All 7 books come to ~1.75M tokens, so they don't quite fit yet. (At this rate of progress, mid-April should do it ) For now you can fit the first 4 books (~733K tokens).
Results: Opus 4.6 found 49 out of 50 officially documented spells across those 4 books. The only miss was "Slugulus Eructo" (a vomiting spell).
Freaking impressive!
Otherwise, LLMs have most of the books memorised anyway: https://arstechnica.com/features/2025/06/study-metas-llama-3...
By replacing the names with something unique, you'll get much more certainty.
So it might be there, by predcondiditioning latent space to the area of harry potter world, you make it so much more probable that the full spell list is regurgitated from online resources that were also read, while asking naive might get it sometimes, and sometimes not.
the books act like a hypnotic trigger, and may not represent a generalized skill. Hence why replacing with random words would help clarify. if you still get the origional spells, regurgitation confirmed, if it finds the spells, it could be doing what we think. An even better test would be to replace all spell references AND jumble chapters around. This way it cant even "know" where to "look" for the spell names from training.
Shoot, I'd even go so far as to write a script that takes in a bunch of text, reorganizes sentences, and outputs them in a random order with the secrets. Kind of like a "Where's Waldo?", but for text
Just a few casual thoughts.
I'm actually thinking about coming up with some interesting coding exercises that I can run across all models. I know we already have benchmarks, however some of the recent work I've done has really shown huge weak points in every model I've run them on.
If I use Opus 4.6 with Extended Thinking (Web Search disabled, no books attached), it answers with 130 spells.
Basically they managed with some tricks make 99% word for word - tricks were needed to bypass security measures that are there in place for exactly reason to stop people to retrieve training material.
> Borges's "review" describes Menard's efforts to go beyond a mere "translation" of Don Quixote by immersing himself so thoroughly in the work as to be able to actually "re-create" it, line for line, in the original 17th-century Spanish. Thus, Pierre Menard is often used to raise questions and discussion about the nature of authorship, appropriation, and interpretation.
Grok and Deepmind IIRC didn’t require tricks.
I shut it down a while ago because the number of bots overtake traffic. The site had quite a bit of human traffic (enough to bring in a few hundred bucks a month in ad revenue, and a few hundred more in subscription revenue), however, the AI scrapers really started ramping up and the only way I could realistically continue would be to pay a lot more for hosting/infrastructure.
I had put a ton of time into building out content...thousands of hours, only to have scrapers ignore robots, bypass cloudflare (they didn't have any AI products at the time), and overwhelm my measly infrastructure.
Even now, with the domain pointed at NOTHING, it gets almost 100,000 hits a month. There is NO SERVER on the other end. It is a dead link. The stats come from Cloudflare, where the domain name is hosted.
I'm curious if there are any lawyers who'd be willing to take someone like me on contingency for a large copyright lawsuit.
Nothing.
You can be sure that this was already known in the training data of PDFs, books and websites that Anthropic scraped to train Claude on; hence 'documented'. This is why tests like what the OP just did is meaningless.
Such "benchmarks" are performative to VCs and they do not ask why isn't the research and testing itself done independently but is almost always done by their own in-house researchers.
How do you know? Each word is one token?
> The smug look on Malfoy’s face flickered.
> “No one asked your opinion, you filthy little Mudblood,” he spat.
> Harry knew at once that Malfoy had said something really bad because there was an instant uproar at his words. Flint had to dive in front of Malfoy to stop Fred and George jumping on him, Alicia shrieked, “How dare you!”, and Ron plunged his hand into his robes, pulled out his wand, yelling, “You’ll pay for that one, Malfoy!” and pointed it furiously under Flint’s arm at Malfoy’s face.
> A loud bang echoed around the stadium and a jet of green light shot out of the wrong end of Ron’s wand, hitting him in the stomach and sending him reeling backward onto the grass.
> “Ron! Ron! Are you all right?” squealed Hermione.
> Ron opened his mouth to speak, but no words came out. Instead he gave an almighty belch and several slugs dribbled out of his mouth onto his lap.
In support of that hypothesis, the Fandom site lists it as “mentioned” in Half-Blood Prince, but it says nothing else and I'm traveling and don't have a copy to check, so not sure.
> Ron nodded but did not speak. Harry was reminded forcibly of the time that Ron had accidentally put a slug-vomiting charm on himself. He looked just as pale and sweaty as he had done then, not to mention as reluctant to open his mouth.
There could be something with regional variants but I'm doubtful as the Fandom site uses LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 as the citation of the spell instead of a book.
Maybe the real LLM is the universe and we're figuring this out for someone on Slacker News a level up!
My standard test for that was "Who ends up with Bilbo's buttons?"
I guess they have to add more questions as these context windows get bigger.
(I'm from OpenAI.)
Accuracy can decreases at large context sizes. OpenAI's compaction handles this better than anyone else, but it's still an issue.
If you are seeing this kind of thing start a new chat and re-run the same query. You'll usually see an improvement.
The following are true:
- In our API, we don't change model weights or model behavior over time (e.g., by time of day, or weeks/months after release)
- Tiny caveats include: there is a bit of non-determinism in batched non-associative math that can vary by batch / hardware, bugs or API downtime can obviously change behavior, heavy load can slow down speeds, and this of course doesn't apply to the 'unpinned' models that are clearly supposed to change over time (e.g., xxx-latest). But we don't do any quantization or routing gimmicks that would change model weights.
- In ChatGPT and Codex CLI, model behavior can change over time (e.g., we might change a tool, update a system prompt, tweak default thinking time, run an A/B test, or ship other updates); we try to be transparent with our changelogs (listed below) but to be honest not every small change gets logged here. But even here we're not doing any gimmicks to cut quality by time of day or intentionally dumb down models after launch. Model behavior can change though, as can the product / prompt / harness.
ChatGPT release notes: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6825453-chatgpt-release-...
Codex changelog: https://developers.openai.com/codex/changelog/
Codex CLI commit history: https://github.com/openai/codex/commits/main/
I've had this perceived experience so many times, and while of course it's almost impossible to be objective about this, it just seem so in your face.
I don't discard being novelty plus getting used to it, plus psychological factors, do you have any takes on this?
Once the honeymoon wears off, the tool is the same, but you get less satisfaction from it.
Just a guess! Not trying to psychoanalyze anyone.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1qv77lq/chatgpt_low...
The intention was purely making the product experience better, based on common feedback from people (including myself) that wait times were too long. Cost was not a goal here.
If you still want the higher reliability of longer thinking times, that option is not gone. You can manually select Extended (or Heavy, if you're a Pro user). It's the same as at launch (though we did inadvertently drop it last month and restored it yesterday after Tibor and others pointed it out).
It's worth checking different versions of Claude Code, and updating your tools if you don't do it automatically. Also run the same prompts through VS Code, Cursor, Claude Code in terminal, etc. You can get very different model responses based on the system prompt, what context is passed via the harness, how the rules are loaded and all sorts of minor tweaks.
If you make raw API calls and see behavioural changes over time, that would be another concern.
PS - I appreciate you coming here and commenting!
However it's possible that consumers without a sufficiently tiered plan aren't getting optimal performance, or that the benchmark is overfit and the results won't generalize well to the real tasks you're trying to do.
I think a lot of people are concerned due to 1) significant variance in performance being reported by a large number of users, and 2) We have specific examples of OpenAI and other labs benchmaxxing in the recent past (https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMw_66c34055-740f-43a3-a63c-4b...).
It's tricky because there are so many subtle ways in which "the numbers are all real" could be technically true in some sense, yet still not reflect what a customer will experience (eg harnesses, etc). And any of those ways can benefit the cost structures of companies currently subsidizing models well below their actual costs with limited investor capital. All with billions of dollars in potential personal wealth at stake for company employees and dozens of hidden cost/performance levers at their disposal.
And it doesn't even require overt deception on anyone's part. For example, the teams doing benchmark testing of unreleased new models aren't the same people as the ops teams managing global deployment/load balancing at scale day-to-day. If there aren't significant ongoing resources devoted to specifically validating those two things remain in sync - they'll almost certainly drift apart. And it won't be anyone's job to even know it's happening until a meaningful number of important customers complain or sales start to fall. Of course, if an unplanned deviation causes costs to rise over budget, it's a high-priority bug to be addressed. But if the deviation goes the other way and costs are little lower than expected, no one's getting a late night incident alert. This isn't even a dig at OpenAI in particular, it's just the default state of how large orgs work.
Curious to see how things will be with 5.3 and 4.6
ChatGPT-5.2-Codex follows directions to ensure a task [bead](https://github.com/steveyegge/beads) is opened before starting a task and to keep it updated almost to a fault. Claude-Opus-4.5 with the exact same directions, forgets about it within a round or two. Similarly, I had a project that required very specific behaviour from a couple functions, it was documented in a few places including comments at the top and bottom of the function. Codex was very careful in ensuring the function worked as was documented. Claude decided it was easier to do the exact opposite, rewrote the function, the comments, and the documentation to saynit now did the opposite of what was previously there.
If I believed a LLM could be spiteful, I would've believed it on that second one. I certainly felt some after I realised what it had done. The comment literally said:
// Invariant regardless of the value of X, this function cannot return Y
// Returns Y if X is true[1]: https://github.com/Vibecodelicious/llm-conductor/blob/main/O...
They can both write fairly good idiomatic code but in my experience opus 4.5 is better at understanding overall project structure etc. without prompting. It just does things correctly first time more often than codex. I still don't trust it obviously but out of all LLMs it's the closest to actually starting to earn my trust
I definitely suspect all these models are being degraded during heavy loads.
We had access to the eval data (since we funded it), but we didn't train on the data or otherwise cheat. We didn't even look at the eval results until after the model had been trained and selected.
You always have to question these benchmarks, especially when the in-house researchers can potentially game them if they wanted to.
Which is why it must be independent.
[0] https://gizmodo.com/meta-cheated-on-ai-benchmarks-and-its-a-...
Seems like 4.6 is still all-around better?
swe bench pro public is newer, but its not live, so it will get slowly memorized as well. the private dataset is more interesting, as are the results there:
> Version 2.1.32:
• Claude Opus 4.6 is now available!
• Added research preview agent teams feature for multi-agent collaboration (token-intensive feature, requires setting
CLAUDE_CODE_EXPERIMENTAL_AGENT_TEAMS=1)
• Claude now automatically records and recalls memories as it works
• Added "Summarize from here" to the message selector, allowing partial conversation summarization.
• Skills defined in .claude/skills/ within additional directories (--add-dir) are now loaded automatically.
• Fixed @ file completion showing incorrect relative paths when running from a subdirectory
• Updated --resume to re-use --agent value specified in previous conversation by default.
• Fixed: Bash tool no longer throws "Bad substitution" errors when heredocs contain JavaScript template literals like ${index + 1}, which
previously interrupted tool execution
• Skill character budget now scales with context window (2% of context), so users with larger context windows can see more skill descriptions
without truncation
• Fixed Thai/Lao spacing vowels (สระ า, ำ) not rendering correctly in the input field
• VSCode: Fixed slash commands incorrectly being executed when pressing Enter with preceding text in the input field
• VSCode: Added spinner when loading past conversations listNeat: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/memory
I guess it's kind of like Google Antigravity's "Knowledge" artifacts?
It's very happy to throw a lot into the memory, even if it doesn't make sense.
That’s harsh, man.
I've had claude reference prior conversations when I'm trying to get technical help on thing A, and it will ask me if this conversation is because of thing B that we talked about in the immediate past
I asked Claude UI to clear its memory a little while back and hoo boy CC got really stupid for a couple of days
It gives you a convenient way to say "remember this bug for me, we should fix tomorrow". I'll be playing around with it more for sure.
I asked Claude to give me a TLDR (condensed from its system prompt):
----
Persistent directory at ~/.claude/projects/{project-path}/memory/, persists across conversations
MEMORY.md is always injected into the system prompt; truncated after 200 lines, so keep it concise
Separate topic files for detailed notes, linked from MEMORY.md What to record: problem constraints, strategies that worked/failed, lessons learned
Proactive: when I hit a common mistake, check memory first - if nothing there, write it down
Maintenance: update or remove memories that are wrong or outdated
Organization: by topic, not chronologically
Tools: use Write/Edit to update (so you always see the tool calls)
I create a git worktree, start Claude Code in that tree, and delete after. I notice each worktree gets a memory directory in this location. So is memory fragmented and not combined for the "main" repo?
First: marginal inference cost vs total business profitability. It’s very plausible (and increasingly likely) that OpenAI/Anthropic are profitable on a per-token marginal basis, especially given how cheap equivalent open-weight inference has become. Third-party providers are effectively price-discovering the floor for inference.
Second: model lifecycle economics. Training costs are lumpy, front-loaded, and hard to amortize cleanly. Even if inference margins are positive today, the question is whether those margins are sufficient to pay off the training run before the model is obsoleted by the next release. That’s a very different problem than “are they losing money per request”.
Both sides here can be right at the same time: inference can be profitable, while the overall model program is still underwater. Benchmarks and pricing debates don’t really settle that, because they ignore cadence and depreciation.
IMO the interesting question isn’t “are they subsidizing inference?” but “how long does a frontier model need to stay competitive for the economics to close?”
But the max 20x usage plans I am more skeptical of. When we're getting used to $200 or $400 costs per developer to do aggressive AI-assisted coding, what happens when those costs go up 20x? what is now $5k/yr to keep a Codex and a Claude super busy and do efficient engineering suddenly becomes $100k/yr... will the costs come down before then? Is the current "vibe-coding renaissance" sustainable in that regime?
See people get confused. They think you can charge __less__ for software because it's automation. The truth is you can charge MORE, because it's high quality and consistent, once the output is good. Software is worth MORE than a corresponding human, not less.
The interesting question is if they are subsidizing the $200/mo plan. That's what is supporting the whole vibecoding/agentic coding thing atm. I don't believe Claude Code would have taken off if it were token-by-token from day 1.
(My baseless bet is that they're, but not by much and the price will eventually rise by perhaps 2x but not 10x.)
And why is that? Should they not be interested in sharing the numbers to shut up their critics, esp. now that AI detractors seem to be growing mindshare among investors?
There any many places that will not use models running on hardware provided by OpenAI / Anthropic. That is the case true of my (the Australian) government at all levels. They will only use models running in Australia.
Consequently AWS (and I presume others) will run models supplied by the AI companies for you in their data centres. They won't be doing that at a loss, so the price will cover marginal cost of the compute plus renting the model. I know from devs using and deploying the service demand outstrips supply. Ergo, I don't think there is much doubt that they are making money from inference.
Remember "worse is better". The model doesn't have to be the best; it just has to be mostly good enough, and used by everyone -- i.e., where switching costs would be higher than any increase in quality. Enterprises would still be on Java if the operating costs of native containers weren't so much cheaper.
So it can make sense to be ok with losing money with each training generation initially, particularly when they are being driven by specific use-cases (like coding). To the extent they are specific, there will be more switching costs.
https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/14a23d7f-8a10-4cde-89fe-0...
> there are approximately 200k common nouns in English, and then we square that, we get 40 billion combinations. At one second per, that's ~1200 years, but then if we parallelize it on a supercomputer that can do 100,000 per second that would only take 3 days. Given that ChatGPT was trained on all of the Internet and every book written, I'm not sure that still seems infeasible.
There are estimated to be 100 or so prepositions in English. That gets you to 4 trillion combinations.
It's called "The science of cycology: Failures to understand how everyday objects work" by Rebecca Lawson.
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/bf03195929.pdf
A fundamental part of the job is being able to break down problems from large to small, reason about them, and talk about how you do it, usually with minimal context or without deep knowledge in all aspects of what we do. We're abstraction artists.
That question wouldn't be fundamentally different than any other architecture question. Start by drawing big, hone in on smaller parts, think about edge cases, use existing knowledge. Like bread and butter stuff.
I much more question your reaction to the joke than using it as a hypothetical interview question. I actually think it's good. And if it filters out people that have that kind of reaction then it's excellent. No one wants to work with the incurious.
> Without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.
https://www.freepik.com/free-vector/cyclist_23714264.htm
https://www.freepik.com/premium-vector/bicycle-icon-black-li...
Or missing/broken pedals:
https://www.freepik.com/premium-vector/bicycle-silhouette-ic...
https://www.freepik.com/premium-vector/bicycle-silhouette-ve...
http://freepik.com/premium-vector/bicycle-silhouette-vector-...
Also, is it bad that I almost immediately noticed that both of the pelican's legs are on the same side of the bicycle, but I had to look up an image on Wikipedia to confirm that they shouldn't have long necks?
Also, have you tried iterating prompts on this test to see if you can get more realistic results? (How much does it help to make them look up reference images first?)
I think when I first tried this I iterated a few times to get to something that reliably output SVG, but honestly I didn't keep the notes I should ahve.
They got surprisingly far, but i did need to iterate a few times to have it build tools that would check for things like; dont put walls on roads or water.
What I think might be the next obstacle is self-knowledge. The new agents seem to have picked up ever more vocabulary about their context and compaction, etc.
As a next benchmark you could try having 1 agent and tell it to use a coding agent (via tmux) to build you a pelican.
I asked Opus 4.6 for a pelican riding a recumbent bicycle and got this.
$200 * 1,000 = $200k/month.
I'm not saying they are, but to say that they aren't with such certainty, when money is on the line; unless you have some insider knowledge you'd like to share with the rest of the class, it seems like an questionable conclusion.
I don't think it quite captures their majesty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%81k%C4%81p%C5%8D
Would you mind sharing which benchmarks you think are useful measures for multimodal reasoning?
They are doing these broad marketing programs trying to take on ChatGPT for "normies". And yet their bread and butter is still clearly coding.
Meanwhile, Claude's general use cases are... fine. For generic research topics, I find that ChatGPT and Gemini run circles around it: in the depth of research, the type of tasks it can handle, and the quality and presentation of the responses.
Anthropic is also doing all of these goofy things to try to establish the "humanity" of their chatbot - giving it rights and a constitution and all that. Yet it weirdly feels the most transactional out of all of them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a paying Claude customer and love what it's good at. I just think there's a disconnect between what Claude is and what their marketing department thinks it is.
That doesn't mean you have to, but I'm curious why you think it's behind in the personal assistant game.
- Recipes and cooking: ChatGPT just has way more detailed and practical advice. It also thinks outside of the box much more, whereas Claude gets stuck in a rut and sticks very closely to your prompt. And ChatGPT's easier to understand/skim writing style really comes in useful.
- Travel and itinerary: Again, ChatGPT can anticipate details much more, and give more unique suggestions. I am much more likely to find hidden gems or get good time-savers than Claude, which often feels like it is just rereading Yelp for you.
- Historical research: ChatGPT wins on this by a mile. You can tell ChatGPT has been trained on actual historical texts and physical books. You can track long historical trends, pull examples and quotes, and even give you specific book or page(!) references of where to check the sources. Meanwhile, all Claude will give you is a web search on the topic.
All the labs seem to do very different post training. OpenAI focuses on search. If it's set to thinking, it will search 30 websites before giving you an answer. Claude regularly doesn't search at all even for questions it obviously should. It's postraining seems more focused on "reasoning" or planning - things that would be useful in programming where the bottleneck is: just writing code without thinking how you'll integrate it later and search is mostly useless. But for non coding - day to day "what's the news with x" "How to improve my bread" "cheap tasty pizza" or even medical questions, you really just want a distillation of the internet plus some thought
Geopolitically speaking this is hilarious.
I used to think of Gemini as the lead in terms of Portuguese, but recently subjectively started enjoying Claude more (even before Opus 4.5).
In spite of this, ChatGPT is what I use for everyday conversational chat because it has loads of memories there, because of the top of the line voice AI, and, mostly, because I just brainstorm or do 1-off searches with it. I think effectively ChatGPT is my new Google and first scratchpad for ideas.
I sometimes vibe code in polish and it's as good as with English for me. It speaks a natural, native level Polish.
I used opus to translate thousands of strings in my app into polish, Korean, and two Chinese dialects. Polish one is great, and the other are also good according to my customers.
I wish there was a "Reset" button to go back to the original position.
Where are you in Poland?
Their limit system is so bad.
well that explains quite a bit
To me, their claim that they are vibe coding Claude code isn’t the flex they think it is.
I find it harder and harder to trust anthropic for business related use and not just hobby tinkering. Between buggy releases, opaque and often seemingly glitches rate limits and usage limits, and the model quality inconsistency, it’s just not something I’d want to bet a business on.
> Unable to process - no bug report provided. Please share the issue details you'd like me to convert into a GitHub issue title
It is not at all a small app, at least as far as UX surface area. There are, what, 40ish slash commands? Each one is an opportunity for bugs and feature gaps.
The complex and magic parts are around finding contextual things to include, and I'd be curious how many are that vs "forgot to call clear() in the TUI framework before redirecting to another page".
Cue I could build it in a weekend vibes, I built my own agent TUI using the OpenAI agent SDK and Ink. Of course it’s not as fleshed out as Claude, but it supports git work trees for multi agent, slash commands, human in the loop prompts and etc. If I point it at the Anthropic models it more or less produces results as m good as the real Claude TUI.
I actually “decompiled” the Claude tools and prompts and recreated them. As of 6 months ago Claude was 15 tools, mostly pretty basic (list for, read file, wrote file, bash, etc) with some very clever prompts, especially the task tool it uses to do the quasi planning mode task bullets (even when not in planning mode).
Honestly the idea of bringing this all together with an affordable monthly service and obviously some seriously creative “prompt engineers” is the magic/hard part (and making the model itself, obviously).
they're also total garbage
The amount of non-critical bugs all over the place is at least a magnitude larger than of any software I was using daily ever.
Plenty of built in /commands don't work. Sometimes it accepts keystrokes with 1 second delays. It often scrolls hundreds of lines in console after each key stroke Every now and then it crashes completely and is unrecoverable (I once have up and installed a fresh wls) When you ask it question in plan mode it is somewhat of an art to find the answer because after answering the question it will dump the whole current plan (free screens of text)
And just in general the technical feeling of the TUI is that of a vibe coded project that got too big to control.
Discussions are pointless when the parties are talking past each other.
file explorer takes 5 seconds to open
Memory comparison of AI coding CLIs (single session, idle):
| Tool | Footprint | Peak | Language |
|-------------|-----------|--------|---------------|
| Codex | 15 MB | 15 MB | Rust |
| OpenCode | 130 MB | 130 MB | Go |
| Claude Code | 360 MB | 746 MB | Node.js/React |
vmmap shows Claude Code reserves 32.8 GB virtual memory just for the V8 heap, has 45% malloc fragmentation, and a peak footprint of 746 MB that never gets released, classic leak pattern.
On my 16 GB Mac, a "normal" workload (2 Claude sessions + browser + terminal) pushes me into 9.5 GB swap within hours. My laptop genuinely runs slower with Claude Code than when I'm running local LLMs.
I get that shipping fast matters, but building a CLI with React and a full Node.js runtime is an architectural choice with consequences. Codex proves this can be done in 15 MB. Every Claude Code session costs me 360+ MB, and with MCP servers spawning per session, it multiplies fast.
This is just regular tech debt that happens from building something to $1bn in revenue as fast as you possibly can, optimize later.
They're optimizing now. I'm sure they'll have it under control in no time.
CC is an incredible product (so is codex but I use CC more). Yes, lately it's gotten bloated, but the value it provides makes it bearable until they fix it in short time.
React fixes issues with the DOM being too slow to fully re-render the entire webpage every time a piece of state changes. That doesn't apply in a TUI, you can re-render TUIs faster than the monitor can refresh. There's no need to selectively re-render parts of the UI, you can just re-render the entire thing every time something changes without even stressing out the CPU.
It brings in a bunch of complexity that doesn't solve any real issues beyond the devs being more familiar with React than a TUI library.
I thought this was a solid take
Codex (by openai ironically) seems to be the fastest/most-responsive, opens instantly and is written in rust but doesn't contain that many features
Claude opens in around 3-4 seconds
Opencode opens in 2 seconds
Gemini-cli is an abomination which opens in around 16 second for me right now, and in 8 seconds on a fresh install
Codex takes 50ms for reference...
--
If their models are so good, why are they not rewriting their own react in cli bs to c++ or rust for 100x performance improvement (not kidding, it really is that much)
If you build React in C++ and Rust, even if the framework is there, you'll likely need to write your components in C++/Rust. That is a difficult problem. There are actually libraries out there that allow you to build web UI with Rust, although they are for web (+ HTML/CSS) and not specifically CLI stuff.
So someone needs to create such a library that is properly maintained and such. And you'll likely develop slower in Rust compared to JS.
These companies don't see a point in doing that. So they just use whatever already exists.
- https://github.com/ratatui/ratatui
Most modern UI systems are inspired by React or a variant of its model.
Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't. Who decides what the truth is? A human? ClawdBot?
Opencode's core is actually written in zig, only ui orchestration is in solidjs. It's only slightly slower to load than neo-vim on my system.
What's apparently happening is that React tells Ink to update (re-render) the UI "scene graph", and Ink then generates a new full-screen image of how the terminal should look, then passes this screen image to another library, log-update, to draw to the terminal. log-update draws these screen images by a flicker-inducing clear-then-redraw, which it has now fixed by using escape codes to have the terminal buffer and combine these clear-then-redraw commands, thereby hiding the clear.
An alternative solution, rather than using the flicker-inducing clear-then-redraw in the first place, would have been just to do terminal screen image diffs and draw the changes (which is something I did back in the day for fun, sending full-screen ASCII digital clock diffs over a slow 9600baud serial link to a real terminal).
I'm not sure what the history of log-output has been or why it does the clear-before-draw. Another simple alternative to pre-clear would have been just to clear to end of line (ESC[0K) after each partial line drawn.
Diffing and only updating the parts of the TUI which have changed does make sense if you consider the alternative is to rewrite the entire screen every "frame". There are other ways to abstract this, e.g. a library like tqmd for python may well have a significantly more simple abstraction than a tree for storing what it's going to update next for the progress bar widget than claude, but it also provides a much more simple interface.
To me it seems more fair game to attack it for being written in JS than for using a particular "rendering" technique to minimise updates sent to the terminal.
The terminal does not have a render phase (or an update state phase). You either refresh the whole screen (flickering) or control where to update manually (custom engine, may flicker locally). But any updates are sequential (moving the cursor and then sending what to be displayed), not at once like 2D pixel rendering does.
So most TUI only updates when there’s an event to do so or at a frequency much lower than 60fps. This is why top and htop have a setting for that. And why other TUI software propose a keybind to refresh and reset their rendering engines.
But there are many different rendering libraries you can use with React, including Ink, which is designed for building CLI TUIs..
I've used it myself. It has some rough edges in terms of rendering performance but it's nice overall.
React itself is a frontend-agnostic library. People primarily use it for writing websites but web support is actually a layer on top of base react and can be swapped out for whatever.
So they’re really just using react as a way to organize their terminal UI into components. For the same reason it’s handy to organize web ui into components.
Who cares, and why?
All of the major providers' CLI harnesses use Ink: https://github.com/vadimdemedes/ink
A year or more ago, I read that both Anthropic and OpenAI were losing money on every single request even for their paid subscribers, and I don't know if that has changed with more efficient hardware/software improvements/caching.
Turns out there was a lot of low-hanging fruit in terms of inference optimization that hadn't been plucked yet.
> A year or more ago, I read that both Anthropic and OpenAI were losing money on every single request even for their paid subscribers
Where did you hear that? It doesn't match my mental model of how this has played out.
> Turns out there was a lot of low-hanging fruit in terms of inference optimization that hadn't been plucked yet.
That does not mean the frontier labs are pricing their APIs to cover their costs yet.
It can both be true that it has gotten cheaper for them to provide inference and that they still are subsidizing inference costs.
In fact, I'd argue that's way more likely given that has been precisely the goto strategy for highly-competitive startups for awhile now. Price low to pump adoption and dominate the market, worry about raising prices for financial sustainability later, burn through investor money until then.
What no one outside of these frontier labs knows right now is how big the gap is between current pricing and eventual pricing.
[1] https://epochai.substack.com/p/can-ai-companies-become-profi...
That really matters. If they are making a margin on inference they could conceivably break even no matter how expensive training is, provided they sign up enough paying customers.
If they lose money on every paying customer then building great products that customers want to pay for them will just make their financial situation worse.
chasing down a few sources in that article leads to articles like this at the root of claims[1], which is entirely based on information "according to a person with knowledge of the company’s financials", which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
[1] https://www.theinformation.com/articles/openai-getting-effic...
I wrote a guide to deciphering that kind of language a couple of years ago: https://simonwillison.net/2023/Nov/22/deciphering-clues/
They are for sure subsidising costs on all you can prompt packages (20-100-200$ /mo). They do that for data gathering mostly, and at a smaller degree for user retention.
> evidence at all that Anthropic or OpenAI is able to make money on inference yet.
You can infer that from what 3rd party inference providers are charging. The largest open models atm are dsv3 (~650B params) and kimi2.5 (1.2T params). They are being served at 2-2.5-3$ /Mtok. That's sonnet / gpt-mini / gemini3-flash price range. You can make some educates guesses that they get some leeway for model size at the 10-15$/ Mtok prices for their top tier models. So if they are inside some sane model sizes, they are likely making money off of token based APIs.
so my unused tokens compensate for the few heavy users
I hope my unused gym subscription pays back the good karma :-)
Anthropic planning an IPO this year is a broad meta-indicator that internally they believe they'll be able to reach break-even sometime next year on delivering a competitive model. Of course, their belief could turn out to be wrong but it doesn't make much sense to do an IPO if you don't think you're close. Assuming you have a choice with other options to raise private capital (which still seems true), it would be better to defer an IPO until you expect quarterly numbers to reach break-even or at least close to it.
Despite the willingness of private investment to fund hugely negative AI spend, the recently growing twitchiness of public markets around AI ecosystem stocks indicates they're already worried prices have exceeded near-term value. It doesn't seem like they're in a mood to fund oceans of dotcom-like red ink for long.
The evidence is in third party inference costs for open source models.
are we sure this is not a fancy way of saying quantization?
The same is happening in AI research now.
And if you've worked with pytorch models a lot, having custom fused kernels can be huge. For instance, look at the kind of gains to be had when FlashAttention came out.
This isn't just quantization, it's actually just better optimization.
Even when it comes to quantization, Blackwell has far better quantization primitives and new floating point types that support row or layer-wise scaling that can quantize with far less quality reduction.
There is also a ton of work in the past year on sub-quadratic attention for new models that gets rid of a huge bottleneck, but like quantization can be a tradeoff, and a lot of progress has been made there on moving the Pareto frontier as well.
It's almost like when you're spending hundreds of billions on capex for GPUs, you can afford to hire engineers to make them perform better without just nerfing the models with more quantization.
This gets repeated everywhere but I don't think it's true.
The company is unprofitable overall, but I don't see any reason to believe that their per-token inference costs are below the marginal cost of computing those tokens.
It is true that the company is unprofitable overall when you account for R&D spend, compensation, training, and everything else. This is a deliberate choice that every heavily funded startup should be making, otherwise you're wasting the investment money. That's precisely what the investment money is for.
However I don't think using their API and paying for tokens has negative value for the company. We can compare to models like DeepSeek where providers can charge a fraction of the price of OpenAI tokens and still be profitable. OpenAI's inference costs are going to be higher, but they're charging such a high premium that it's hard to believe they're losing money on each token sold. I think every token paid for moves them incrementally closer to profitability, not away from it.
It is essentially a big game of venture capital chicken at present.
If you're looking at overall profitability, you include everything
If you're talking about unit economics of producing tokens, you only include the marginal cost of each token against the marginal revenue of selling that token
To me this looks likes some creative bookkeeping, or even wishful thinking. It is like if SpaceX omits the price of the satellites when calculating their profits.
This is obviously not true, you can use real data and common sense.
Just look up a similar sized open weights model on openrouter and compare the prices. You'll note the similar sized model is often much cheaper than what anthropic/openai provide.
Example: Let's compare claude 4 models with deepseek. Claude 4 is ~400B params so it's best to compare with something like deepseek V3 which is 680B params.
Even if we compare the cheapest claude model to the most expensive deepseek provider we have claude charging $1/M for input and $5/M for output, while deepseek providers charge $0.4/M and $1.2/M, a fifth of the price, you can get it as cheap as $.27 input $0.4 output.
As you can see, even if we skew things overly in favor of claude, the story is clear, claude token prices are much higher than they could've been. The difference in prices is because anthropic also needs to pay for training costs, while openrouter providers just need to worry on making serving models profitable. Deepseek is also not as capable as claude which also puts down pressure on the prices.
There's still a chance that anthropic/openai models are losing money on inference, if for example they're somehow much larger than expected, the 400B param number is not official, just speculative from how it performs, this is only taking into account API prices, subscriptions and free user will of course skew the real profitability numbers, etc.
Price sources:
It isn't "common sense" at all. You're comparing several companies losing money, to one another, and suggesting that they're obviously making money because one is under-cutting another more aggressively.
LLM/AI ventures are all currently under-water with massive VC or similar money flowing in, they also all need training data from users, so it is very reasonable to speculate that they're in loss-leader mode.
Local AI's make agent workflows a whole lot more practical. Making the initial investment for a good homelab/on-prem facility will effectively become a no-brainer given the advantages on privacy and reliability, and you don't have to fear rugpulls or VC's playing the "lose money on every request" game since you know exactly how much you're paying in power costs for your overall load.
I would rather spend money on some pseudo-local inference (when cloud company manages everything for me and I just can specify some open source model and pay for GPU usage).
Except that newer "agent swarm" workflows do exactly that. Besides, batching requests generally comes with a sizeable increase in memory footprint, and memory is often the main bottleneck especially with the larger contexts that are typical of agent workflows. If you have plenty of agentic tasks that are not especially latency-critical and don't need the absolutely best model, it makes plenty of sense to schedule these for running locally.
1) how do you depreciate a new model? What is its useful life? (Only know this once you deprecate it)
2) how do you depreciate your hardware over the period you trained this model? Another big unknown and not known until you finally write the hardware off.
The easy thing to calculate is whether you are making money actually serving the model. And the answer is almost certainly yes they are making money from this perspective, but that’s missing a large part of the cost and is therefore wrong.
Which is profitable. but not by much.
https://ollama.com/library/gemini-3-pro-preview
You can run it on your own infra. Anthropic and openAI are running off nvidia, so are meta(well supposedly they had custom silicon, I'm not sure if its capable of running big models) and mistral.
however if google really are running their own inference hardware, then that means the cost is different (developing silicon is not cheap...) as you say.
This is all straight out of the playbook. Get everyone hooked on your product by being cheap and generous.
Raise the price to backpay what you gave away plus cover current expenses and profits.
In no way shape or form should people think these $20/mo plans are going to be the norm. From OpenAI's marketing plan, and a general 5-10 year ROI horizon for AI investment, we should expect AI use to cost $60-80/mo per user.