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Posted by i7l 2 days ago

Child prodigies rarely become elite performers(www.economist.com)
https://archive.md/dhAJl
141 points | 150 commentspage 3
b00ty4breakfast 2 days ago|
I always think of the Little League World Series when I read about stuff like this; these kids are often peaking early and so rarely make it to the highest levels as an adult. This is either because they quit advancing at the same rate or they've destroyed their bodies before they get to high school.

I think there's been like a handful LLWS winners who have done anything in the MLB and even fewer who have reached the top of pros.

Paracompact 2 days ago||
> I think there's been like a handful LLWS winners who have done anything in the MLB and even fewer who have reached the top of pros.

If the LLWS winners are a sample of N kids, then your statement is even more true for any random sample of N kids. Which is to say, LLWS may give you a big advantage, but not the truly massive advantage that would be required to make you a shoe-in.

iwontberude 2 days ago||
It’s also the case that the LLWS kids aren’t elite prospects because it’s a geographic lottery of affiliated leagues. Its more about keeping people watching ESPN5 than actual talent scouting.
daymanstep 1 day ago||
In the past 50 years, not a single chess world champion started playing chess after the age of 10.

I suspect the article is playing some games with statistics, and in any case I hope people don't come away from this article with the idea that "you can become a chess world champion even if you never touched chess as a child!"

alkyon 2 days ago||
For the super-prodigy category, someone like Mozart or Chopin, who could compose symphonies or polonaises at the age of 8, it's almost certain to maintain their elite status in adulthood (as opposed to someone who just plays the piano well or skipped a class or two in elementary school).
general1465 2 days ago||
That has very simple answer - they are not used on persistent work since childhood, everything comes easy when they are young and smarter than everyone else. When things will start getting harder, lack of discipline and lack of coping mechanism for ventilation of mental stress will catch up with them.
jstummbillig 2 days ago||
Maybe this can be explained by drift in what it means to be a "superstar" at different stages in life. In the beginning it's maybe mostly about the skill, later things get more complicated (media, money, negotiations etc) and what made the prodigy becomes relatively less important.
vladmk 2 days ago||
I’ll do you one better - elite performers rarely become child prodigies
PunchyHamster 2 days ago||
Isn't it just plainly that the "top" doesn't have enough space, even if every single one of them would be exceptional ?
energy123 2 days ago||
"Child prodigies are more likely to become elite performers" is an equally accurate and less misleading title.
shermantanktop 2 days ago||
Equally imprecise.

“Child prodigies are more likely to become elite performers than they are to become non-elite performers”

Vs

“Child prodigies are more likely than non-child prodigies to become elite performers"

Which is it?

owenpalmer 2 days ago||
Neither. That's what reading the article is for.
shermantanktop 2 days ago||
My comment was on the attempted retitling of the article. Agree that neither represent the actual article.
raincole 2 days ago||
far more likely
duxup 1 day ago||
10% seems like an incredibly high rate when it comes to becoming elite at something.
zephen 2 days ago|
The article is a paradigmatic example of innumeracy.

10% of prodigies becomes 10% of elite, whereas (whoknows)% of (general_population - prodigies) becomes 90% of elite.

How big is elite? How big is prodigies?

Well, for a start, I guess we can assume that size of elite == size of prodigies, because 10% == 10%.

But what is that size compared to general population?

If it's 1%, then 99% of muggles compete for slots in 0.9% of the population, so, hey, a prodigy is 11 times more likely to become an elite than a muggle.

If it's 0.1%, then a prodigy is 111 times more likely to become an elite than a muggle.

If it's 10% -- well, that's kind of stretching the definition of both prodigy and elite, isn't it?

tl;dr -- article is crap; research probably is, as well.

guillaumec 2 days ago|
At least for chess the article mentions that they considered the top 10 players in children and senior categories. This would indicate that prodigy chess players are millions of time more likely to become elite compared to the general population.
zephen 1 day ago||
Exactly. If their metric implies that 1 of the top 10 prodigy chess players became 1 of the top 10 adult chess players, and that holds down the line, then a prodigy has a 1 in 10 chance of becoming a top player, but a muggle has a 1 in 889 million chance.

To be a top child player, you need talent, recognition of that talent, and investment of time and energy.

So, who's to say that the time and involvement didn't make them better as adults than they would have been?

ISTM that if you groom 10 children and even one of them outperforms a billion other potential players, you've done well, even if they had some latent talent to start with.

They claim to "prove" that catering to young talent is counterproductive, but this certainly doesn't prove it.

And part of their "proof" is that generalist sportsmen in youth do better as adults than specialist sportsmen in youth. This is beyond stupid -- to be a generalist youth sportsman typically means that the parents have invested significantly more time, energy, and money, and it's pretty obvious that effort in related fields usually pays off well, and most sports don't run all year, and it's useful in physical endeavors to make your body move in different ways.

It is trivially accurate for them to mention that the possibility of burnout is a real thing, but it is also risible to discount the positive benefits of sustained attention and effort.

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