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Posted by kshahkshah 1 day ago

CIA to Sunset the World Factbook(www.abc.net.au)
379 points | 258 commentspage 2
dariosalvi78 1 day ago|
in a world where "alternative facts" rule, this is just a natural conclusion
kleiba 1 day ago||
Obviously, facts do not play a big role in the current government's world view.
moolcool 1 day ago||
Like Ken Jennings said about this: "you have wonder if the problem was 'world,' 'facts,' or 'books'"
stronglikedan 1 day ago|||
Ironically, most people who think that also think the opposite of the previous administration.
FrustratedMonky 20 hours ago||
There is one rule of thumb to tell them apart.

If you happen across a random book burning, can you confidently assume which side they are voting for.

stinkbeetle 1 day ago||
Truly dark times when we can't even trust the CIA anymore.
toyg 1 day ago|||
This is a good joke, but it's also true that the whole charade of trying to look "institutional" and "fact-based" was a pretty decent way to go about pursuing the US agenda. "Hey we are the good guys, we show you real numbers" was a good line to push, and it could often show up the opposition as cranks and liars.

Nowadays, nobody even pretends to not be a liar, from any side. There is no debate that even attempts to look at the facts - it's vibes all the way down and fuck you if you don't agree, only money and guns matter. In the long run, this can't hold.

mangodrunk 15 hours ago|||
Your grievance is that we won’t have good cover to pursue our interests when they conflict with the sovereignty and security of others? You think it was good to lie and say that we’re the good guys while we inflict harm on others?
toyg 15 hours ago||
Looking like you are trying to pursue the general interest is how we all get things like international tribunals, supranational organizations where conflicts are discussed and sometimes resolved, coordination to raise health standards and address natural disasters, etc etc. If the price to pay for those activities is sneaking in the occasional spy, or being a bit overzealous when defending certain business interests, I think it's worth paying, yes.

That order was not perfect, but the alternative is going back to the naked power struggles of the XIX century, which ended in global carneficine - and the next time it will be so much worse.

mangodrunk 15 hours ago||
Thanks for clarifying your position. I do see that model as only temporarily possible but eventually reality catches up with the propaganda, the Iraq war being a somewhat recent example. Also, as a citizen the previous model is also essentially requiring the government to lie to us, so I don’t think that as good either, because who will be benefiting from these “good guy” adventures?
toyg 9 hours ago||
> eventually reality catches up with the propaganda

Actually, I don't think that's necessarily the case. Look at the Chagos deal: that's the new reality created by international organizations catching up with the naked power of the original occupation, and pushing it into a corner. Again, far from perfect outcome (why Mauritius, etc etc), but quite a step forward from brutal colonialism. Humanity wins some and loses some, but at least we're still in the game. If we just give up and accept that might makes right, we slide backwards into the jungle.

seanw444 1 day ago|||
> In the long run, this can't hold.

It's always held, management just changes. Money and power are two fundamental constants to human nature.

toyg 15 hours ago||
Sure, but assigning value to other things allows us to temper those brutal instincts. Otherwise we might as well live under military dictatorship.
khat 1 day ago||||
The CIA was formed in 1947 and the first known controversy was in 1953. And has a whole list of controversies since then. From giving citizens LSD, wiretapping citizens, to supporting Central American cocaine distribution. And this is where you draw the line on trustworthiness? Lol
MisterTea 1 day ago|||
That was a joke that violently wooshed over your head. You might need to see a doctor to check for whiplash.
ceejayoz 1 day ago||||
You and sarcasm should get better acquainted.
butlike 1 day ago||||
CIA-distributed LSD would be a weird trip
vjvjvjvjghv 1 day ago||
I would love to get some of that.
DetroitThrow 1 day ago|||
We have to draw the line somewhere
mannanj 1 day ago|||
Then don't watch "Everything is a Rich Man's Trick" that was what showed me a bit of the under dealings of how that organization was structured and created.

Spoiler: The CIA was formed around rich people's interests and continue to represent them, not in fact, the American people. Harsh reality but helpful to know.

elif 1 day ago||
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted.”

George Orwell (1984)

password4321 1 day ago||
3rd discussion, simultaneously on the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46899808
pablowegw 1 day ago||
Thankfully, ATM 'The CIA World Factbook 2024-2025' and earlier versions available on Annas-Archive.
aw124 1 day ago||
It's time to sunset the CIA. “I will splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds.”
pron 1 day ago||
My theory of the current US administration and its support is one of ideological stupidity. Ideological stupidity wishes to see the world as simple. If "classical fascism" made a promise of order in a tumultuous world, the new right makes a promise of simplicity: the world is not as complicated as the experts say. To maintain simplicity, any serious scholarship and study, which invariably points to complexity, is to be expunged.
afavour 1 day ago||
Feels very short sighted, the Factbook is a great example of low cost soft power.
some_random 1 day ago||
Are we remembering the same Factbook? It had summary statistics for every country and some brief blurbs about their history, climate, economy, etc. Strictly speaking yeah it generated some legitimacy to publish a resource like this and I find it hard to believe the CIA can't scrape a few quarters together to keep it running, but most of it's value is sentimental.
Retric 1 day ago|||
Soft power includes positive perception. Every time someone learns that GPS is completely paid for by the American government and then freely available to the rest of the world, that shapes perception.

The Facebook being quoted by so many school kids worldwide was a cheap softening of how the world perceived the CIA and America. Now how valuable that is isn’t clear, but when something is that cheap it doesn’t take much to be a net gain.

gspetr 1 day ago|||
Today's kids would never see it past the layer of AI. To them AI is the top level abstraction and that's it.
CGMthrowaway 1 day ago|||
We have Hollywood and spy movies/series now.
Retric 1 day ago||
Hollywood and spy movies/series predate the web.

What makes the CIA Factbook useful is it reframes learning about other countries.

0sdi 1 day ago||
Americans famously have near-zero knowledge of other countries. Nothing valuable was lost in this aspect. You need something new.
CGMthrowaway 1 day ago|||
I had something similar to this talking globe[1] when I was a kid and it was amazing for raising my geopolitical awareness. You tap on a country with the pen and it tells you the name and some facts about it. Even if I hadn't learned anything, I had fun pressing "Azerbaijan" over and over because 10-year-old me thought it was a funny spelling and pronunciation.

[1]https://www.walmart.com/ip/World-Globe-for-Kids-Interactive-...

Retric 1 day ago|||
You completely misunderstood what everyone was talking about. The point is to make people in other countries do what we want them to do.

American diplomacy, foreign policy, spying, soft, and hard power etc is obviously primarily targeting non Americans here.

Thus like most things the CIA does this is targeting foreigners or foreign influence, though of course direct impact on Americans is a nice bonus. We don’t want young Americans looking up facts on a Chinese or Russian website.

JasonADrury 1 day ago||||
You might be underestimating the reach, you've got schoolchildren around the world using it as it's usually the most convenient source you're allowed to cite for this data
Yizahi 1 day ago||||
As an anecdote example, I've never ever accessed said Factbook, but I've heard about it enough times to remember that such thing exists and that USA govt. is collecting a relatively objective fact list. So yeah, it was a tiny bit of soft power of sorts. It showed that USA cares about outside world, in some way at least.

PS: and I live in Eastern Europe, far far away from the USA.

afavour 1 day ago|||
I grew up outside the US. I have a distinct memory of using the Factbook for homework assignments and being told it is a reliable source of information. That shapes people's perceptions of the US and the CIA from a young age.
zackmorris 1 day ago|||
Or maybe a conscious decision, as neoconservative Robert Kagan writes:

"President Trump has managed in just one year to destroy the American order that was and has weakened America's ability to protect its interests in the world that will be. Americans thought defending the liberal world order was too expensive. Wait until they start paying for what comes next,"

https://www.npr.org/2026/02/04/nx-s1-5699388/is-the-u-s-head...

chuckadams 1 day ago||
> Wait until they start paying for what comes next

They'll just blame liberals and double down on the authoritarianism as they've always done.

TiredOfLife 1 day ago|||
One of Trump administration's main goal is to destroy US soft power
jfyi 1 day ago||
I agree, well mostly.

The administration is dispensing with the institutions of soft power. I don't think it's the main goal so much as a consequence of their worldview. Soft power is essentially worthless to people who have no interest in maintaining a facade of international cooperation.

PlatoIsADisease 1 day ago|||
I remember this from literally 20 years ago.

Maybe the traffic made it not worth the cost?

And 'soft power'? Like lying about stats and using it for propaganda? Otherwise its just objective and someone else can do the work. For some reason I never attributed it to the US or CIA.

emsign 1 day ago|||
Under the current administration it wouldn't surprise me if they decided in their last budget cutting meeting to indiscriminately erase everything with the wildcard "fact" in the project's name.
isleyaardvark 1 day ago|||
Like how they deny visas to fact checkers.
haritha-j 1 day ago||||
I don't know if you jest but thats exactly what they did with many other words. What a timeline.
vaylian 1 day ago|||
Reminds me of the forbidden word lists that they created at the beginning of the second Trump term: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/07/us/trump-fede...
woodruffw 1 day ago||||
“Soft power” refers usually to credibility. The point of the Factbook is to be a credible public resource for an entity that would otherwise not have much.
dragonwriter 1 day ago|||
Credibility is not what soft power means, though they are related. Power is the ability to get other people to act in your interest. Hard power is when that is done through immediate, direct economic or military coercion. Soft power is everything else.
PlatoIsADisease 1 day ago|||
In International Relations, my #1 or #2 hobby, credibility does not refer to soft power. (my number 1 hobby is philosophy)
jfyi 1 day ago||
Credibility is the core currency of soft power, whether one views its ultimate goal as manufacturing consent or fostering genuine cultural attraction. Without that perceived reliability, the indicator "soft" loses it's meaning.
PlatoIsADisease 1 day ago||
>Credibility is the core currency of soft power, whether one views its ultimate goal as manufacturing consent or fostering genuine cultural attraction.

Not sure its worth dissecting this, but there is a lot of grey area in your claim of the meaning of Credibility. (Credibility and cultural attraction? Pretty sure these have little correlation. Dictators can make creditable threats.) Further, its a debatable claim that there is a 'core currency' of soft power.

As a contextualist, I am not going to die on this hill for your personal meaning of Credibility. But I can attest that your conviction in your claim is stronger than any International Relations Realist practitioner would make.

jfyi 1 day ago||
It's not that complex, good faith builds good will.

It's a shame we can't have nice things.

potatototoo99 1 day ago|||
You can make propaganda without lying, by choosing what metrics you value over others for example, by adding them or omitting them or implying whether a stat increasing is positive or negative.
wongarsu 1 day ago|||
Also choosing which methodology is the "right" one to measure a specific number.

There are lots of ways to measure ethnic groups, the size of the capital or the unemployment rate. If you publish the numbers you get to choose which one suits you best, you just have to be globally consistent

PlatoIsADisease 1 day ago|||
Interesting. I read about this. "Concealment and spinning" are two ways to not lie.
adammarples 1 day ago||
What is this soft power and what can the US do with it?
kergonath 1 day ago|||
Having friends means that you can build bases where if you ask nicely, rather than having to invade. It prevents those friends from undermining you in a lot of cases. It makes them help you when you need, e.g. to get your hands on someone plotting attacks against you. It makes them more likely to trade with you under advantageous terms. I am sure you could think about at least a dozen other cases in a couple of minutes.

Soft power is spending pennies to convince other countries to do your dirty work.

vdqtp3 1 day ago||
> build bases where if you ask nicely, rather than having to invade

How much of that actually came from soft power rather than "hard power", like USA actions in WW2?

cfmcdonald 1 day ago|||
I think it's instructive to compare the U.S. and Soviet stances in Europe after WW2. To maintain a military presence in Eastern Europe, the Soviets had to rely on repression, coercion, and occupation. This was expensive and fragile and eventually fell apart. The U.S. was openly welcomed into Germany and other countries in Western Europe. This was the value of "soft power."
kergonath 1 day ago|||
Among the countries that host US bases, how many had to accept it under the threat of force, invasion, or occupation? I would guess Japan and Germany (initially). Look at the map here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Foreign_bases_2.png . Brute force was not a facto in the vast majority of them.
LPisGood 1 day ago||||
Shape the world to benefit the US - having US dollar be strong primarily.
afavour 1 day ago||||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power
BLKNSLVR 1 day ago||||
I believe Trump has asked that exact question. But also asked how much it costs and whether it can be privatized.
jonstewart 1 day ago||||
Make the dollar the global currency and reap the benefits of facilitating gentle commerce?
biofox 1 day ago|||
Did you forget the /s?

Some people mentioned the dollar as the global reserve currency, but there's also the use of English as the global lingua franca, the US being the largest global destination for talent and investment, and countries (previous) willingness to make sacrifices or deal with the US on less-than-perfect terms out of a sense of shared culture.

mikemarsh 1 day ago||
Some people really do think of soft power, propaganda, shady covert operations, etc. as something "the other guys" do (China! KGB-Putin!), but assume the US is somehow above all that.

Basically a neoconservative-esque sentimental view of the USA as "the good guys" on "the global stage" (although many would rightly recoil at the comparison to neocons).

low_common 1 day ago||
No link to the World Factbook in the article, sloppy journalism.
sharkjacobs 1 day ago|
No, the World Factbook has been totally taken down. If you try to go to a page, e.g. the entry for Canada[1] it redirects to the statement[2] which the article does cite. That's all that's left online of it, there's nothing else to link to

    [1] https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/canada/
    [2] https://www.cia.gov/stories/story/spotlighting-the-world-factbook-as-we-bid-a-fond-farewell/
systems_glitch 1 day ago|
End of an era. We used to get it on CD in school.
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