, as a user, the affordance of that button for me is that Copilot should already have the context (which is the spreadsheet content). But it didn't, and it kept asking me for the spreadsheet like it's open in a browser window.
nashashmi 1 day ago||
I always find myself recalibrating if copilot understands what I am doing. I get mixed results. cannot seem to come up with a consistent rule of thumb.
thewhitetulip 1 day ago||
I wanted to do something complex in google sheets. We had just gotten Gemini in gsheet. I assumed they'd have used some fancy mcp and enabled us to do a lot of things but all gemini in gsheet could do was summarize
Andrex 1 day ago||
It sounds like that's still a step up from Copilot.

I know Gemini has more advanced features in Docs and they rolled something out for Sheets. I would bet GWorkspace keeps gaining ground on the functionality battle.

petersumskas 2 days ago||
AI is like electricity. It may be the “product” you think you are selling. But it isn’t the product people are buying.

People are buying what these things facilitate (lights, tvs, air conditioning, etc in the case of electricity)

I think the AI folk have generally done a terrible job of connecting the dots to show people what they are actually getting.

It’s worth noting that some things mentioned above already existed before electricity. So people needed to be shown that electric light is in almost all ways better, cheaper, more convenient than existing alternatives.

podgorniy 1 day ago||
> I think the AI folk have generally done a terrible job of connecting the dots to show people what they are actually getting.

Confusion and fear are much better for stock prices than clarity

rossdavidh 1 day ago||
If what they are getting is "not much, plus a side order of hallucination", then connecting the dots is exactly what they DON'T want to do.
PaulHoule 2 days ago||
I think the plain ordinary chatbot behind the Copilot on the desktop is fine, it seems like a skin around ChatGPT-5 in the "Smart" mode and in the "Search" mode it compares to Google's AI mode.

When it comes to anything multimodal it is an absolute disaster. Show it a photo of a plant for a plant id? Forget about it, just take a picture of the screen on your phone with Google Lens. If you ask it to draw something or make a Microsoft Word document you'll regret it.

For advice about how to do things on the command line or how bootstrap works or how to get out of a pickle you got yourself in Git it is great. It writes little scripts as well as anybody but you can't trust it to get string escaping right for filenames in bash scripts which is one reason I'd want help. For real coding I use Junie because I'm a Jetbrains enthusiast but other people seem to swear by Claude Code.

I do dread the day though when Microsoft decides to kill Copilot because I will miss it.

cyrusradfar 2 days ago||
The 3.3% paid conversion is not great.

Believe it or not, the Recon Analytics trend is actually worse primary usage among Copilot subscribers dropped from 18.8% to 11.5% since July while Gemini climbed past it.

People who paid are leaving.

That's a churn problem.

The tell is buried in the article: workers who have access to Copilot, ChatGPT, and Gemini side by side choose ChatGPT and Gemini at higher rates.

Some companies are using 10% of their paid seats. Microsoft's CMO of AI says growth is "unlike anything we've seen before" but won't share the numbers.

That's the "we're thrilled with preorders" of AI.

This is the Ballmer story all over again.

  - Massive distribution advantage
  - Captive enterprise base
Somehow still losing to the thing people actually want to use.

Windows Phone had carrier deals too.

The problem is the same: you can't mandate delight.

This part is laughable, can't believe it leaked:

  > "About a year ago, Nadella sent a frustrated email to Rajesh Jha, 
  > executive vice president of experiences and devices, detailing an incident in which 
  > Nadella had asked the enterprise version of Copilot on the Edge browser 
  > to help with a public webpage he was on, 
  > but it couldn't fulfill his prompt"
Meanwhile three different orgs inside Microsoft all own something called "Copilot" and none of them talk to each other.

Meanwhile, Anthropic ships Cowork after 10 days and it just explodes with the market.

code_for_monkey 2 days ago||
> Meanwhile three different orgs inside Microsoft all own something called "Copilot" and none of them talk to each other.

I audibly winced

wolvoleo 2 days ago||
There are in fact almost 30 products with Copilot in the name now. Though they've seem to have cut a few recently like the sales version
mook 2 days ago|||
> unlike anything we've seen before

They probably haven't seen (to pull a number out of a hat) negative three billion percent growth before either…

Izikiel43 2 days ago|||
> growth is "unlike anything we've seen before"

This says nothing about where the growth is going

g947o 2 days ago|||

  > but it couldn't fulfill his prompt"
Not surprised. Copilot censors queries to the point that it is often useless.

Another reason to use ChatGPT.

neumann 2 days ago||
Which copilot?

github copilot? bing copilot? office365 copilot? office365 copilot chat? windows copilot? or one of those clippy like copilots in dev environments that can't do anything but point you to the wrong documentation?

Schlagbohrer 2 days ago||
Does anyone know why microsoft thought it would be a good idea to alter the right-click menu in a folder to hide all the important choices behind a second, "Show more options" click? Just making the user click once more where previously they didnt have to?
hbn 1 day ago||
I use StartAllBack to replace the Start menu with more or less the Windows 7 one, and it also has features to restore file explorer to the more sensible Windows 7/8 versions.
netsharc 2 days ago||
God, it's so dumb. And these 2 menues have 2 different looks, because I guess for Windows 11 they reimplemented it in whatever fancy fucking UI framework they decided to make, but they didn't complete the implementation so they still had to offer the "legacy" version of the menu.

For a long while "Settings" had 2 interfaces, 1 that looks like it's from the iPhone, and the other which is from "Control Panel"...

Schlagbohrer 2 days ago||
I forgot that there are three different, separate, different-looking settings menus for the mouse, which show three layers of legacy OS implementation.

Also for display settings windows 11 has two different areas where pieces of display settings can be changed.

netsharc 1 day ago||
My work computer's Win 11 install is originally French, I'm using the English UI. Searching for "Display" in the start menu shows me Display-related settings... in English and French. Looking at it closely, the English results point to settings available via the Control Panel, and the French ones point to settings in the "Settings" app. Picking a French result opens the Settings app, in English.

But yeah, Microsoft competency means it's also fine to show some search results in the language which isn't the user's preferred UI language.

mjr00 2 days ago||
Microsoft's focus was making it so that AI could allow unskilled workers to replace skilled workers. The hope was that everyone but sales/management could be offshored to SEA/India/etc and AI would somehow make up for the skill differential.

The successful AI companies are making it so that skilled workers can use AI as a tool to be more productive and efficient.

bagacrap 2 days ago|
Yeah, my experience is currently pointing towards AI replacing the cheap workers instead of the expensive ones.
kotaKat 2 days ago||
Maybe Microsoft needs to fix the cart before they put the jet engines on top of it and try to kill the horses off.

Go back to fixing what’s wrong with Windows, then worry about the AI software running on top of it and where you can add a value proposition, because right now the Windows value proposition is continuing to go right down the shitter as everyone flees Windows 11.

PaulHoule 2 days ago||
Can't say Win 11 is really that bad.

Contrast that to the Linux desktop which "just doesn't work" and my M4 Mac Mini that amazed me with how fast it was when I bought it and a year later it is beachball... beachball... beachball... reboot. beachball... beachball... beachball... Doesn't help that they vandalized the UI by adding meaningless transparency effects which don't actually look cool but rather look like they added anti-antialiasing to the edges of everything for now reason.

DANmode 2 days ago||||
The reason is they’re gearing up to push the AR/VR-first UI/UX.

and it’s definitely got some bad edges right now.

Literally.

exceptione 2 days ago|||

  > which "just doesn't work"
Some are more tech savy than others here, but I guess almost anyone can do the following trick successfully:

  step 1. visit https://endeavouros.com/
  step 2. download iso
  step 3. flash iso on medium
  step 4. boot medium, installation window shows
  step 5. you choose KDE, yes: KDE. Do more mouse clicks.
  step 6. system tells you it's done, and offers you to reboot.
Done.
zxcvasd 2 days ago||
>I guess almost anyone can do the following

almost everyone knows the formula for olvine and quartz, too, of course

theres probably less than 10 people in my entire company that know half of the words you wrote there. whats an "iso"? what is "flashing" the "iso"? how do i "boot medium"? what is "KDE" and why do i want to say yes?

(i know what these are, and maybe most people browsing a tech-focused forum with "hacker" in the name, but the vast majority of people do not)

exceptione 2 days ago||
You are right, I somehow forgot the word "here" after "anyone". I don't expect the average laymen be able to follow these steps, but I have those expectations from the people here.
theappsecguy 2 days ago||
According to the CEO peddling AI, software engineers are about to be replaced by AI, how come AI hasn't fixed all of their atrocious software hmmm..
1vuio0pswjnm7 2 days ago||
https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/artificial-intelligence...

Text-only, no Javascript:

https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/AA1VBKdf...

redbell 2 days ago|
> After leaning on its partnership with OpenAI, Microsoft is playing catch-up in the chatbot race. But data shows that it is losing ground with users.

This explains perfectly the annoying behavior when you search for ChatGPT using Edge. The top thing that appear to you is, well, Copilot and not ChatGPT! Tagged as "Promoted by Microsoft" and labeled as "Your Copilot is here", is clearly a weak move from MS to push Copilot as possible as it can despite its limitations in what it can do compared to its competitors.

At this current time, I think MS situation in the AI arena is not very far from Apple.

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