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Posted by WXLCKNO 4 hours ago

Claude Code is being dumbed down?(symmetrybreak.ing)
622 points | 424 comments
bcherny 58 minutes ago|
Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change.

One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical things about building on models, and also one of the things that makes it very hard. There's always a feeling that the model is outpacing what any given product is able to offer (ie. product overhang). We try very hard to keep up, and to deliver a UX that lets people experience the model in a way that is raw and low level, and maximally useful at the same time.

In particular, as agent trajectories get longer, the average conversation has more and more tool calls. When we released Claude Code, Sonnet 3.5 was able to run unattended for less than 30 seconds at a time before going off the rails; now, Opus 4.6 1-shots much of my code, often running for minutes, hours, and days at a time.

The amount of output this generates can quickly become overwhelming in a terminal, and is something we hear often from users. Terminals give us relatively few pixels to play with; they have a single font size; colors are not uniformly supported; in some terminal emulators, rendering is extremely slow. We want to make sure every user has a good experience, no matter what terminal they are using. This is important to us, because we want Claude Code to work everywhere, on any terminal, any OS, any environment.

Users give the model a prompt, and don't want to drown in a sea of log output in order to pick out what matters: specific tool calls, file edits, and so on, depending on the use case. From a design POV, this is a balance: we want to show you the most relevant information, while giving you a way to see more details when useful (ie. progressive disclosure). Over time, as the model continues to get more capable -- so trajectories become more correct on average -- and as conversations become even longer, we need to manage the amount of information we present in the default view to keep it from feeling overwhelming.

When we started Claude Code, it was just a few of us using it. Now, a large number of engineers rely on Claude Code to get their work done every day. We can no longer design for ourselves, and we rely heavily on community feedback to co-design the right experience. We cannot build the right things without that feedback. Yoshi rightly called out that often this iteration happens in the open. In this case in particular, we approached it intentionally, and dogfooded it internally for over a month to get the UX just right before releasing it; this resulted in an experience that most users preferred.

But we missed the mark for a subset of our users. To improve it, I went back and forth in the issue to understand what issues people were hitting with the new design, and shipped multiple rounds of changes to arrive at a good UX. We've built in the open in this way before, eg. when we iterated on the spinner UX, the todos tool UX, and for many other areas. We always want to hear from users so that we can make the product better.

The specific remaining issue Yoshi called out is reasonable. PR incoming in the next release to improve subagent output (I should have responded to the issue earlier, that's my miss).

Yoshi and others -- please keep the feedback coming. We want to hear it, and we genuinely want to improve the product in a way that gives great defaults for the majority of users, while being extremely hackable and customizable for everyone else.

steinnes 46 minutes ago||
I can’t count how many times I benefitted from seeing the files Claude was reading, to understand how I could interrupt and give it a little more context… saving thousands of tokens and sparing the context window. I must be in the minority of users who preferred seeing the actual files. I love claude code, but some of the recent updates seem like they’re making it harder for me to see what’s happening.. I agree with the author that verbose mode isn’t the answer. Seems to me this should be configurable
bcherny 40 minutes ago|||
I think folks might be crossing wires a bit. To make it so you can see full file paths, we repurposed verbose mode to enable the old explicit file output, while hiding more details behind ctrl+o. In effect, we've evolved verbose mode to be multi-state, so that it lets you toggle back to the old behavior while giving you a way to see even more verbose output, while still defaulting everyone else to the condensed view. I hope this solves everyones' needs, while also avoiding overly-specific settings (we wanted to reuse verbose mode for this so it is forwards-compatible going fwd).

To try it: /config > verbose, or --verbose.

Please keep the feedback coming. If there is anything else we can do to adjust verbose mode to do what you want, I'd love to hear.

btown 5 minutes ago|||
I'll add a counterpoint that in many situations (especially monorepos for complex businesses), it's easy for any LLM to go down rabbit holes. Files containing the word "payment" or "onboarding" might be for entirely different DDD domains than the one relevant to the problem. As a CTO touching all sorts of surfaces, I see this problem at least once a day, entirely driven by trying to move too fast with my prompts.

And so the very first thing that the LLM does when planning, namely choosing which files to read, are a key point for manual intervention to ensure that the correct domain or business concept is being analyzed.

Speaking personally: Once I know that Claude is looking in the right place, I'm on to the next task - often an entirely different Claude session. But those critical first few seconds, to verify that it's looking in the right place, are entirely different from any other kind of verbosity.

I don't want verbose mode. I want Claude to tell me what it's reading in the first 3 seconds, so I can switch gears without fear it's going to the wrong part of the codebase. By saying that my use case requires verbose mode, you're saying that I need to see massive levels of babysitting-level output (even if less massive than before) to be able to do this.

(To lean into the babysitting analogy, I want Claude to be the babysitter, but I want to make sure the babysitter knows where I left the note before I head out the door.)

extr 33 minutes ago||||
FWIW I mentioned this in the thread (I am the guy in the big GH issue who actually used verbose mode and gave specific likes/dislikes), but I find it frustrating that ctrl+o still seems to truncate at strange boundaries. I am looking at an open CC session right now with verbose mode enabled - works pretty well and I'm glad you're fixing the subagent thing. But when I hit ctrl+o, I only see more detailed output for the last 4 messages, with the rest hidden behind ctrl+e.

It's not an easy UI problem to solve in all cases since behavior in CC can be so flexible, compaction, forking, etc. But it would be great if it was simply consistent (ctrl+o shows last N where N is like, 50, or 100), with ctrl+e revealing the rest.

bcherny 28 minutes ago||
Yes totally. ctrl+o used to show all messages, but this is one of the tricky things about building in a terminal: because many terminals are quite slow, it is hard to render a large amount of output at once without causing tearing/stutter.

That said, we recently rewrote our renderer to make it much more efficient, so we can bump up the default a bit. Let me see what it feels like to show the last 10-20 messages -- fix incoming.

trb 11 minutes ago||||
I've commented on this ticket before: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/8477#issuec...

The thinking mode is super-useful to me as I _often_ saw the model "think" differently from the response. Stuff like "I can see that I need to look for x, y, z to full understand the problem" and then proceeds to just not do that.

This is helpful as I can interrupt the process and guide it to actually do this. With the thinking-output hidden, I have lost this avenue for intervention.

I also want to see what files it reads, but not necessarily the output - I know most of the files that'll be relevant, I just want to see it's not totally off base.

Tl;dr: I would _love_ to have verbose mode be split into two modes: Just thinking and Thinking+Full agent/file output.

---

I'm happy to work in verbose mode. I get many people are probably fine with the standard minimal mode. But at least in my code base, on my projects, I still need to perform a decent amount of handholding through guidance, the model is not working for me the way you describe it working for you.

All I need is a few tools to help me intervene earlier to make claude-code work _much_ better for me. Right now I feel I'm fighting the system frequently.

Wowfunhappy 12 minutes ago||||
Honestly, I just want to be able to control precisely what I see via config.json. It will probably differ depending on the project. This is a developer tool, I don't see why you'd shy away from providing granular configuration (alongside reasonable defaults).

I actually miss being able to see all of the thinking, for example. That was useful, because I could tell more quickly when the model was making a wrong assumption.

noodletheworld 34 minutes ago|||
How do you respond to the comment that; given the log trace:

“Did something 2 times”

That may as well not be shown at all in default mode?

What useful information is imparted by “Read 4 files”?

You have two issues here:

1) making verbose mode better. Sure.

2) logging useless information in default.

If you're not imparting any useful information, claude may as well just show a spinner.

bcherny 26 minutes ago||
It's a balance -- we don't want to hide everything away, so you have an understanding of what the model is doing. I agree that with future models, as intelligence and trust increase, we may be able to hide more, but I don't think we're there yet.
verelo 38 minutes ago||||
Not only what files, but what part of the files. Seeing 1-6 lines of a file that's being read is extremely frustrating, the UX of Claude code is average at best. Cursor on the other hand is slow and memory intensive, but at least I can really get a sense of what's going on and how I can work with it better.
4gotunameagain 19 minutes ago|||
> saving thousands of tokens and sparing the context window

shhh don't say that, they will never fix it if means you use less tokens.

ctoth 11 minutes ago|||
I'm a screen reader user and CTO of an accessibility company. This change doesn't reduce noise for me. It removes functionality.

Sighted users lost convenience. I lost the ability to trust the tool. There is no "glancing" at terminal output with a screen reader. There is no "progressive disclosure." The text is either spoken to me or it doesn't exist.

When you collapse file paths into "Read 3 files," I have no way to know what the agent is doing with my codebase without switching to verbose mode, which then dumps subagent transcripts, thinking traces, and full file contents into my audio stream. A sighted user can visually skip past that. I listen to every line sequentially.

You've created a situation where my options are "no information" or "all information." The middle ground that existed before, inline file paths and search patterns, was the accessible one.

This is not a power user preference. This is a basic accessibility regression. The fix is what everyone in this thread has been asking for: a BASIC BLOODY config flag to show file paths and search patterns inline. Not verbose mode surgery. A boolean.

Please just add the option.

And yes, I rewrote this with Claude to tone my anger and frustration down about 15 clicks from how I actually feel.

sdoering 47 minutes ago|||
There are so many config options. Most I still need to truly deeply understand.

But this one isn't? I'd call myself a professional. I use with tons of files across a wide range of projects and types of work.

To me file paths were an important aspect of understanding context of the work and of the context CC was gaining.

Now? It feels like running on a foggy street, never sure when the corner will come and I'll hit a fence or house.

Why not introduce a toggle? I'd happily add that to my alisases.

Edit: I forgot. I don't need better subagent output. Or even less output whrn watching thinking traces. I am happy to have full verbosity. There are cases where it's an important aspect.

bcherny 39 minutes ago||
You want verbose mode for this -- we evolved it to do exactly what you're asking for: verbose file reads, without seeing thinking traces, hook output, or (after tomorrow's release) full subagent output.

More details here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46982177

gchamonlive 48 minutes ago|||
So in a nutshell Claude becoming smarter means that logic that once resided in the agent is being moved to the model?

If that's the case, it's important to asses wether it'll be consistent when operating on a higher level, less dependent on the software layer that governs the agent. Otherwise it'll risk Claude also becoming more erratic.

Aeolun 27 minutes ago|||
> this resulted in an experience that most users preferred

I just find that very hard to believe. Does anyone actually do anything with the output now? Or are they just crossing their fingers and hoping for the best?

bcherny 25 minutes ago||
Have you tried verbose mode? /config > verbose. It should do exactly what you are looking for now, without extraneous thinking/subagent/hook output. We hear the feedback!
holoduke 45 seconds ago|||
To be honest I think there should be an option to completely hide all code that Claude generates and uses. Summaries, strategies, plans, logs, decisions and questions is all I need. I am convinced that in a few years nobody cares about the programming language itself.
exabrial 11 minutes ago|||
@boris

Can we please move the "Extended Thinking" icon back to the left side of claude desktop, near the research and web search icons? What used to be one click is now three.

gigatexal 51 minutes ago|||
Boris! Unrelated but thank you and the Anthropic team for Claude code. It’s awesome. I use it every day. No complaints. You all just keep shipping useful little UX things all the time. It must be because it’s being dogfooded internally. Kudos again to the team!
cactusplant7374 51 minutes ago|||
In what terminals is rendering slow? I really think GPU acceleration for terminals (as seen in Ghostty) is silly. It's a terminal.

Edit: I can't post anymore today apparently because of dang. If you post a comment about a bad terminal at least tell us about the rendering issues.

bcherny 47 minutes ago|||
VSCode (xterm.js) is one of the worst, but there's a large long tail of slow terminals out there.
vikaveri 25 minutes ago||
Not really using VS Code terminal anymore, just Ubuntu terminal but the biggest problem I have is that at some point Claude just eats up all memory and session crashes. I know it's not really Claude's fault but damn it's annoying.
latchkey 47 minutes ago|||
As someone who's business is run through a terminal, not everyone uses ghostty, even though they should. Remember, that they don't have a windows version.
imadierich 36 minutes ago|||
[dead]
lombasihir 41 minutes ago|||
ok claude
latchkey 49 minutes ago||
This is an insanely good response. History, backstory, we screwed up, what we're doing to fix it. Keep up the great work!
rmujica 36 minutes ago|||
it reads like AI generated or at least AI assisted... those -- don't fool me!
bcherny 16 minutes ago||
fwiw, I wrote it 100% by hand. Maybe I talk to Claude too much..
latchkey 8 minutes ago||
i thought about it being ai generated, but i don't care. it was easy to read and contained the right information. good enough for me. plus, who knows... maybe you were english as a second lang and used ai to clean up your writing. i'd prefer that.
ares623 34 minutes ago|||
would've been better to post the prompt directly IMO
vintagedave 3 hours ago||
> That’s it. “Read 3 files.” Which files? Doesn’t matter. “Searched for 1 pattern.” What pattern? Who cares.

Product manager here. Cynically, this is classic product management: simplify and remove useful information under the guise of 'improving the user experience' or perhaps minimalism if you're more overt about your influences.

It's something that as an industry we should be over by now.

It requires deep understanding of customer usage in order not to make this mistake. It is _really easy_ to think you are making improvements by hiding information if you do not understand why that information is perceived as valuable. Many people have been taught that streamlining and removal is positive. It's even easier if you have non-expert users getting attention. All of us here at HN will have seen UIs where this has occurred.

alphazard 3 hours ago||
Product management might be the worst meme in the industry. Hire people who have never used the product and don't think like or accurately represent our users, then let them allocate engineering resources and gate what ships. What could go wrong?

It should be a fad gone by at this point, but people never learn. Here's what to do instead: Find your most socially competent engineer, and have them talk to users a couple times a month. Just saved you thousands or millions in salaries, and you have a better chance of making things that your users actually want.

mlinsey 2 hours ago|||
Good PM's are extremely good at understanding users, and use soft-skills to make the rest of the org focus on users more. I've worked with a couple, and they've added an enormous amount of value, sometimes steering teams of dozens of engineers in a more productive direction.

The problem is, it's hard to measure how good a PM is, even harder than for engineers. The instinct is to use product KPI's to do so, but especially at BigTech company, distribution advantages and traction of previous products will be the dominant factor here, and the best way of raising many product KPI's are actually user-hostile. Someone who has been a successful FAANG engineer who goes to a startup might lean towards over-engineering, but at least they should be sharp on the fundamentals. Someone who has been a successful FAANG PM might actually have no idea how to get PMF.

> Here's what to do instead: Find your most socially competent engineer, and have them talk to users a couple times a month

This is actually a great idea, but what will happen is this socially competent engineer will soon have a new full-time job gathering those insights, coalescing them into actionable product changes, persuading the rest of the org to adopt those changes, and making sure the original user insights make it into the product. Voila: you've re-invented product management.

But I actually think it's good to source PM's from people who've been engineers for a few years. PM's used to come from a technical background; Google famously gave entry-level coding tests to PM's well into the '10s. I dunno when it became more fashionable to hire MBA's and consultants into this role, but it may have been a mistake.

alphazard 1 hour ago|||
> Voila: you've re-invented product management.

This is a names vs. structure thing. For a moment, taboo the term product manager.

What I'm suggesting is a low risk way to see if an engineer has an aptitude for aligning the roadmap with what the users want. If they aren't great at it, they can go back to engineering. We also know for sure that they are technically competent since they are currently working as an engineer, no risk there.

The conventional wisdom (bad meme) is going to the labor market with a search term for people who claim to know what the users want, any user, any problem, doesn't matter. These people are usually incompetent and have never written software. Then hiring 1 and potentially more of the people that respond to the shibboleth.

If you want the first case, then you can't say "product manager" because people will automatically do the second case.

dasil003 1 hour ago|||
Putting on a PM hat is something I've been doing regularly in my engineering career over the last quarter century. Even as a junior (still in college!) at my first job I was thinking about product, in no small part because there were no PMs in sight. As I grew through multiple startups and eventually bigger brand name tech companies, I realized that understanding how the details work combined with some sense of what users actually want and how they behave is a super power. With AI this skillset has never been more relevant.

I agree your assessment about the value of good PMs. The issue, in my experience, is that only about 20% (at most) are actually good. 60% are fine and can be successful with the right Design and Engingeering partners. And 20% should just be replaced by AI now so we can put the proper guardrails around their opinions and not be misled by their charisma or whatever other human traits enabled them to get hired into a job they are utterly unqualified for.

bunderbunder 2 hours ago||||
I have worked with some really really good product managers.

But not lately. Lately it’s been people who have very little relevant domain expertise, zero interest in putting in the time to develop said expertise beyond just cataloguing and regurgitating feedback from the customers they like most on a personal level, and seem to mostly have only been selected for the position because they are really good at office politics.

But I think it’s not entirely their fault. What I’ve also noticed is that, when I was on teams with really elective product managers, we also had a full time project manager. That possibly freed up a lot of the product manager’s time. One person to be good at the tactical so the other can be good at the strategic.

Since project managers have become passé, though, I think the product managers are just stretched too thin. Which sets up bad incentive structures: it’s impossible to actually do the job well anymore, so of course the only ones who survive are the office politicians who are really good at gladhanding the right people and shifting blame when things don’t go well.

alphazard 2 hours ago|||
There are individuals who have good taste for products in certain domains. Their own preferences are an accurate approximation for those of the users. Those people might add value when they are given control of the product.

That good taste doesn't translate between domains very often. Good taste for developer tools doesn't mean good taste for a video game inventory screen. And that's the crux of the problem. There is a segment of the labor market calling themselves "product manager" who act like good taste is domain independent, and spread lies about their importance to the success of every business. What's worse is that otherwise smart people (founders, executives) fall for it because they think hiring them is what they are supposed to do.

Over time, as more and more people realized that PM is a side door into big companies with lots of money, "Product Manager" became an imposter role like "Scrum Master". Now product orgs are pretty much synonymous with incompetence.

npunt 34 minutes ago|||
Taste is pretty transferable, I think what you're talking about is intuition. The foundations of intuition are deeply understanding problems and the ability to navigate towards solutions related to those problems. Both of these are relatively domain-dependent. People can have intuition for how to do things but lack the taste to make those solutions feel right.

Taste on the other hand is about creating an overall feeling from a product. It's holistic and about coherence, where intuition is more bottom-up problem solving. Tasteful decisions are those that use restraint, that strike a particular tone, that say 'no' when others might say 'yes'. It's a lot more magical, and a lot rarer.

Both taste and intuition are ultimately about judgment, which is why they're often confused for one another. The difference is they approach problems from the opposite side; taste from above, intuition from below.

I agree with your assessment otherwise, PM can be a real smoke screen especially across domain and company stage.

sarchertech 1 hour ago|||
> There is a segment of the labor market calling themselves "product manager" who act like good taste is domain independent

That’s definitely one of the biggest problems with product management. The delusion that you can be an expert at generic “product”.

We used to have subject matter experts who worked with engineers. That made sense to me.

rrrx3 2 hours ago|||
The proportion of "really good" PMs on product engineering teams has to be less than 0.1%.

The counter to that is "the proportion of 'really good engineers' to product engineering teams has got to be in the single digits," and I would agree with that, as well.

The problem is what is incentivized to be built - most teams are working on "number go up?" revenue or engagement as a proxy to revenue "problems." Not "is this a good product that people actively enjoy using?" problems.

Just your typical late-stage capitalism shit.

Aurornis 2 hours ago||||
> Hire people who have never used the product and don't think like or accurately represent our users

In most of my engineering jobs, the Product Managers were much closer to our users than the engineers.

Good product managers are very valuable. There are a lot of bad ones carrying the product manager title because it was viewed as the easy way to get a job in tech without having to know how to program, but smart companies are getting better at filtering them out.

> Find your most socially competent engineer, and have them talk to users a couple times a month

Every single time I've seen this tried, it turns into a situation where one or two highly vocal customers capture the engineering team's direction and steer the product toward their personal needs. It's the same thing that happens when the sales people start feeding requests from their customers into the roadmap.

mbesto 2 hours ago||||
This sentiment is going exactly against the trend right now. AI coding is making technically minded product manager's MORE powerful not less. When/if coding just because your ability to accurately describe what you want to build, the people yielding this skill are the ones who understand customer requirements, not the opposite.

> Find your most socially competent engineer,

These usually get promoted to product management anyway, so this isn't a new thought.

alphazard 2 hours ago||
> This sentiment is going exactly against the trend right now.

It's not.

Engineers are having more and more minutia and busy work taken off their plate, now done by AI. That allows them to be heads up more often, more of their cognitive capacity is directed towards strategy, design, quality.

Meanwhile, users are building more and more of their own tools in house. Why pay someone when you can vibe code a working solution in a few minutes?

So product managers are getting squeezed out by smarter people below them moving into their cognitive space and being better at solving the problems they were supposed to be solving. And users moving into their space by taking low hanging fruit away from them. No more month long discussions about where to put the chart and what color it should be. The user made their own dashboard and it calls into the API. What API? The one the PM doesn't understand and a single engineer maintains with the help of several LLMs.

If it's simple and easy: the user took it over, if it's complex: it's going to the smartest person in the room. That has never been the PM.

nix0n 1 hour ago||||
> people who have never used the product and don't think like or accurately represent our users

I agree completely that these are the important qualifications to be setting direction for a product.

> Find your most socially competent engineer, and have them talk to users a couple times a month.

This doesn't necessarily follow from the above, but in Anthropic's case specifically, where the users are software engineers, it probably would have worked better than whatever they have going on now.

In general, it's probably better to have domain experts doing product management, as opposed to someone who is trained in product management.

singleshot_ 1 hour ago||||
> your most socially competent engineer

Unfortunately, he’s already two of our SEs and the CTO and we’re starting to run low on coders.

What are we going to do when we need a customer success manager or a profserv team?

NinjaTrance 3 hours ago|||
Product managers are fooling themselves if they think they can "improve the user experience" for developers -- developers can't agree on the simplest things such as key bindings (vim, emacs) or identation (tabs, spaces).

Make the application configurable. Developers like to tinker with their tools.

sli 1 hour ago|||
Every single website on the internet just says "whoopsie doodle, me made an oopsie" instead of just telling me what the problem is. This so-called mistake is so widespread that it has been the standard for at least a decade.

I agree it's a mistake, but I don't believe that it's viewed that way by anyone making the decision to do it.

oldestofsports 1 hour ago||
You dont expose error details to the user for security reasons, even though it does indeed make the user experience worse.
falcor84 1 hour ago||
I understand not exposing a full stack trace, but I don't see any excuse to not even expose a googleable error code. If me having an error code makes your product insecure, then you have a much bigger problem.
teaearlgraycold 48 minutes ago||
I show the stack trace on AGPL projects. Why hide what they can already see for themselves?
falcor84 26 minutes ago||
The reason I see is that it might expose the value of secret keys or other sensitive variables. But if you are certain it won't happen, then yes
crazygringo 1 hour ago|||
> under the guise of 'improving the user experience' or perhaps minimalism

I think we can be more charitable. Don't you see, even here on HN, people constantly asking for software that is less bloated, that does fewer things but does them better, that code is cost, and every piece of complexity is something that needs to be maintained?

As features keep getting added, it is necessary to revisit where the UX is "too much" and so things need to be hidden, e.g. menu commands need to be grouped in a submenu, what was toolbar functionality now belongs in a dialog, reporting needs to be limited to a verbose mode, etc.

Obviously product teams get it wrong sometimes, users complain, and if enough users complain, then it's brought back, or a toggle to enable it.

There's nothing to be cynical about, and it's not something we "should be over by now." It's just humans doing their best to strike the balance between a UX that provides enough information to be useful without so much information that it overwhelms and distracts. Obviously any single instance isn't usually enough to overwhelm and distract, but in aggregate they do, so PM's and designers try to be vigilant to simplify wherever possible. But they're only human, sometimes they'll get it wrong (like maybe here), and then they fix it.

roughly 3 hours ago|||
This also shifts over time - new users, especially people sophisticated in the field your tool is addressing, need to be convinced the product is doing what they believe it should be doing, and want to see more output from it. They may become comfortable with the product over time and move further up the trust/abstraction ladder, but at the beginning, verbose output is a trust-building mechanism.
tetha 1 hour ago|||
We are currently extremely blessed on the companies new product, because they have placed a curious and open-minded product manager and a curious and open-minded ux-designer in charge of the administrative interface. Over half a year, those two have gained the trust of several admins within the company, all of them with experience of more than 10 years.

We have by now taught them about good information density.

Like, the permission pages, if you look at them just once, kinda look like bad 90s UIs. They throw a crapton of information at you.

But they contain a lot of smart things you only realize when actually using it from an admin perspective. Easy comparison of group permissions by keeping sorting orders and colors stable, so you can toggle between groups and just visually match what's different, because colors change. Highlights of edge cases here and there. SSO information around there as well. Loads of frontloaded necessary info with optional information behind various places.

You can move seriously fast in that interface once you understand it.

Parts of the company hate it for not being user friendly. I just got a mail that a customer admin was able to setup SSO in 15 minutes and debug 2 mapping issues in another 10 and now they are production ready.

mrandish 2 hours ago|||
> Many people have been taught that streamlining and removal is positive.

Over the past ten years or so the increasing de-featuring of software under the guise of 'simplification' has become a critical issue for power users. For any GUI apps which have a mixed base of consumer and power users, I mostly don't update them anymore because they're as likely to get net worse vs better.

It's weird that companies like MSFT seem puzzled why so many users refuse to update Windows or Office to major new feature versions.

willhslade 2 hours ago||
What in Office has been a degradation? Just curious. I mostly agree about Windows.
QuantumGood 2 hours ago|||
Well, some who start as developers don't truly see users as stakeholders, sometimes not even remotely, and they often aren't assisted to change that view. While it feels astonishing in direct encounters, on the sliding scale of "are you a person that sees other people as stakeholders in general", many developers can be close to the "no" end of that scale. So not necessarily an institutional view.
starkeeper 3 hours ago|||
I think it might also come down to UI churn. Sprint over? What to do next? Everything is always moving because people have nothing meaningful to do.
bsder 3 hours ago|||
> Cynically, this is classic product management: simplify and remove useful information under the guise of 'improving the user experience' or perhaps minimalism if you're more overt about your influences.

Cynically, it's a vibe coded mess and the "programmers" at Anthropic can't figure out how to put it back.

More cynically, Anthropic management is trying to hide anything that people could map to token count (aka money) so that they can start jiggling the usage numbers to extract more money from us.

fhd2 2 hours ago||
Fairly cynical indeed. Though I must admit that Anthropic's software - not the models, the software they build - seems to be generally plagued by quality issues. Even the dashboard is _somehow_ broken most of the time, at least whenever I try to do something.
wwweston 2 hours ago|||
I am so glad to hear there are working PMs who are aware of this (and if you’re hiring it makes me more interested in considering your employer).
vajrabum 2 hours ago|||
Or is this PM and executive management aiming for the no and low code users? That would fit the zeitgeist especially in the tech C level and their sales pitch to non-tech C levels.
robomartin 2 hours ago|||
Product management --and managers-- can be, shall we say, interesting.

I was recently involved with a company that wanted us to develop a product that would be disruptive enough to enter an established market, make waves and shock it.

We did just that. We ran a deep survey of all competing products, bought a bunch of them, studied absolutely everything about them, how they were used and their users. Armed with that information, we produced a set of specifications and user experience requirements that far exceeded anything in the market.

We got green-lit to deliver a set of prototypes to present at a trade show. We did that.

The prototypes were presented and they truly blew everyone away. Blogs, vlogs, users, everyone absolutely loved what we created and the sense was that this was a winning product.

And then came reality. Neither the product manager nor the CTO (and we could add the CEO and CFO to the list) had enough understanding and experience in the domain to take the prototypes to market. It would easily have required a year or two of learning before they could function in that domain.

What did they do? They dumbed down the product specification to force it into what they understood and what engineering building blocks they already had. Square peg solidly and violently pounded into a round hole.

The outcome? Oh, they built a product alright. They sure did. And it flopped, horribly flopped, as soon as it was introduced and made available. Nobody wanted it. It was not competitive. It offered nothing disruptive. It was a bad clone of everything already occupying space in that ecosystem. Game over.

The point is: Technology companies are not immune to human failings, ego, protectionism/turf guarding, bad decisions, bad management, etc.

When someone says something like "I am not sure that's a good idea for a startup. There's competition." My first though is: Never assume that competitors know what they are doing, are capable and always make the right decisions without making mistakes. You don't always need a better product, you need better execution.

seg_lol 2 hours ago||
Replace the C levels with AI. The C suite is am impediment to innovation and progress. They are the office politics mentioned in this entire thread. The person with the vision and the strategy is a random person out there that doesn't even work for your company. Hell, you could have done it.

> The point is: Technology companies are not immune to human failings, ego, protectionism/turf guarding, bad decisions, bad management, etc.

They only accidentally succeed in spite of those things. They have those things more than existing businesses precisely because having too much money masks the pressures that would force solid execution and results. When you have 80% profit margins, you can show up drunk.

idopmstuff 3 hours ago|||
Also product manager here.

Not at all cynically, this is classic product management - simplify by removing information that is useful to some users but not others.

We shouldn't be over it by now. It's good to think carefully about how you're using space in your UI and what you're presenting to the user.

You're saying it's bad because they removed useful information, but then why isn't Anthropic's suggestion of using verbose mode a good solution? Presumably the answer is because in addition to containing useful information, it also clutters the UI with a bunch of information the user doesn't want.

Same thing's true here - there are people who want to see the level of detail that the author wants and others for whom it's not useful and just takes up space.

> It requires deep understanding of customer usage in order not to make this mistake.

It requires deep understanding of customer usage to know whether it's a mistake at all, though. Anthropic has a lot deeper understanding of the usage of Claude Code than you or I or the author. I can't say for sure that they're using that information well, but since you're a PM I have to imagine that there's been some time when you made a decision that some subset of users didn't like but was right for the product, because you had a better understanding of the full scope of usage by your entire userbase than they did. Why not at least entertain the idea that the same thing is true here?

mattkrause 2 hours ago|||
Simplification can be good---but they've removed the wrong half here!

The notifications act as an overall progress bar and give you a general sense of what Claude Code is doing: is it looking in the relevant part of your codebase, or has it gotten distracted by some unused, vendored-in code?

"Read 2 files" is fine as a progress indicator but is too vague for anything else. "Read foo.cpp and bar.h" takes almost the same amount of visual space, but fulfills both purposes. You might want to fold long lists of files (5? 15?) but that seems like the perfect place for a user-settable option.

idopmstuff 2 hours ago||
> "Read 2 files" is fine as a progress indicator but is too vague for anything else. "Read foo.cpp and bar.h" takes almost the same amount of visual space, but fulfills both purposes.

Now this is a good, thoughtful response! Totally agree that if you can convey more information using basically the same amount of space, that's likely a better solution regardless of who's using the product.

NinjaTrance 3 hours ago||||
> It requires deep understanding of customer usage to know whether it's a mistake at all

Software developers like customizable tools.

That's why IDEs still have "vim keybindings" and many other options.

Your user is highly skilled - let him decide what he wants to see.

idopmstuff 3 hours ago|||
There are a lot of Claude Code users who aren't software developers. Maybe they've decided that group is the one they want to cater to? I recognize that won't be a popular decision with the HN crowd, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong one.
ivan_gammel 2 hours ago|||
I fully agree with you on almost everything you wrote in this thread, but I’m not sure this is the right answer. I myself currently spend a lot of time with CC and belong to that group of developers who don’t care about this problem. It’s likely that I’m not alone. So it doesn’t have to be the least professional audience they serve with this update. It’s possible that Anthropic knows what are they doing (e.g. reducing level of detail to simplify task of finding something more important in the output) and it’s also possible that they are simply making stupid product decisions because they have a cowboy PM who attacks some OKR screaming yahoo. We don’t know. In the end having multiple verbosity levels configured with granularity similar to java loggers would be nice.
idopmstuff 2 hours ago||
Oh totally - I'm definitely not saying that they made the decision to cater to non-dev users, just that it's a possibility. Totally agree with you that at the end of the day, we haven't the foggiest idea.
NewsaHackO 2 hours ago|||
Yeah, I made a similar point about the tone of ChatGPT responses; to me, I can't imagine why someone would want less information when working and tuning an AI model. However, something tells me they actually have hard evidence that users respond better with less information regardless of what the loud minority say online, and are following that.
collaborative 1 hour ago||
100%. Metrics don't lie. I've A/B tested this a lot. Attention is a rare commodity and users will zone out and leave your product. I really dislike this fact
mingus88 2 hours ago|||
Then why is the suggestion to use verbose mode treated as another mistake?

The user is highly skilled; let them filter out what is important

This should be better than adding an indeterminate number of toggles and settings, no?

8note 2 hours ago||
does claude code let me control whats output when?

verbose i think puts it on the TUI and i cant particularly grep or sed on the TUI

sfink 3 hours ago||||
Developer> This is important information and most developers want to see it.

PM1> Looks like a PM who is out of touch with what the developers want. Easy mistake to make.

PM2> Anthropic knows better than this developer. The developer is probably wrong.

I don't know for sure what the best decision is here, I've barely used CC. Neither does PM1 nor PM2, but PM2 is being awfully dismissive of the opinion of a user in the target audience. PM1 is probably putting a bit too much weight on Developer's opinion, but I fully agree with "All of us... have seen UIs where this has occurred." Yes, we have. I personally greatly appreciate a PM who listens and responds quickly to negative feedback on changes like this, especially "streamlining" and "reducing clutter" type changes since they're so easy to get wrong (as PM1 says).

> It's good to think carefully about how you're using space in your UI and what you're presenting to the user.

I agree. It's also good to have the humility to know that your subjective opinion as someone not in the target audience even if you're designing the product is less informed in many ways than that of your users.

----

Personally, I get creeped out by how many things CC is doing and tokens it's burning in the background. It has a strong "trust me bro" vibe that I dislike. That's probably common to all agent systems; I haven't used enough to know.

idopmstuff 2 hours ago|||
> PM2> Anthropic knows better than this developer. The developer is probably wrong.

Nope! Not what I said. I specifically said that I don't know if Anthropic is using the information they have well. Please at least have the courtesy not to misrepresent what I'm saying. There's plenty of room to criticize without doing that.

> It's also good to have the humility to know that your subjective opinion as someone not in the target audience even if you're designing the product is less informed in many ways than that of your users.

Ah, but you don't know I'm not the target audience. Claude Code is increasingly seeing non-developer users, and perhaps Anthropic has made a strategic decision to make the product friendlier to them, because they see that as a larger userbase to target?

I agree that it's important to have humility. Here's mine: I don't know why Anthropic made this decision. I know they have much more information than me about the product usage, its roadmap and their overall business strategy.

I understand that you may not like what they're doing here and that the lack of information creeps you out. That's totally valid. My point isn't that you're wrong to have that opinion, it's that folks here are wrong to assume that Anthropic made this decision because they don't understand what they're doing.

NinjaTrance 3 hours ago|||
> Personally, I get creeped out by how many things CC is doing and tokens it's burning in the background. It has a strong "trust me bro" vibe that I dislike.

100% this.

It might be convenient to hide information from non-technical users; but software engineers need to know what is happening. If it is not visible by default, it should be configurable via dotfiles.

dgacmu 3 hours ago||||
They know what people type into their tools, but they don't know what in the output users read and focus on unless they're convening a user study or focus group.

I personally love that the model tells me what file it has read because I know whether or not it's headed in the generally right direction that I intended. Anthropic has no way of knowing I feel this way.

idopmstuff 3 hours ago||
But you have no idea if they've convened user study or focus groups, right?

I'll just reiterate my initial point that the author of the post and the people commenting here have no idea what information Anthropic is working with. I'm not saying they've made the right decision, but I am saying that people ought to give them the slightest bit of credit here instead of treating them like idiots.

lp0_on_fire 3 hours ago||||
> You're saying it's bad because they removed useful information, but then why isn't Anthropic's suggestion of using verbose mode a good solution?

Because reading through hundreds of lines verbose output is not a solution to the problem of "I used to be able to see _at a glance_ what files were being touched and what search patterns were being used but now I can't".

idopmstuff 2 hours ago||
Right, I understand why people prefer this. The point was that the post I was responding to was making pretty broad claims about how removing information is bad but then ignoring the fact that they in fact prefer a solution that removes a lot of information.
sdwr 2 hours ago|||
I'm sure the goal is that reading files is something you debug, not monitor, like individual network requests in a browser.
throwaway613746 2 hours ago|||
[dead]
brutalc 3 hours ago||
Product managers aren’t needed anymore.
roughly 3 hours ago||
First they came for the product managers, and I said nothing, because I was a coder, and we're invincible and can do everything and also deliver value unlike all those other slackers, so they'd never come for us.
SOLAR_FIELDS 4 hours ago||
https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/8477

https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/15263

https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/9099

https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/8371

It's very clear that Anthropic doesn't really want to expose the secret sauce to end users. I have to patch Claude every release to bring this functionality back.

nine_k 4 hours ago||
I just assume that they realized that they can split the offering, and to charge for the top tier more. (Yes, even more.)

If Claude Code can replace an engineer, it should cost just a bit less than an engineer, not half as much.

elzbardico 3 hours ago|||
But then you pay for the less outrageously subsidized rates of API instead of the a bit less incredibly generous prices of the subscription.
eldenring 3 hours ago||
Its not subsidized, in fact, they probably have very healthy margins on Claude Code.
phi-go 3 hours ago||
Why do you think that?
johndough 40 minutes ago|||
DeepSeek had a theoretical profit margin of 545 % [1] with much inferior GPUs at 1/60th the API price.

Anthropic's Opus 4.6 is a bit bigger, but they'd have to be insanely incompetent to not make a profit on inference.

[1] https://github.com/deepseek-ai/open-infra-index/blob/main/20...

noosphr 1 hour ago|||
Because if you don't then current valuations are a bublle propped inflated by burning a mountain of cash.
falcor84 56 minutes ago|||
That's not how valuations work. A company's valuation is typically based on an NPV (net present value) calculation, which is a power series of its time-discounted future cash flows. Depending on the company's strategy, it's often rational for it to not be profitable for quite a long while, as long as it can give investors the expectation of significant profitability down the line.

Having said that, I do think that there is an investment bubble in AI, but am just arguing that you're not looking at the right signal.

cies 57 minutes ago|||
And that's OpenAI's biz model? :)
almosthere 2 hours ago||||
Remember there are no moats in this industry - if anything one company might have a 2 month lead, sometimes. We've also noticed that companies paying OpenAI may swiftly shift to paying Google or Anthropic in a heartbeat.

That means the pricing is going to be competitive. You may still get your wish though, but instead of the price of an engineer remaining the same, it will cut itself down by 95%.

co_king_3 4 hours ago|||
I don't know about you, but I benefit so much from using Claude at work that I would gladly pay $80,000-$120,000 per year to keep using it.
gchamonlive 3 hours ago|||
Why would you gladly pay more than what it's worth? It's not an engineer you are hiring, it's AI. The whole point of it was to make intelligent workflows cheaper. If it's going to cost as much as an engineer, hire the engineer, at least you'd have an escape goat when things invariably go wrong.
toyg 3 hours ago|||
> an escape goat

Autocorrect hall of famer, there.

gchamonlive 3 hours ago||
Scapegoat, got it. Can't blame the autocorrect though... I honestly thought it was spelled like that, which is a shame since I've been studying English my entire life as a second language.
_aavaa_ 2 hours ago||
At least that misunderstanding didn’t cause a nuclear accident: https://practical.engineering/blog/2025/4/15/when-kitty-litt...
gchamonlive 2 hours ago||
Luckily these strayed goats weren't irradiated
co_king_3 3 hours ago|||
I agree with you, I was just joking.
gchamonlive 3 hours ago||
Oh now I see... Joke's on me then I guess :D
enobrev 3 hours ago||
It wasn't clear to me that this was a joke either. I assume the same for others since the post is grayed out.
rahkiin 4 hours ago||||
Oh come on. That pays for more than 10 fte in some countries
co_king_3 3 hours ago||
I made this joke with "$1,500-$2000 per month" last night and everyone thought I was serious
nine_k 3 hours ago|||
I know people who burned several hundreds a day and still were finding it worth it.
co_king_3 3 hours ago||
Were they actually making money though? A lot of the people on the forefront of this AI stuff seem like cult leaders and crackheads to me.
sanswork 3 hours ago||
I'd pay up to $1000 pretty easily just based off the time it saves me personally from a lot of grindy type work which frees me up for more high value stuff.

It's not 10x by any means but it doesn't need to be at most dev salaries to pay for itself. 1.5x alone is probably enough of an improvement for most >jr developers for a company to justify $1000/month.

I suppose if your area of responsibility wasn't very broad the value would decrease pretty quickly so maybe less value for people at very large companies?

co_king_3 3 hours ago||
I can see $200 but $1,000 per month seems crazy to me.

Using Claude Code for one year is worth the same as a used sedan (I.E., ~$12,000) to you?

You could be investing that money!

sanswork 2 hours ago||
Yes, easily. Paying for Claude would be investing that money. Assuming 10% return which would be great I'd make an extra $1200 a year investing it. I'm pretty sure over the course of a year of not having to spend time doing low value or repetitive work I can increase productivity enough to more than cover the $13k difference. Developer work scales really well so removing a bunch of the low end and freeing up time for the more difficult problems is going to return a lot of value.
kadushka 3 hours ago|||
I would probably pay $2000 a month if I had to - it's a small fraction of my salary, and the productivity boost is worth it.
co_king_3 3 hours ago||
It's *worth it* when you're salaried? Compared to investing the money? Do you plan to land a very-high-paying executive role years down the line? Are you already extremely highly paid? Did Claude legitimately 10x your productivity?

edit: Fuck I'm getting trolled

kadushka 3 hours ago|||
I'm serious - the productivity boost I'm getting from using AI models is so significant, that it's absolutely worth paying even 2k/month. It saves me a lot of time, and enables me to deliver new features much faster (making me look better for my employer) - both of which would justify spending a small fraction of my own money. I don't have to, because my employer pays for it, but as I said, if I had to, I would pay.
mewpmewp2 2 hours ago||||
I am not paying this myself, but the place I work at is definitely paying around 2k a month for my Claude Code usage. I pay 2 x 200, for my personal projects.

I think personal subs are subsidized while corporate ones definitely not. I have CC for my personal projects running 16h a day with multiple instances, but work CC still racks way higher bills with less usage. If I had to guess my work CC is using 4x as little for 5x the cost so at least 20x difference.

I am not going to say it has 10xed or whatever with my productivity, but I would have never ever in that timeframe built all those things that I have now.

cdelsolar 49 minutes ago|||
I don't know why you keep insisting that no one is making any money off of this. Claude Code has made me outrageously more productive. Time = Money right?
knodi 3 hours ago||||
What do you use it for, do you have example? For you to be ok with paying 80k to 120k I'm guessing its making you 375-450k a year?
co_king_3 3 hours ago||
I'm joking, my point is that it's already quite expensive and I don't think it's making anyone money.
numpad0 3 hours ago||||
that means customers will pay minimum 2x that much I think
Der_Einzige 1 hour ago|||
STFU right now because the more you bring this up the more likely it'll happen.

Similarly, STFU about the stuff that can give LLMs ideas for how to harm us (you know what I'm talking about, it's reptilian based)

The whole comment thread is likely to have been read by some folks at Anthropic. Already a disaster. Just keep on with the "we hate it unless it gets cheaper" discourse please!!!

ukuina 4 hours ago|||
Patching's not long for this world; Claude Code has moved to binary releases. Soon, the NPM release will just be a thin wrapper around the binary.
bob1029 2 hours ago|||
> It's very clear that Anthropic doesn't really want to expose the secret sauce to end users

Meanwhile, I am observing precisely how VS+Copilot works in my OAI logs with zero friction. Plug in your own API key and you can MITM everything via the provider's logging features.

raincole 3 hours ago|||
> to end users

To other actors who want to train a distilled version of Claude, more likely.

egamirorrim 1 hour ago|||
I don't suppose you could share a little on that patching process?
dcre 1 hour ago|||
More likely 99.9% of users never press ctrl+o to see the thinking, so they don't consider it important enough to make a setting out of.
Kiboneu 3 hours ago|||
If they cared about that, they wouldn't expose the thinking blocks to the end-user client in the first place; they'd have the user-side context store hashes to the blocks (stored server-side) instead.
tmaly 1 hour ago|||
I thought the source code for the actual CLI was closed source. How are you patching it?
Aeolun 5 minutes ago||
Claude code can reverse engineer it to a degree. Doing it for more than a single version is a PITA though. Easier to build you own client over their SDK.
TIPSIO 3 hours ago|||
To be fair they have like 10,000 open issues / spam issues, it's probably insane out there for them to filter all of it haha
0xbadcafebee 3 hours ago|||
GitHub Issues as a customer support funnel is horrible. It's easy for them, but it hides all the important bugs and only surfaces "wanted features" that are thumbs-up'd alot. So you see "Highlight text X" as the top requested feature; meanwhile, 10% of users experience a critical bug, but they don't all find "the github issue" one user poorly wrote about it, so it has like 7 upvotes.

GitHub Codespaces has a critical bug that makes the copilot terminal integration unusable after 1 prompt, but the company has no idea, because there is no clear way to report it from the product, no customer support funnel, etc. There's 10 upvotes on a poorly-written sorta-related GH issue and no company response. People are paying for this feature and it's just broken.

sumedh 1 hour ago||||
Maybe they can use AI to figure out which ones are actually useful and which ones are not.
rrrix1 3 hours ago|||
Humans don't look at these anymore, Claude itself does. They've even said so.
resiros 3 hours ago|||
Honestly, just use OpenCode. It works with Claude Code Max, and the TUI is 100x better. The only thing that sucks is Compaction.
kakugawa 3 hours ago|||
How much longer is Anthropic going to allow OpenCode to use Pro/Max subscriptions? Yes, it's technically possible, but it's against Anthropic's ToS. [1]

1: https://blog.devgenius.io/you-might-be-breaking-claudes-tos-...

exitb 3 hours ago|||
Consider switching to an OpenAI subscription, which allows OpenCode use.
Aeolun 3 minutes ago||
Yeah. OpenAI allows any client, and only one single fixed system prompt. All their control is on the backend, which is worse than Claude.
azinman2 3 hours ago||||
Doesn’t Claude code have an agents sdk that officially allows you to use the good parts?
killingtime74 3 hours ago||
Yes but you can't use a subscription with that
almosthere 2 hours ago|||
There are also Azure versions of Opus
mightybyte 3 hours ago||||
I have been unable to use OpenCode with my Claude Max subscription. It worked for awhile, but then it seems like Anthropic started blocking it.
azinman2 3 hours ago||||
What’s 100x better about the TUI?
prmph 3 hours ago|||
Nope, OpenCode is nowhere near Claude Code.

It's amazing how much other agentic tools suck in comparison to Claude Code. I'd love to have a proper alternative. But they all suck. I keep trying them every few months and keep running back to Claude Code.

Just yesterday I installed Cursor and Codex, and removed both after a few hours.

Cursor disrespected my setting to ask before editing files. Codex renamed my tabs after I had named them. It also went ahead and edited a bunch of my files after a fresh install without asking me. The heck, the default behavior should have been to seek permission at least the first time.

OpenCode does not allow me to scrollback and edit a prior prompt for reuse. It also keeps throwing up all kinds of weird errors, especially when I'm trying to use free or lower cost models.

Gemini CLI reads strange Python files when I'm working on a Node.js project, what the heck. It also never fixed the diff display issues in the terminal; It's always so difficult for me to actually see what edits it is actually trying to make before it makes it. It also frequently throws random internal errors.

At this point, I'm not sure we'll be seeing a proper competitor to Claude Code anytime soon.

mightybyte 2 hours ago|||
Hmmm, I used OpenCode for awhile and didn't have this experience. I felt like OpenCode was the better experience.
Implicated 2 hours ago||
Same, I still use CC mainly due to it being so wildly better at compaction. The overall experience of using OpenCode was far superior - especially with the LSP configured.
viking123 2 hours ago|||
5.3 Codex on cursor is better than Claude code
lizardking 2 hours ago||
Not in my (limited) experience. I gave CC and codex detailed instructions for reworking a UI, and codex did a much worse job and took 5x as long to finish.
bonoboTP 2 hours ago||
I think it's more classic enshittification. Currently, as a percentage, still not many devs use it. In a few months or 1-2 years all these products will start to cater to the median developer and start to get dumbed down.
Robdel12 2 hours ago||
I’m a heavy Claude code user and it’s pretty clear they’re starting to bend under their vibe coding. Each Claude code update breaks a ton of stuff, has perf issues, etc.

And then this. They want to own your dev workflow and for some reason believe Claude code is special enough to be closed source. The react TUI is kinda a nightmare to deal with I bet.

I will say, very happy with the improvements made to Codex 5.3. I’ve been spending A LOT more time with codex and the entire agent toolchain is OSS.

Not sure what anthropic’s plan is, but I haven’t been a fan of their moves in the past month and a half.

4b11b4 1 hour ago||
Yeah, I can feel it too, it _mostly_ works but.. feels like it needs a rewrite.

for example Amp "feels" much better. Also like in Amp how I can just send the message whenever and it doesn't get queued

* I know, lots of "feels" in there..

binsquare 2 hours ago|||
Same, codex 5.3 was able to solve a problem that I personally was stuck on even with help from Claude for the last 2 weeks.
viking123 2 hours ago||
I switched to Codex 5.3 too, it's cheaper also anyway and as dumb as it sounds, Scam Altman is actually the less annoying CEO compared to Amodei which is kind of an achievement. Amodei really looking more and more like some huckster giving these idiotic predictions to the press.
amai 1 hour ago|||
OpenAI’s president is a Trump mega-donor

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46771231

noosphr 1 hour ago||
>Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

Sam wants money. Dario wants to be your dad.

I'm going with Sam.

amai 4 minutes ago||
The article is about Greg Brockman, president of OpenAI.
Der_Einzige 1 hour ago|||
Scam Altman is Epstein tier: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6lq6x2gd9o

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/08/technology/sam-altman-sis...

tern 3 hours ago||
Claude's brand is sliding dangerously close to "the Microsoft of AI."

DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS

I write mainly out of the hope that some Anthropic employees read this: you need an internal crusade to fight these impulses. Take the high road in the short-term and you may avoid being disrupted in the long-term. It's a culture issue.

Probably your strongest tool is specifically educating people about the history. Microsoft in the late 90s and early 00s was completely dominant, but from today's perspective it's very clear: they made some fundamental choices that didn't age well. As a result, DX on Windows is still not great, even if Visual Studio has the best features, and people with taste by and large prefer Linux.

Apple made an extremely strategic choice: rebuild the OS around BSD, which set them up to align with Linux (the language of servers). The question is: why? Go find out.

The difference is a matter of sensibility, and a matter of allowing that sensibility to exist and flourish in the business.

mrandish 1 hour ago||
> you need an internal crusade to fight these impulses. Take the high road in the short-term...

Anthropic is the market leader for advanced AI coding with no serious competitor currently very close and they are preparing to IPO this year. This year is a transition year. The period where every decision would default toward delighting users and increasing perceived value is ending. By next year they'll be fully on the quarterly Wall Street grind of min/maxing every decision to extract the highest possible profit from customers at the lowest possible cost.

This path is inevitable and unavoidable, even with the most well-intentioned management and employees.

mightybyte 3 hours ago|||
The thing that annoys me most of all is they block me from using OpenCode with my Claude Max plan. I find the OpenCode UI to be meaningfully better than Claude Code's, so this is really annoying.
marinhero 1 hour ago|||
Some workarounds are here https://github.com/anomalyco/opencode/issues/7410 but I agree with you, this should be a native feature.
seeEllArr 2 hours ago|||
if you are an expert developer smarter than everyone at anthropic, like everyone else commenting on this post, you'll know that it's not difficult to use the claude agent sdk behind an api to achieve almost exactly the same thing
NewsaHackO 2 hours ago||
Huh? Why wouldn’t developers (who probably have stock options in Claude) try to prevent becoming 'the Microsoft of AI'? That's probably what they are actively trying to do.
tern 14 minutes ago|||
This take is overly cynical. Every major corporation has people with influence who care and fight for good outcomes. They win some fights, they lose others. The only evidence you need is to notice the needlessly good decisions that were made in the past.

Some greatest hits:

- CoreAudio, Mac OS memory management, kernel in general, and many other decisions

- Google's internal dev tooling, Go, and Chrome (at least, in its day)

- C#, .NET, and Typescript (even Microsoft does good work)

One of the hallmarks of heroic engineering work is that everyone takes it for granted afterward. Open source browsers that work, audio that just works, successors to C/C++ with actual support and adoption, operating systems that respond gracefully under load, etc. ... none of these things were guaranteed, or directly aligned with short-term financial incentives. Now, we just assume they're a requirement.

Part of the "sensibility" I'm talking about is seeking to build things that are so boring and reliable that nobody notices them anymore.

yfw 2 hours ago|||
Your incentive is to stay in the job so you can vest. Fighting the slide may just make enemies
stillpointlab 2 hours ago||
I'm old, so I remember when Skyrim came out. At the time, people were howling about how "dumbed down" the RPG had become compared to previous versions. They had simplified so many systems. Seemed to work out for them overall.

I understand the article writers frustration. He liked a thing about a product he uses and they changed the product. He is feeling angry and he is expressing that anger and others are sharing in that.

And I'm part of another group of people. I would notice the files being searched without too much interest. Since I pay a monthly rate, I don't care about optimizing tokens. I only care about the quality of the final output.

I think the larger issue is that programmers are feeling like we are losing control. At first we're like, I'll let it auto-complete but no more. Then it was, I'll let it scaffold a project but not more. Each step we are ceding ground. It is strange to watch someone finally break on "They removed the names of the files the agent was operating on". Of all of the lost points of control this one seems so trivial. But every camels back has a breaking point and we can't judge the straw that does it.

root_axis 2 hours ago||
If you're paying a monthly rate you still have to optimize for tokens, otherwise you'll be rate limited.
kingkawn 1 hour ago||
And not just by the day! The weekly limits are the biggest mistake imaginable for maintaining user engagement on a project.
bakugo 1 hour ago|||
> Seemed to work out for them overall.

I'm guessing you're not aware of how their newest game, Starfield, was received. In the long term, that direction did not work out for them at all.

Der_Einzige 1 hour ago||
Skyrim is one of the most over-rated games of all time. Dark Messiah Might and Magic did everything except music and exploration/scale better, and I mean a LOT better. It's from 2006.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p3zj0YKKYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRUHzYJwNE

joshstrange 1 hour ago||
> Skyrim is one of the most over-rated games of all time.

Those are fightin’ words as someone who has dumped more hours than I can count into Skyrim but…

I had never heard of this game, but it has a lot going for it (source engine) and I watched a little of the gameplay you linked and I’m intrigued. I’m probably gonna pick this up for the steam deck.

A friend recommended the Might and Magic games to me a long time ago and I bought them off GoG, but wasn’t a fan of the gameplay and just couldn’t get hooked. This looks very different from what I remember (probably because this is a very different game from the earlier ones).

Thank you for mentioning this game!

jascha_eng 4 hours ago||
There are a lot of non developer claude code users these days. The hype about vibe coding lets everyone think they can now be an engineer. Problem is if anthropic caters to that crowd the devs that are using it to do somewhat serious engineering tasks and don't believe in the "run an army of parallel agents and pray" methodology are being alienated.

Maybe Claude Code web or desktop could be targeted to these new vibe coders instead? These folks often don't know how simple bash commands work so the terminal is the wrong UX anyway. Bash as a tool is just very powerful for any agentic experience.

pjm331 4 hours ago||
It’s funny because on one end of the spectrum you have non dev vibe coders for whom every log is noise

On the other end are the hardcore user orchestrating a bunch of agents, not sitting there watching one run, so they don’t care about these logs at all

In the middle are the engineers sitting there watching the agent go

rrrix1 3 hours ago|||
Logs (and in this case, Verbose Mode) aren't for knowing what a thing is currently doing as its doing it, it's for finding out what happened when the thing didn't do what you expected or wanted.
jeffybefffy519 3 hours ago|||
The non dev vibe coders are probably a bigger group of users, and therefore equal more money. Change justified...
NinjaTrance 3 hours ago||
The others are also paying. Make it configurable...
sixtyj 4 hours ago|||
If 80% of their paying customers are vibe coders then it makes sense to make IDE “easy” for them. “Hey, Claude, make a website. Don’t make mistakes.”

Or, it could serve as a textbook example how to make your real future long term customers (=fluent coders) angry… what a strategy :)

NinjaTrance 2 hours ago||
Microsoft fell into this trap in the 90s -- they believed that they could hide the DOS prompt, and make everything "easier" with wizards where you just go through a series of screens clicking "next", "next", "finish".

Yes, it was easier. But it dumbed down a generation of developers.

It took them two decades to try to come up with Powershell, but it was too late.

WXLCKNO 4 hours ago|||
Exactly how I feel. I'm happy that more people are using these tools and learning (hopefully) about engineering but it shouldn't degrade the core experience for let's say "more advanced" users who don't see themselves as Vibe coders and want precise control over what's happening.
jonahx 3 hours ago|||
> learning (hopefully) about engineering

Not a chance.

If anything, the reverse, in that it devalues engineering. For most, LLMs are a path to an end-product without the bother or effort of understanding. No different than paid engineers were, but even better because you don't have to talk to engineers or pay them.

The sparks of genuine curiosity here are a rounding error.

croes 3 hours ago|||
If I give pupils the solution book will they learn or just copy the answers?

There is a reason why nowadays games start to help massively if the player gets stuck.

lukan 2 hours ago||
"There is a reason why nowadays games start to help massively if the player gets stuck"

You mean those "free" games, that are hard and grindy by design and the offered help comes in the shape of payed perks to solve the challenges?

croes 2 hours ago||
No, those paid games where NPCs starts to point to clues if the player takes too long to solve a riddle or where you can skip the hard parts if you fail to often.
jollyllama 3 hours ago|||
Run an army of parallel agents is orders of magnitude more profit per human, so they will tend to steer you towards that.
MattGaiser 4 hours ago|||
Anecdotally, all the non-technical people I know are adapting fine to the console. You don’t need to know how bash commands work to use it as you are just approving commands, not writing them.
fcatalan 3 hours ago||
Approving commands you don't understand doesn't seem ideal
operatingthetan 3 hours ago||
People are handing over their entire system to openclaw, so that's about where we are.
system2 2 hours ago||
Because we haven't heard about the disaster stories yet, give it some time and see how people will talk about it as if it were a virus.
cmrdporcupine 4 hours ago|||
I think Dario & crew are getting high on their own supply and really believe the "software developers out of work by end of 2026" pronouncements.

Meanwhile all evidence is that the true value of these tools is in their ability to augment & super-charge competent software engineers, not replace them.

Meanwhile the quality of Claude Code the tool itself is a bit of a damning indictment of their philosophy.

Give me a team of experienced sharp diligent engineers with these coding tools and we can make absolutely amazing things. But newbie product manager with no software engineering fundamentals issuing prompts will make a mess.

I can see it even in my own work -- when I venture into doing frontend eng using these tools the results look good but often have reliability issues. Because my background/specialization is in systems, embedded & backend work -- I'm not good at reviewing the React etc code it makes.

viking123 2 hours ago|||
Amodei has to be the most insufferable of all the AI hucksters, nowadays even Altman looks tame compared to him.

The whole company also has this meme about AI safety and some sort of fear-mongering about the models every few months. It's basically a smokescreen for normies and other midwits to make it look more mysterious and advanced than it really is. OOOOH IT'S GOING TO BREAK OUT! IT KNOWS IT'S BEING EVALUATED!

I bet there are some true believers in Anthropic too, people who think themselves too smart to believe in God so they replaced it with AI instead but all the same hopes are there, eg. Amodei preaching about AI doubling the human lifespan. In religion we usually talk about heaven.

cmrdporcupine 2 hours ago||
Just 1 more data center build, man! A few more megawatts and double the context window and it's AGI!

I just want useful tools.

co_king_3 4 hours ago|||
[flagged]
organsnyder 3 hours ago|||
I've seen real gains in productivity using it. Nowhere near the 10x some people are promising, though, let alone replacing me.
akdev1l 3 hours ago|||
don’t worry bro in 6 months it will replace all devs

just 6 months more and like $200B in capex and we’ll be there, trust the process

croes 3 hours ago|||
And even if there are lots of vibe coders who don’t like/need the information then make it a toggle for those who want/need it
seeEllArr 2 hours ago||
[dead]
ramon156 4 hours ago||
All my information about this is being based on feels, because debugging isn't really feasible. Verbose mode is a mess, and there's no alternative.

It still does what I need so I'm okay with it, but I'm also on the $20 plan so it's not that big of a worry for me.

I did sense that the big wave of companies is hitting Anthropic's wallet. If you hadn't realized, a LOT of companies switched to Claude. No idea why, and this is coming from someone who loves Claude Code.

Anyway, getting some transparency on this would be nice.

minimaxir 4 hours ago||
> If you hadn't realized, a LOT of companies switched to Claude. No idea why, and this is coming from someone who loves Claude Code.

It is entirely due to Opus 4.5 being an inflection point codingwise over previous LLMs. Most of the buzz there has been organic word of mouth due to how strong it is.

Opus 4.5 is expensive to put it mildly, which makes Claude Code more compelling. But even now, token providers like Openrouter have Opus 4.5 as one of its most popular models despite the price.

theappsecguy 4 hours ago|||
Everyone and I mean everyone keeps parroting this "inflection point" marketing hype, which is so damn tiring.
minimaxir 3 hours ago|||
Believe me, I wish it was just parroting.

The real annoying thing about Opus 4.5 is that it's impossible to publicly say "Opus 4.5 is an order of magnitude better than coding LLMs released just months before it" without sounding like a AI hype booster clickbaiting, but it's the counterintuitive truth, to my personal frustration.

I have been trying to break this damn model since its November release by giving it complex and seemingly impossible coding tasks but this asshole keeps doing them correctly. GPT-5.3-Codex has been the same relative to GPT-5.2-Codex, which just makes me even more frustrated.

Denzel 30 minutes ago|||
Weird, I broke Opus 4.5 pretty easily by giving some code, a build system, and integration tests that demonstrate the bug.

CC confidently iterated until it discovered the issue. CC confidently communicated exactly what the bug was, a detailed step-by-step deep dive into all the sections of the code that contributed to it. CC confidently suggested a fix that it then implemented. CC declared victory after 10 minutes!

The bug was still there.

I’m willing to admit I might be “holding it wrong”. I’ve had some successes and failures.

It’s all very impressive, but I still have yet to see how people are consistently getting CC to work for hours on end to produce good work. That still feels far fetched to me.

viking123 2 hours ago|||
It still cannot solve a synchronization issue in my fairly simple online game, completely wrong analysis back to back and solutions that actually make the problem worse. Most training data is probably react slop so it struggles with this type of stuff.

But I have to give it to Amodei and his goons in the media, their marketing is top notch. Fear-mongering targeted to normies about the model knowing it is being evaluated and other sort of preaching to the developers.

tristor 11 minutes ago||||
Not hype. Opus 4.5 is actually useful to one-shot things from detailed prompts for documentation creation, it's actually functional for generating code in a meaningful way. Unfortunately it's been nerfed, and Opus 4.6 is clearly worse from my few days of working with it since release.
keybored 3 hours ago||||
But I used to be a skeptic but now in the last month
mwigdahl 2 hours ago||
Yes, as all of modern politics illustrates, once one has staked out a position on an issue it is far more important to stick to one's guns regardless of observations rather than update based on evidence.
keybored 26 minutes ago||
I will change my mind on this in the next month.
Spivak 3 hours ago|||
The use of inflection point in the entire software industry is so annoying and cringy. It's never used correctly, it's not even used correctly in the Claude post everyone is referencing.
minimaxir 3 hours ago||
What euphemism better describes the trend?
delusional 3 hours ago|||
If it's a trend, there's not an inflection point. The inflection point would be a point where the trend breaks.
deagle50 2 hours ago|||
step function
madeofpalk 2 hours ago|||
No, I just think that timing wise it finally made it through everyone’s procurement process.
taude 4 hours ago|||
I can't watch a YouTube video without seeing a Claude ad. Same for friends. Safe for non-programmer friends.
pbasista 3 hours ago|||
The below remark is unrelated to the main topic of this thread.

Why would you even watch a YouTube video with ads?

There are ad blockers, sponsor segment blockers, etc. If you use them, it will block almost every kind of YouTube ad.

taude 1 hour ago|||
all the ad blockers I used to use stop working, and it became an annoying game of cat and mouse that I didn't have time for. Luckily, most of the time I can "skip" the ad in like five seconds, and it gives me a moment to catch up on incoming Slack messages.
massysett 2 hours ago|||
I used to use ad blockers.

One day I visited DistroWatch.com. The site deliberately tweaked its images so ad blockers would block some "good" images. It took me awhile to figure out what was going on. The site freely admitted what it was doing. The site's point was: you're looking at my site, which I provide for free, yet you block the thing that lets me pay for the site?

I stopped using ad blockers after that. If a site has content worth paying for, I pay. If it is a horrible ad-infested hole, I don't visit it at all. Otherwise, I load ads.

Which overall means I pay for more things and visit less crap things and just visit less things period. Which is good.

akdev1l 1 hour ago||
Not safe, before even knowing if a site has the content you want you can be redirected to malware through ad networks

not even joking

massysett 39 minutes ago||
On an up to date Safari on Mac, not a realistic concern, and if it were, I’d use security software, not an ad blocker.
akdev1l 31 minutes ago||
0 days exist and they are exploited in the wild sometimes

An ad-blocker /is/ security software. You don’t have to take it from me, you can read from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency

> AT-A-GLANCE RECOMMENDATIONS

> Standardize and Secure Web Browsers

> Deploy Advertisement Blocking Software

> Isolate Web Browsers from Operating Systems

> Implement Protective Domain Name System Technologies

Literally their second recommendation on this pamphlet about securing web browsers: https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Capaci...

Moreover you don’t even need a 0-day to fall for phishing. All you need is to be a little tired or somehow not paying attention (inb4 “it will never happen to ME, I am too smart for that”)

sixtyj 4 hours ago||||
NFT moment :) Where did it end btw?
viking123 2 hours ago||||
They have insane marketing push, across HN and reddit too btw.
ReptileMan 3 hours ago|||
I can. I use brave
athrowaway3z 3 hours ago|||
> and there's no alternative.

Use the pi coding agent. Bare-bones context, easy to hack.

co_king_3 4 hours ago||
[flagged]
CubsFan1060 4 hours ago|||
This has to be a bot account, right? 2 days old.

Yesterday "I don't know about you, but I benefit so much from using Claude at work that I would gladly pay $1,500-$2,000 per month to keep using it."

burnte 4 hours ago|||
Agreed, those comments are all over the map, and so many comments in 2 days!
burnte 4 hours ago||||
Agreed, those comments are all over the map, and 22 comments in 2 days!
co_king_3 4 hours ago|||
Bots don't write like me
verelo 4 hours ago||||
> FWIW I think LLMs are a dead end for software development

Thanks for that, and it's worth nothing FYI.

LLMs are probably the most impressive machine made in recorded human existence. Will there be a better machine? I'm 100% confident there will be, but this is without a doubt extremely valuable for a wide array of fields, including software development. Anyone claiming otherwise is just pretending at this point, maybe out of fear and/or hope, but it's a distorted view of reality.

palebluedot 4 hours ago||||
> FWIW I think LLMs are a dead end for software development, and that the people who think otherwise are exceptionally gullible.

By this do you mean there isn't much more room for future improvement, or that you feel it is not useful in its current form for software development? I think the latter is hard position to defend, speaking as a user of it. I am definitely more productive with it now, although I'm not sure I enjoy software development as much anymore (but that is a different topic)

co_king_3 4 hours ago||
> By this do you mean there isn't much more room for future improvement

I don't expect that LLM technology will improve in a way that makes it significantly better . I think the training pool is poisoned, and I suspect that the large AI labs have been cooking the benchmark data for years to suspect that their models are improving more quickly than they are in reality.

That being said, I'm sure some company will figure out new strategies for deploying LLMs that will cause a significant improvement.

But I don't expect that improvements are going to come from increased training.

> [Do] you feel it is not useful in its current form for software development?

IME using LLMs for software development corrodes my intuitive understanding of an enterprise codebase.

Since the advent of LLMs, I've been asked to review many sloppy 500+/1000+ line spam PRs written by arrogant Kool-Aid drinking coworkers. If someone is convinced that Claude Code is AGI, they won't hesitate to drop a slop bomb on you.

Basically I feel that coding using LLMs degrades my understanding of what I'm working on and enables coworkers to dominate my day with spam code review requests.

palebluedot 3 hours ago|||
> IME using LLMs for software development corrodes my intuitive understanding of an enterprise codebase.

I feel you there, I definitely notice that. I find I can output high quality software with it (if I control the design and planning, and iterate), but I lack that intuitive feel I get about how it all works in practice. Especially noticeable when debugging; I have fewer "Oh! I bet I know what is going on!" eureka moments.

knodi 3 hours ago|||
This is a bot.
ako 4 hours ago||||
I don’t understand how you can conclude that LLMs are a dead end: I’ve already seen so much useful software generated by LLMs, there’s no denying that they are a useful tool. They may not replace seniors developers, and they have their limitations, but it’s quite amazing what they already do achieve.
co_king_3 4 hours ago||
Have you seen all the dogshit software generated by LLMs?
arealaccount 4 hours ago||||
I notice and think about the astroturfing from time to time.

It seems so gross.

But I guess with all of the trillions of investor dollars being dumped into the businesses, it would be irresponsible to not run guerrilla PR campaigns

taurath 4 hours ago||||
> FWIW I think LLMs are a dead end for software development, and that the people who think otherwise are exceptionally gullible.

I think this takes away from the main thrust of your argument which is the marketing campaign and to me makes you seem conspiratorial minded. LLMs can be both useful and also mass astroturfing can be happening.

Personally I have witnessed non coders (people who can code a little but have not done any professional software building) like my spouse do some pretty amazing things. So I don’t think it’s useless.

It can be all of:

1. It’s useful for coding

2. There’s mass social media astroturfing happening

3. There’s a massive social overhype train that should be viewed skeptically

4. Theres some genuine word of mouth and developer demand to try the latest models out of curiosity, with some driven by the hype train and irrational exuberance and some by fear for their livelihoods.

co_king_3 4 hours ago||
I'm not trying to be rhetorically effective, I'm stating my true belief

IN MY GENUINELY HELD OPINION, LLMs generate shit code and the people who disagree don't know what good code looks like.

snek_case 4 hours ago||||
LLMs are super efficient at generating boilerplate for lots of APIs, which is a time consuming and tedious part of programming.
co_king_3 4 hours ago|||
> LLMs are super efficient at generating boilerplate for lots of APIs

Yes they are. This is true.

> which is a time consuming and tedious part of programming.

In my experience, this is a tedious part of programming which I do not spend very much time on.

In my experience LLM generated API boilerplate is acceptable, yet still sloppier than anything I would write by hand.

In my experience LLMs are quite bad at generating essentially every other type of code, especially if you are not generating JS/TS or HTML/CSS.

cfiggers 4 hours ago|||
> They are aggressively manipulating social media with astroturfed accounts, in particular this site and Reddit.
cindyllm 4 hours ago|||
[dead]
qwertox 2 hours ago||
I absolutely love reading thoughts and see the commands it uses. It teaches me new stuff, and I think this is what young people need: be able to know WHAT it is doing and WHY it is doing it. And have the ability to discuss with another agent about what the agent and me are trying to archive, and we can ask them questions we have without disturbing the flow, but seeing the live output.

Regarding the thoughts: it also allows me to detect problematic paths it takes, like when it can't find a file.

For example today I was working on a project that depends on another project, managed by another agent. While refactoring my code it noticed that it needs to see what this command is which it is invoking, so it even went so far as to search through vs code's user data to find the recent files history if it can find out more about that command... I stopped it and told it that if it has problems, it should tell me. It explained it can't find that file, i gave it the paths and tokens were saved. Note that in that session I was manually approving all commands, but then rejected the one in the data dir.

Why dumb it down?

svnt 2 hours ago|
They don’t seem to realize that doing vibe coding requires enough information to get the vibes.

There are no vibes in “I am looking at files and searching for things” so I have zero weight to assign to your decision quality up until the point where it tells me the evals passed at 100%.

Your agent is not good enough. I trust it like I trust a toddler not to fall into a swimming pool. It’s not trying to, but enough time around the pool and it is going to happen, so I am watching the whole time, and I might even let it fall in if I think it can get itself out.

nektro 1 hour ago|
the definition of vibe coding is that you never check what it's doing, you only check its output; eg the actual website/feature you're having it build.
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