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Posted by iancmceachern 3 days ago

Waymo exec reveals company uses remote workers in the Philippines(people.com)
123 points | 158 commentspage 2
noupdates 4 hours ago|
I'm guessing it is for situations like should the Waymo stay in a particular lane or switch lanes, try to overtake another car, etc. That's probably the type of "guidance", which seems a lot like optimization.
ra7 3 hours ago|
These videos from Waymo shows what kind of guidance they provide:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=T0WtBFEfAyo

https://youtube.com/watch?v=elpQPbJXpfY

Notice how the system itself reasons about the scene and asks for help with possible options.

This whole story is a nothingburger. The only “news” here is that the operators are in Philippines.

cal_dent 3 hours ago||
The resurgence of this seems to be another addition to the sort of culture war that is going on right now around ai v human labour. I suspect this sort of thing will continue to make hay in the press over the coming year
eek2121 3 hours ago||
Fun fact, if they are using foreign workers at all, however briefly, they are likely in violation of state law in multiple states.

HOWEVER:

It is entirely possible that some back room deals were made, and possibly laws put on the books in the states they've rolled out in.

I suspect more will come from this, eventually, especially if waymo is involved in accidents that involve insurance claims, injuries, or deaths in one of those states.

danpalmer 3 hours ago||
IIRC from when Waymo discussed this previously, the remote people don't drive the car, they issue instructions to the autonomous driver. If that's the case they shouldn't need a driving licence.
dekhn 2 hours ago|||
Wouldn't it be risky to do that? This is a multi-billion dollar gamble being executed in front of the public, egregiously breaking the law or making back-room deals both risk extreme negative public reaction if exposed.

We know that eventually a self-driving car will hit somebody and kill them. Waymo and other companies are prepared for that.

rcxdude 3 hours ago||
what state law would they be violating?
Curiositiy 3 hours ago||
You would wonder how many US healthcare businesses use customer service reps and other workers in PH.
sanex 3 hours ago||
Don't all companies use remote workers in the Philippines?
baxtr 3 hours ago||
I think it’s funny how this can be framed: Self-driving cars facilitate the offshoring of local jobs.
Geste 3 hours ago|
The goal of it all is to reduce the costs of labor (you, basically). On that, AI and robotics are doing just fine !
TurdF3rguson 2 hours ago||
The labor Waymo reduces is Uber drivers. How is that me basically? I'm not an Uber driver.
dcchambers 3 hours ago||
From a legal standpoint: do these people need valid drivers licenses?
jedberg 3 hours ago||
If a person from the Philippines comes to the USA, they are allowed to drive on our roads as long as they have a valid license in the Philippines (no international permit required).

I would assume that would apply here too.

But also, they aren't actually driving the car. They are giving hints to the autonomous driver.

adolph 3 hours ago||
I think this is a key question. In the May 2024 blog post about "fleet response" it sounds like Waymo has a lawyerly set of rules they follow to distinguish between remote operation and providing guidance to the self-driving system.

  Much like phone-a-friend, when the Waymo vehicle encounters a particular 
  situation on the road, the autonomous driver can reach out to a human fleet 
  response agent for additional information to contextualize its environment. 
  The Waymo Driver does not rely solely on the inputs it receives from the 
  fleet response agent and it is in control of the vehicle at all times.

  [...]

  Fleet response can influence the Waymo Driver's path, whether indirectly 
  through indicating lane closures, explicitly requesting the AV use a 
  particular lane, or, in the most complex scenarios, explicitly proposing a 
  path for the vehicle to consider. The Waymo Driver evaluates the input from 
  fleet response and independently remains in control of driving. 
https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response
hsbauauvhabzb 3 hours ago||
I’d be curious about situations where latency or outages result in deaths of people who have not signed the waymo TOS.
rcxdude 3 hours ago|||
Has Waymo been responsible, in any material way, for any deaths? To my knowledge they have not. (from a quick search: their cars have been involved in one fatal collision total, where a "SUV rear-ends stopped vehicle behind stopped Waymo at high speed, one passenger in the human-driven car and animal declared dead", a situation in which their car was obviously only peripherally involved)
hsbauauvhabzb 3 hours ago||
I have no idea. I never suggested they have already happened, but I am certain that they will.
spankalee 3 hours ago|||
I'd be curious about situations where human drivers have caused the deaths of people who didn't sign the driver's TOS.
hsbauauvhabzb 2 hours ago||
That’s individual vs corporate liability, and ‘best efforts’ when things are being outsourced to a different geographic region is riskier than a locally managed decisions team would be an interesting argument.
tehjoker 4 hours ago||
It's hard to say what this means. They didn't give a single example of the kinds of situations the remote workers help in. I can think of an array of different kinds of situations ranging from "should I continue with this route or turn back" which would be a yes/no dialog box with the car prompting monitoring to real time pedal inputs or emergency stops by people watching the displays constantly.

~~Generally when a company is vague about these things, you should assume there is some very intensive aspect to it undercutting their claims of autonomy or some aspect where people think its dangerous.~~

EDIT: See link below.

Rudybega 4 hours ago|
I mean, Waymo gives a lot of examples of the situations, in their blog post about Fleet Response where they detail this, released May 21, 2024. They're very explicit that the Waymo Driver autonomous system is in control the entire time.

This isn't something new.

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response

pgwhalen 4 hours ago|||
Thanks for this link. I’ve failed to find specifics on this for a while but this is pretty good, particularly the example about which lane to choose when cones are set up.
tehjoker 4 hours ago|||
Very helpful, thank you.
jrm4 4 hours ago|
So everyone saying "oh but they told us this" is completely missing the point; it's like those weird logic problems where everyone on the island has a dot on their head or whatever.

There's a massive difference between "widely known" and "widely known that it's widely known."

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