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Posted by felineflock 1 day ago

Fined $48k for using a jammer to keep commuters from using phones while driving(transition.fcc.gov)
56 points | 92 comments
Someone1234 1 day ago|
The police who stopped him had their radios jammed during the interaction; so I'm not particularly sympathetic to the title's artificial framing:

> Fined $48k for using a jammer to keep commuters from using phones while driving

The person jammed 911, both on and off the freeway every single work-day for months. They also jammed legal usage of mobile devices on the freeway and in the surrounding area. They were rightfully fined, and if it discourages others then so much the better.

rustyhancock 1 day ago||
911, emergency alerts, cloud linked epilepsy and diabetes monitors.

He got off lightly for 48k imo.

ortusdux 1 day ago||
On-star and similar automatic incident reporting. Presumably he drove past first responders at the scene of an accident and jammed their communication. Construction zone flaggers typically use radios to coordinate traffic.

I agree, 48k is light.

rich_sasha 1 day ago|||
And there's nothing wrong with passengers using phones. In fact often most people in the car are not the driver...
kmoser 1 day ago|||
I have no sympathy for the guilty party, but the title is correctly indicating his intentions, despite the larger and manifold effects he had.
thatguy0900 1 day ago||
Not to mention I'm not even sure how that's supposed to be safer? The distracted drivers are now more distracted trying to figure out why their isn't working and people who weren't distracted listining to Spotify are now looking at their phones actively as well. Dude was literally making a bubble of people messing with their phones around him while he drives
jstanley 1 day ago||
Maybe $48k is a bit much, but this is so obviously a crazy thing to do.

Passengers are allowed to use their phones and your jammer won't discriminate. People can take hands-free calls and your jammer won't discriminate. Pedestrians can use their phones and your jammer won't discriminate. People who have broken down might want to call the AA. And so on.

What was this person thinking?

petcat 1 day ago||
$48k is cheap. He's lucky he didn't get jail time especially for intentionally disrupting emergency communications like 911 service.
jstanley 1 day ago|||
I don't know if it's fair to say he intentionally disrupted emergency communications.

He unintentionally disrupted emergency communications in the course of intentionally disrupting ordinary people's communications.

I doubt he ever thought "I've got a good idea, I'll disrupt emergency communications".

He did a thing, on purpose, that had a side-effect of disrupting emergency communications. I don't know whether you'd say that qualifies as "intentional".

If it qualifies as intentional, are we saying that all possible unintended consequences are de facto intentions? Or only in this case?

phil21 1 day ago|||
It’s the legal definition of intentional. If you intentionally perform an act that reasonably can foresee an outcome, then it is by definition intentional.

If you rob a liquor store while armed and accidentally discharge your weapon - it’s an intentional murder. Doesn’t matter if you went in there thinking the gun was unloaded or if you told your friend in writing before you went in that you had no intention of hurting anyone.

Unintentional would be he had a jammer for hobbyist use and it somehow turned on by itself while it was being transported in his backpack. If he pressed the power button in an intentional manner and reasonably knew the outcome of what a jammer does it is intentional behavior.

He may not have had the explicit goal of disrupting emergency communication, but he absolutely knew he was doing so and intentionally performed the act anyways.

ranger_danger 1 day ago|||
> He may not have had the explicit goal of disrupting emergency communication, but he absolutely knew he was doing so

How could you prove that though? They could absolutely claim ignorance and be right, they might not have known... but it's still illegal and they'll still be punished. As the saying goes... "ignorance of the law is no excuse."

What I'd really like to know though, is the history of how/why it became that way.

Who got to decide that everyone must be presumed to know all the laws at all times, and why?

How is it fair that we expect everyone to know all applicable laws?

I realize that claiming ignorance would just lead to widespread abuse, but at the same time I don't think it's fair because laws are massively complex and ever-changing... no single person can reasonably be expected to know it all.

phil21 1 day ago|||
You could claim ignorance that you had no idea what the box in your bag was, and thought it was a radiotherapy device that had health benefits or something. If you could then prove that you bought it from a website advertising it as such and had a true belief you had no idea it jammed communications in any manner then you’d have a case of an unintentional act.

Here the guy bought a jammer that has exactly one use - jamming communications. He then presumably brought it with him on purpose and intentionally hit the power button to turn it on.

It’s not really a borderline case like some things could be.

It’s roughly the same as shooting at someone you hate who happens to be in a crowd and hitting a bystander on accident. It’s still an intentional act and you would be guilty of intentional murder of some type if they died.

justin66 1 day ago||||
> How could you prove that though?

This is uncomplicated. You ask him the question and he answers. The judge or jury decides whether he is telling the truth.

chaostheory 1 day ago||||
> How could you prove that though?

In the FCC link:

“Mr. Humphreys admitted to the agents that he purchased, owned, and used the device to block cell phone communications of nearby drivers for 16 to 24 months.”

Even if he claimed ignorance, it’s not a good defense when you’ve been doing this for close to two years

IMTDb 1 day ago||||
He intentionally disrupted all communications including, but not limited to, emergency ones. In process he tried to unilaterally control a public resource based on his own authoritarian view of what is "good" vs "bad". He is lucky he is not in jail.
bdcravens 1 day ago||||
Hence the low fine and the lack of a jail sentence.

And yes, penalty for unintended consequences are a thing. Involuntary manslaughter, property damage caused by DWI, etc.

roywiggins 1 day ago||||
at a certain point indifference is depraved enough to be indistinguishable from malice. there's entire bodies of law about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder

knome 1 day ago||||
you're responsible for understanding the ramifications of things you do if a reasonable person should recognize those ramifications.

any reasonable person would have known they were interrupting emergency services. not a lawyer, but surely something akin to gross negligence would apply?

jstanley 1 day ago||
Certainly it was negligent.
registeredcorn 1 day ago|||
Maybe saying something like this would make things clearer:

> His directed intention was to disrupt communication. He did not explicitly target EMS calls, however, his actions impacted EMS communications because of his intentions to disrupt communications.

Example:

If I poison the water for a city, my directed intention may be, "to lower pollution in the region". I am not specifically targeting children, however, a consequence of my intentions of poisoning the water will cause the death of children.

This fellow intentionally took a disruptive action. The consequences of those directed disruptions may have caused (had caused?) catastrophic consequences - that is part of why what he did was illegal. In breaking that law, he became culpable for the outcome for all of the harm caused, targeted or otherwise. Ultimately, it was an intention which presupposed, "My personal opinion supersedes all others." It's an self-centered obscenity without regard to others.

MisterTea 1 day ago|||
> What was this person thinking?

Driving to work yesterday I was almost side swiped on the parkway by a driver who was weaving and swerving because he was staring down at his phone as if he was the only person driving on the road at 45 MPH.

What was this person thinking?

So yeah, I don't agree with indiscriminately jamming everyone's phone but I get it. Driving in some areas is like navigating a lord of the flies playground.

jstanley 1 day ago||
A person driving along looking at their phone instead of the road is doing a stupid thing too but I don't think that in any way absolves doing a stupid thing in response.
MisterTea 1 day ago|||
Both are stupid but one has a much higher chance of causing injury or death. I see this all the time including other forms of reckless driving which has exploded since CVOID. It has to stop but no one seems to want to do anything.
beAbU 1 day ago|||
Two wrongs don't make a right, bruv.
knome 1 day ago|||
and they were doing that indiscriminate jamming as they drove around for two years.

if op is trying to cast someone making up rules in their head and going vigilante to enforce it on everyone else out of some sense of self-righteous indignation as some sort of heroic action the government is unfairly attacking, I doubt they're going to find many friendly to their perspective.

GaryBluto 1 day ago|||
> What was this person thinking?

Indignant, short-sighted self-righteousness; and from the looks of it several other people here are feeling the same.

squeefers 1 day ago||
[flagged]
eleventyseven 1 day ago|||
$48k is too little. This would have disrupted 911 emergency calls and first responders on the highway. That's jail time.
dmix 1 day ago||
FTC is a civil law enforcement agency, not a criminal one
chuckadams 1 day ago||
The *FCC* is a regulatory agency, and many regulations have criminal penalties for violating them. The SEC for example has sent many people to prison. Fines can also be criminal penalties, not just civil.
eleventyseven 1 day ago|||
It is such a techie mindset to see a social problem with a technology and craft an even cruder technological solution to that problem, without thinking of the second order effects. As drivers on cell phones get jammed, they will be even more distracted trying to redial and figure out what is going on. This man made the roads less safe, not more.
hackeraccount 1 day ago|||
The charitable explanation is probably that they weren't thinking much. That they had a skill set to allow them to do this quickly and easily.

If I had the idea to do this I'd have to think about and work on it so long that they obvious reasons why it's not such a great idea would probably occur to me.

Either that or when an idea occurs to me I'm never so hyperfocused on it that I won't take a step back and stop asking myself if I can but if I should at some point early in the process.

trentnix 1 day ago|||
> What was this person thinking?

He was thinking he wasn't going to get caught.

JKCalhoun 1 day ago|||
I guess I don't see the big deal. Am I old (or am I an anarchist)?

I guess I drove for close to three decades before cell phones and I seemed to do fine without them. We listened to the radio. So, no, I suppose it doesn't seem crazy to me.

Clearly it would be ideal if it could discriminate—people distracted by their phones—but of course it cannot.

latexr 1 day ago|||
And in those days you had affordances which no longer exist, such as AA Call Boxes on the side of the road. If you get into an accident today, you are expected to have a phone to call for help. That can literally be the difference between life or death, jamming communications can cause people to die.
kyralis 1 day ago||||
If you had a device that indiscriminately shut down cars around you, because people used to do fine with their horse and buggy, would that be okay?

He's imposing upon a common in a way that is taking that from everyone else - and, as noted, in a way that's potentially dangerous.

JKCalhoun 1 day ago|||
Given the popularity of r/fuckcars (as an example) it might be your straw-man argument is not such a reach, ha ha.
Thrymr 1 day ago||||
This isn't about whether people should be using cell phones on the road, this is about whether one person can arbitrarily interfere with radio spectrum used for communications in licensed frequencies by thousands of people. Obviously, by federal law, they cannot.
ranger_danger 1 day ago|||
There are many other important or essential services that get disrupted by the jammer, like emergency services/911, police, private business communications, general internet data for everyone, etc. There's a very good reason this is illegal and it has nothing to do with keeping people off their phones in their cars.
Nextgrid 1 day ago||
It is much, way too much. I wouldn’t mind this penalty if other obnoxious behaviour is equally investigated and punished, but I can think of plenty of way more obnoxious things to do that would never trigger even a reaction from law enforcement.

The real crime here, as usual, is that he inconvenienced a corporation. Had someone been obnoxiously interfering (in general - not radio-specific) with an individual or small business nothing will happen.

eleventyseven 1 day ago|||
No, he inconvenienced every day potentially thousands of consumers of a company's service, which includes first responders.

And think about the direct effect. Yes driving using a cell phone is dangerous. But do you really think cell phone addicted drivers will be MORE attentive when their signal starts to go in and out depending on their proximity to this driver? They will just give up? No, they will be more frustrated, looking at their phones more to see what is wrong, trying to redial, becoming even more of a risk to themselves and others.

This man made the roads less safe. Full stop.

justin66 1 day ago|||
Obnoxiousness isn’t the decisive factor in the creation and application of laws that you seem to think it is.
insuranceguru 1 day ago||
It's interesting that he did this to stop people from using phones while driving, but he ended up creating a bigger public safety hazard by jamming emergency comms. From a liability perspective if that jammer had blocked a 911 call during a nearby accident his exposure would have been far higher than just the $48k FCC fine. Federal preemption on signal jamming is one of the few areas where the hammer drops consistently hard.
butvacuum 1 day ago|
it drops hard enough that, allegedly, aliexpress won't sell jammers anymore. Well, at least not as a device's express purpose.
jwsteigerwalt 1 day ago||
This is 12 years old…

He was incredibly lucky. Assuming there was no other criminal penalties, he screwed up royally and gets off with a fine he will be able to pay and a life that was not destroyed by the federal government.

DerekL 1 day ago|
Good point. The title needs “(2014)”.
tahoemph999 1 day ago||
We have standards, called laws, for how we use shared resources. The fine is about $60/day. Feels low to me to be honest. The actions described could have easily contributed to death via disruption of emergency services.
bn-usd-mistake 1 day ago||
Wouldn't issues with cellphone network make drivers even more likely to get distracted from the road?

I'm talking about in practice, not the theoretic world where no driver ever uses their phone.

eschulz 1 day ago||
Absolutely. If I'm driving and using my cellphone (in a legal or illegal manner), and the network is suddenly screwed up, I'll probably be more distracted since I'm trying to solve the "problem" with my phone in addition to driving.
b112 1 day ago||
Using a phone when driving is completely legal, as long as it is hands free. Most modern cars have bluetooth for that.

And I agree, someone could become distracted. For example, some cars don't show signal strength on the dash, one might pull a phone out of pocket to investigate.

loeg 1 day ago||
> Using a phone when driving is completely legal, as long as it is hands free.

This is not universally true, and as a matter of policy, it should not be true -- making phone calls while driving is distracting, whether you are holding the phone in your hands or not.

b112 1 day ago||
Nice opinion. Passengers are distractions too.

Malarkey about how talking to someone on the phone, vs in person is a different level of distraction is silly, too. As long as your eyes are on the road, as long as it's hands free, it's fine.

gwbas1c 20 hours ago||
A day after reading this, I keep thinking about this article.

I wonder if Humphreys had rigged up something that faded out the interference, and then used it when pulled over, if he could have "played dumb" enough to not get his vehicle searched? IE, if the interference "faded out" instead of abruptly turning off, would the FCC agents have suspected they got the wrong vehicle?

Likewise, if Humphreys had hidden the interference device well enough, such as inside the dashboard, could it have remained undiscovered during a search?

Or, did the FCC agents collect evidence in such a way that they would know to take the car apart?

---

One trend that I've seen in cases against cell phone jammers is that the criminals often appear unsavvy; IE, they don't realize what they're doing is a crime, so they don't take precautions in case they're caught. (But that doesn't excuse their behavior.)

jabroni_salad 1 day ago||
> Adopted: April 23, 2014 Released: April 29, 2014

Well, here's another fun one I guess, where a trucker wanted to disrupt his log keeper but ended up interfering with an airport: https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2013/FCC-13-106A1.html

jacquesm 1 day ago||
He got off way too light.

In a way it doesn't surprise me one bit. In a world in which everybody is told they're important you get people who actually believe that they are more important than others to a degree they start seeing them as NPCs. And you don't actually care about NPCs getting inconvenienced or even killed as long as you are marginally safer yourself. I've seen someone wearing a t-shirt that said 'I'm a big deal'. I kid you not.

beardyw 1 day ago|
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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