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Posted by ColinWright 1 day ago

We mourn our craft(nolanlawson.com)
648 points | 746 commentspage 13
dismalaf 1 day ago|
Dunno, LLMs writing code still feels like they memorized a bunch of open source code and vomited them out in worse condition.

It's not that impressive that Claude wrote a C compiler when GitHub has the code to a bunch of C compilers (some SOTA) just sitting there.

I'm using an LLM to write a compiler in my spare time (for fun) for a "new" language. It feels more like a magical search engine than coding assistant. It's great for bouncing ideas from, for searching the internet without the clutter of SEO optimized sites and ads, it's definitely been useful, just not that useful for code.

Like, I have used some generated code in a very low stakes project (my own Quickshell components) and while it kind of worked, eventually I refactored it myself into 1/3 of the lines it produced and had to squash some bugs.

It's probably good enough for the people who were gluing React components together but it still isn't on the level where I'd put any code it produces into production anywhere I care about.

falloutx 9 hours ago||
C compiler it wrote doesnt even compile. Waste of $20k
codazoda 1 day ago||
That is my experience from a year ago but I no longer feel that way. I write a few instructions, guide an agent to create a plan, and rarely touch the code myself. If I don’t like something, I ask the agent to fix it.
zeroonetwothree 1 day ago||
Agree, there was a huge step change with Claude Code + Opus 4.5 (maybe 4.6 is even better?). Anyone dealing with earlier models as their basis should probably try the newest stuff and see if it changes their minds.
light_hue_1 1 day ago||
I'm that 40 year old now. Been writing code since grade 5. Loved it so much I got a PhD, was an academic, then moved into industry.

I don't mourn or miss anything. No more then the previous generation mourned going from assembly to high level languages.

The reason why programming is so amazing is getting things done. Seeing my ideas have impact.

What's happening is that I'm getting much much faster and better at writing code. And my hands feel better because I don't type the code in anymore.

Things that were a huge pain before are nothing now.

I didn't need to stay up at night writing code. I can think. Plan. Execute at a scale that was impossible before. Alone I'm already delivering things that were on the roadmap for engineering months worth of effort.

I can think about abstractions, architecture, math, organizational constraints, product. Not about what some lame compiler thinks about my code.

And if someone that's far junior to me can do my job. Good. Then we've empowered them and I've fallen behind. But that's not at all the case. The principals and faculty who are on the ball are astronomically more productive than juniors.

Krasnol 1 day ago||
I wonder whether, in the end, it was simply poor accessibility that made programmers special, and whether it is that what some of them are missing. Being special by "talking" a special language their customers can't comprehend.

Sure, they are still needed for debugging and for sneering at all those juniors and non-programmers who will finally be able to materialise their fantasies, but there is no way back anymore, and like riding horses, you can still do it while owning a car.

k33n 1 day ago||
This entire panic is a mass-hysteria event. The hallucination that "an LLM can do software engineering better than a 10x engineer" is only possible because there are so few 10xers left in the business. 99% either retired or are otherwise not working at the moment.

The "difficult", "opinionated", "overpaid" maniacs are virtually all gone. That's why such a reckless and delusional idea like "we'll just have agents plan, coordinate, and build complete applications and systems" is able to propagate.

The adults were escorted out of the building. Managements' hatred of real craftspeople is manifesting in the most delusional way yet. And this time, they're actually going to destroy their businesses.

I'm here for it. They're begging to get their market share eaten for breakfast.

arrowsmith 1 day ago||
Speak for yourself. I don't miss writing code at all. Agentic engineering is much more fun.

And this surprises me, because I used to love writing code. Back in my early days I can remember thinking "I can't believe I get paid for this". But now that I'm here I have no desire to go back.

I, for one, welcome our new LLM overlords!

foobarian 1 day ago||
I had that same epiphany when I discovered AI is great at writing complicated shell command lines for me. I had a bit of an identity crisis right there because I thought I was an aspiring Unixhead neckbeard but in truth I hated the process. Especially the scavenger hunt of finding stuff in man pages.
wesammikhail 1 day ago|||
Speak for yourself. If you find the agentic workflow to be more fun, more power to you.

I for one think writing code is the rewarding part. You get to think through a problem and figure out why decision A is better than B. Learning about various domains and solving difficult problems is in itself a reward.

arrowsmith 10 hours ago|||
I don't understand this perspective. I've never learned so much so fast as I have in the last few months. LLMs automate all the boring rote stuff, freeing up my time to focus exclusively on the high-level problem-solving. I'm enjoying my work more than ever.

To be fair, I might have felt some grief initially for my old ways of working. It was definitely a weird shift and it took me a while to adjust. But I've been all-in on AI for close to a year now, and I have absolutely zero regrets.

I can't believe I used to _type code out by hand_. What a primitive world I grew up in.

dragonelite 1 day ago||||
Same here i'm a decade plus in this field, writing code was by far the number 1 and the discussion surrounding system design was a far second. Take away the coding i don't think i will make it to retirement being a code/llm PR auditor for work. So i'am already planning on exiting the field in the next decade.
nojito 1 day ago|||
>You get to think through a problem and figure out why decision A is better than B. Learning about various domains and solving difficult problems is in itself a reward.

So just tell the LLM about what you're thinking about.

Why do you need to type out a for loop for the millionth time?

zeroonetwothree 1 day ago||
(a) it's relaxing and pleasing to do something like typing out a for loop. The repetition with minor variation stimulates our brains just the right amount. Same reason why people like activities like gardening, cooking, working on cars, Legos, and so on. (b) it allows you to have some time to think about what you're doing. The "easy" part of coding gives you a bit of breathing room to plan out the next "hard" section.
popopopopoopop 1 day ago||
[dead]
dogcomplex 20 hours ago||
lmao nope burn in hell old programming. What is emerging is a thousand times better than that dumpster fire
dlvhdr 1 day ago||
Another post saying 6 more months.. i’m so tired of these
chetanahuja 22 hours ago||
Oh good lord. Spare us the beatings of the chest and rending of the garments. "crafting code by hand" like some leftover hipsters from 2010s crafting their own fabric using a handloom. It's fucking code. Were there similar gnashing of the teeth and wails of despair when compilers were first introduced?
arrowsmith 10 hours ago|
> Were there similar gnashing of the teeth and wails of despair when compilers were first introduced?

Yes, at least according to ChatGPT:

"Compilers didn’t arrive to universal applause; they arrived into a world where a chunk of programmers absolutely believed the machine could not be trusted to write “real” code—until the productivity wins (and eventually the performance) became undeniable."

Damn that sounds familiar.

falloutx 9 hours ago||
compiler is deterministic, coding models are not. compilers have been unit tested and will generate same output for a given input. They are not the same things.
arrowsmith 8 hours ago||
So?
Applejinx 1 day ago||
I mean go ahead and cry if you want. You are losing time best spent caring about stuff, and overlooking many alarming gotchas through blindly accepting SV hype. I'd have thought crypto would teach people something, but apparently not.

Do what isn't replaceable. You're being told literally everything is replaceable. Note who's telling you that and follow the money.

I feel bad for this essayist, but can't really spare more than a moment to care about his grief. I got stuff to do, and I am up and doing. If he was in any way competing with the stuff I do? One less adversary.

I would rather bring him into community and enjoy us all creating together… but he's acting against those interests and he's doomering and I have no more time for that.

popopopopoopop 1 day ago|
[dead]
webdevver 1 day ago|
it definitely sucks to be honest, and theres a lot of cope out there.

fact of the matter is, being able to churn out bash oneliners was objectively worth $100k/year, and now it just isnt anymore. knowing the C++ STL inside-out was also worth $200k/year, now it has very questionable utility.

a lot of livelihoods are getting shaken up as programmers get retroactively turned into the equivalent of librarians, whose job is to mechanically index and fetch cognitive assets to and from a digital archive-brain.

throwaway0123_5 1 day ago|
Yeah, I notice a lot of the optimism is from people who have been in the field for decades. I'm newish to the field, half a decade out of undergrad. It definitely feels like almost all of what I learned has been (or will soon be) completely devalued. I'm sure this stuff feels a lot less threatening if you've had decades to earn a great salary and save a bunch of money. If money wasn't a concern I'd be thrilled about it too.
falloutx 9 hours ago||
No, dont trust the supposed "staff engineer" types, Many had forgotten how to write code and now they can finally live the fantasy of being architects. So for them its like winning a jackpot. For people who could always write good code, the basics are still same, a good dev is still a good dev, and its even more important to be able to read & critique code.
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