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Posted by jakequist 2 days ago

OpenClaw is what Apple intelligence should have been(www.jakequist.com)
512 points | 410 commentspage 2
randusername 1 day ago|
I haven't seen mention of macOS Automator or AppleScript yet.

15 years ago or so almost everything you wanted to do on a Mac GUI already _was_ scriptable.

Shortcuts is better than nothing, but unsatisfying.

I read this less as a fumble and more as a frustrating sign of the times. Automation is not powerful because powerful automation is a maintenance and malfeasance liability only valued by a tiny minority.

threetonesun 1 day ago|
Shortcuts on the desktop can run shell commands or Applescript. You can send a limited number of things to Apple Intelligence in it already too. I still rarely use it. There's probably good things I could codify (like search all my Mail and Calendar events for a given string), but the reality is most stuff I don't do on a regular basis, and a natural language request to go do something would be a lot easier.
TheRoque 2 days ago||
This post completely has it backwards, people are buying Apple hardware because they don't shove AI down everyone's throat unlike microsoft. And in a few weeks OpenClaw will be outdated or deemed too unsecure anyways, it will never be a long-term products, it's just some crazy experiment for the memes.
avaer 2 days ago||
> An AI agent that clicks buttons.

Are people's agents actually clicking buttons (visual computer use) or is this just a metaphor?

I'm not asking if CU exists, but rather is this literally the driver of people's workflows? I thought everyone is just running Ralph loops in CC.

For an article making such a bold technological/social claim about a trillion dollar company, this seems a strange thing to be hand wavey about.

monkpit 2 days ago||
Not mine, the plugin doesn’t work on Mac apparently :) a bug with calculating coordinates to click.
nerdsniper 2 days ago||
Https://heyblue.com does, very helpful for people with disabilities or when driving.
verdverm 2 days ago||
get off your devices when driving, it's as dangerous as being drunk behind the wheel
nerdsniper 2 days ago||
You don’t look at it, you just talk to it and it can talk back to you. It’s more just having a conversation with a personal assistant while driving. Which is a pretty common thing to do.
Schiendelman 2 days ago|||
That is nearly as dangerous - it causes inattention blindness.
senordevnyc 1 day ago||
No, it's really not.
verdverm 1 day ago||
Close to 10 deaths per day (>3000 per year) and 10% of all traffic fatalities in the US, and you want to claim it's not dangerous?

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving

nerdsniper 1 day ago|||
I'd reckon 9/10 instances of "distracted driving" deaths involve texting/looking at the phone. Maybe this could reduce those numbers by 90%.
verdverm 1 day ago||
Is it so hard to put the phone down for the minutes you are driving during? Is it that addicting?

Why is it so imperative to use your phone while behind the wheel? Might it be better to use this time to break the addiction?

nerdsniper 1 day ago||
Idk. I don’t have a car. I still turn my phone off for 24-48 hours at a time because I enjoyed the ways things were before cell phones existed. I applaud people who pull over to take a phone call instead of using hands free talking. I am also curious if something like this might significantly reduce deaths due to inattentive driving or not.
senordevnyc 1 day ago|||
I am absolutely saying that your claim that conversing is nearly as dangerous as looking at your phone, is total nonsense. And your link doesn't do anything to support your claim.
verdverm 2 days ago||||
If you think it's common to have "conversations" with "personal assistants"

You might be in an echo chamber

mrguyorama 1 day ago|||
Having an important phone call while driving is also pretty dangerous.

Speeding and drunk driving are also pretty common things to do despite being dangerous.

Pay attention behind the wheel.

JumpCrisscross 2 days ago||
> ten years from now, people will look back at 2024-2025 as the moment Apple had a clear shot at owning the agent layer and chose not to take it

Why is Apple's hardware being in demand for a use that undermines its non-Chinese competition a sign of missing the ball versus validation for waiting and seeing?

tzury 2 days ago||
The notion that if it is good then the big-ones should have done it is the complete opposite of innovation, startups and entrepreneurial culture.

Reality is the exact opposite. Young, innovative, rebellions, often hyper motivated folks are sprinting from idea to implementation, while executives are “told by a few colleagues” that something new, “the future-of foo” is raising up.

If you use openclaw then that’s fantastic. If you have an idea how to improve it, well it is an open source, so go ahead, submit a pull request.

Telling Apple you should do what I am probably too lazy to do, is kind of entitlement blogging that I have nearly zero respect for.

Apparently it’s easier to give unsolicited advice to public companies than building. Ask the interns at EY and McKinsey.

rbbydotdev 2 days ago|
> is kind of entitlement blogging that I have nearly zero respect for.

Maybe the author left out something very real. Apple is a walled-garden monopoly with a locked-down ecosystem and even devices. They are also not alone in this. As far as innovation goes, these companies stifle innovation. Demanding more from these companies is not entitlement.

whurley23 23 hours ago||
The good part about OpenClaw: once you wire it up to connect to your important information it can do a lot of cool things. The bad part about OpenClaw: in order for it to do cool things you have to worry it up to your important information. Therein lies the challenge, to make it useful it needs to be connected, but being connected means that there is now a single point of failure or compromise. And unless you're extremely sophisticated, you are the mercy of the provider to guarantee that nothing bad happens. OpenClaw does not do this. In fact, I would say they do the very opposite of it, they declaim any responsibility or attempt to make it secure. Leaking API keys? Check. Allowing malicious plugins? Check. Being insecure by default? Check and check.

I'm no Apple fan, but they aren't in the business of foisting pleasantly packaged footguns on their customers.

Sharlin 2 days ago||
Apparently APIs are now a brittle way for software to use other software and interpreting and manipulating human GUIs with emulated mouse clicks and keypresses is a much better and perfectly reasonable way to do it. We’re truly living in a bizarro timeline.
ajcp 2 days ago|
As someone who has spent a good portion of my career in the RPA/intelligent automation field this take was a spit-coffee-close-laptop moment.
joeyguerra 2 days ago||
Just to add more credence to this thesis. Here’s the knowledge navigator. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0

It’s a 1987 ad like video showing a professor interacting with what looks like the Dynabook as an essentially AI personal assistant. Apple had this vision a long time ago. I guess they just lost the path somewhere along the way.

marstall 1 day ago|
holy crap, that's amazing. i struggle to get my head around the agent hype - but i guess this video helps a little. I have Agent FOMO, I guess.
joeyguerra 1 day ago||
I think it's a more about the cool factor than it is the value creation. I just don't get so many emails that I need something else to summarize them for me and plan my day.
chadash 1 day ago||
The problem is that OpenClaw is kind of like a self driving car that works 90% of the time. As we have seen, that last 10% (and billions of dollars) is the difference between Waymo today and prototypes 10 years ago.

Being Apple is just a structural disadvantage. Everyone knows that open claw is not secure, and it’s not like I blame the solo developer. He is just trying to get a new tool to market. But imagine that this got deployed by Apple and now all of your friends, parents and grandparents have it and implicitly trust it because Apple released it. Having it occasionally drain some bank accounts isn’t going to cut it.

This is not to say Apple isn’t behind. But OpenClaw is doing stuff that even the AI labs aren’t comfortable touching yet.

andix 2 days ago|
The main issue why we don't see AI agents in products: PROMPT INJECTIONS

Even with the most advanced LLMs and even sandboxing there is always the risk of prompt injections and data extraction.

Even if the AI can't directly upload data to the internet, or delete local data, there are always some ways to leak data. For example by crafting an email with the relevant text in white or invisible somewhere. The user clicks "ok send" from what they see, but still some data is leaked.

Apple intelligence is based on a local model on the device, which is much more susceptible for prompt injections.

bertili 2 days ago|
Surely this is the elephant in the room, but the point here is that Apple as control over its ecosystem, so it may be able to sandbox and make entitlements and transparency good enough, in the apps that the bot can access.
andix 2 days ago||
Like I said: sandboxing doesn't solve the problem.

As long as the agent creates more than just text, it can leak data. If it can access the internet in any manner, it can leak data.

The models are extremely creative and good at figuring out stuff, even circumventing safety measures that are not fully air tight. Most of the time they catch the deception, but in some very well crafted exploits they don't.

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