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Posted by buellerbueller 13 hours ago

Uber Found Liable in Rape by Driver, Setting Stage for Cases(www.nytimes.com)
54 points | 70 comments
1vuio0pswjnm7 1 hour ago|
Judgment for 8.5 million

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41...

Is this the first of many to come

jqpabc123 12 hours ago||
If Uber can be held liable for driver's actions then Tesla can be held liable for "Full Self Driving" cars that aren't.
itsdesmond 11 hours ago||
Let’s uh not change the subject.
buellerbueller 12 hours ago||
Let's hope.
Pwntastic 13 hours ago||
https://archive.ph/5wF6Z
josefritzishere 12 hours ago||
Uber was found liable of "apparent agency" if you are interested: https://legal-resources.uslegalforms.com/a/apparent-agency
ktallett 12 hours ago||
Drivers are only independent contractors due to poor employment policy from Uber. They work for Uber, therefore Uber do have a duty of care to the users of their service. Now some may say that they only provide the platform similar to Silkroad, however the key difference is that the drivers are representing Uber, in Silkroad's case the sellers were not representing silkroad.

If Uber wish to be seperate from those drivers, they need to provide the customer the chance to choose the driver, and have an appropriate review system.

Ekaros 12 hours ago|
Uber isn't a marketplace like say Ebay. As such I expect them to be responsible for the actions of "contractors" they appointed to do the job. As the buyer couldn't freely choose the contractor.
buellerbueller 11 hours ago||
I think this is exactly the point that GP commenter is making.
josefritzishere 12 hours ago||
[flagged]
hackingonempty 12 hours ago|
This is a civil case.
hydrogen7800 12 hours ago|||
Do you think he knows the difference? Or cares?
decremental 12 hours ago||
[dead]
josefritzishere 12 hours ago|||
He has tried to act on state level cases before, though not successfully yet.
OutOfHere 12 hours ago||
[flagged]
kayodelycaon 12 hours ago|
From the article, it was reported to the police. The lawsuit came later and Uber didn’t try to deny it happened.

From a civil law perspective, it doesn’t matter who did it.

The police report is substantial evidence that the event wasn’t made up for the purposes of the lawsuit. Her story was credible to the jury. And Uber’s own algorithms showed significant increased risk for that ride. In other words, Uber knew this could’ve happened and deliberately did not do anything to mitigate the risk.

Even if a rape didn’t really occur in this specific case, Uber knows it has happened many times before. This isn’t a criminal case and they don’t get the assumption of innocence when they have a pattern of guilt.

Let’s put it this way, it’s wrong to assume that an innocent man is always going to be abusive. It is reasonable to assume that someone with a long history of abuse will continue to be abusive.

OutOfHere 11 hours ago||
[flagged]
bdcravens 11 hours ago||
The driver acknowledged he knew she was drunk, and that he didn't get explicit consent.

Uber had already flagged it internally as a high-risk ride (drunk female, alone) and didn't take additional security measures.

OutOfHere 11 hours ago||
[flagged]
ceejayoz 10 hours ago|||
> Are you in effect saying the driver admitted to raping her?

https://www.courthousenews.com/in-sexual-assault-trial-uber-...

"In a deposition for a federal sexual assault lawsuit against Uber, former driver Hassan Turay admitted that Jaylynn Dean could not consent when he had sex with her in the back of his car in 2023. 'I had a responsibility to make sure she was in a right state of mind, and I did not do that,' Turay said in a video deposition played in court Wednesday afternoon."

"'Honestly, I didn’t do too much to make sure that she could consent,' Turay said when asked. He never checked in with her or asked if she was OK. 'You’ve just made me see another aspect with the whole thing of consent.' By the end of his deposition, Turay said he was wrong to have had sex with Dean."

bdcravens 11 hours ago||||
He admitted to having sex with her without explicit consent.
buellerbueller 11 hours ago|||
Then perhaps Uber should find a new business model? Lyft lets women specifically request a female driver.
diggyhole 12 hours ago||
[flagged]
ceejayoz 12 hours ago||
Sure. But:

> Over three weeks, jurors weighed the harrowing personal account of Ms. Dean as well as testimony from Uber executives and thousands of pages of internal company documents, including some showing that Uber had flagged her ride as a higher risk for a serious safety incident moments before she was picked up.

Thus, civil liability. The rapist still goes down for the crime part.

bombcar 12 hours ago||
The fact that Uber has a system that flags "RAPE LIKELY" and still picks "make the cash" is appalling.
mc32 11 hours ago||
I really would like to know what that means in actuality.

It sounds scandalous here but what does it mean on the ground?

Obviously diff interpretations and practice mean widely diverging truths on the ground with diverging responsibilities.

ceejayoz 11 hours ago||
https://www.courthousenews.com/in-sexual-assault-trial-uber-...

> When matching drivers with riders, Uber uses an AI-powered safety feature called the safety ride assistant dispatch, or SRAD. SRAD gives potential driver-rider matches a score from 0 to 1 based on potential for sexual assault and aims to make matches with the lowest risk. Risk factors include location and time of day, but SRAD also considers a driver’s weekend and nighttime request rate, scoring them as more risky because they may be more likely to be searching for easy victims.

> The SRAD score for Dean’s trip with Turay was 0.81, which was higher than the late-night average for the Phoenix area. Uber said it never informed Dean of its risk assessment. “We did not, nor would it be practical to provide that information to riders,” Sunny Wong, Uber’s director of applied science, said in a deposition played for the jury earlier in the day.

mc32 8 hours ago||
That’s pretty wild. It absolutely makes sense that if you can, you would try to minimize rider (and driver) risk. I also agree I can’t see this ever being shown to a rider or driver. (that would expose them to other risk)

That said, this system is a double edged sword. It allows you to provide safer services to your customers but it paradoxically also exposes you to another risk. So even though on the whole this system prevents many instances of violence, when it misses and it results in violence, it can come back to bite you. Implied is that if they didn’t have this system more violence on their services would happen, but because they don’t measure driver risk score, they wouldn’t be as liable.

buellerbueller 12 hours ago||
The killer was the bullet, not the person who held the gun.
diggyhole 12 hours ago||
Did you stretch before that reach?
buellerbueller 11 hours ago||
I agree, both of our arguments are ridiculous.
charcircuit 12 hours ago|
[flagged]
odysseus 12 hours ago||
Exactly. Also curious how the NY Times names the woman and the company reps but never names the rapist. This article does name him: https://www.nbcrightnow.com/online_features/press_releases/j...
croes 12 hours ago|||
> that drivers are independent contractors.

Yeah sure. Totally independent from Uber.

buellerbueller 12 hours ago|||
If the state knew the guy was a rapist, then Uber could have too, had it done due diligence prior to putting the guy in the car with someone else.
plagiarist 12 hours ago||
The contractor is acting on behalf of the company though? We don't need yet more magical liability protections for billionaires, we need fewer.