Major European payment processor can't send email to Google Workspace users

Posted by thatha7777 17 hours ago

Major European payment processor can't send email to Google Workspace users(atha.io)

483 points | 320 commentspage 6

gethly 15 hours ago|

Google NOT following the spec is not surprising. SHOULD does not mean MUST and they are completely in the wrong here.

thatha7777 11 hours ago|

The definition of SHOULD is "This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular item, but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different course."

I suspect viva.com didn't consider the full implications, and I suspect Google did some hard math on hours saved for their customers

shevy-java 16 hours ago||

The bigger issue here is that Europe depends way too much on the USA in so many areas. This is not good - you can be constantly blackmailed when you have people such as Trump in charge. I don't think the EU can be fixed, but at the same time I also think the less Europeans depend on outside factors (in particular the USA) the better. Canada kind of showed how to do it. Granted, Canada is also dependent on the USA in numerous ways and most of this is hard to fix (most Canadians live in the south aka close to the USA and trade is primarily done via the USA; security has also been largely outsourced onto the USA and so forth). The sooner people in Canada and Europe get moving away towards more independence from the USA, the better. And more cooperation would not harm either.

thatha7777 15 hours ago|

As a European (who spent 15 years in the US), I coudln't agree more. And while I agree, at the end of the day, I just want the better product for me.

egorfine 17 hours ago||

This bug will not be fixed before the Environmental Impact Study is concluded on it.

hughw 15 hours ago||

Postel’s Law would put the onus on Google to be forgiving in what it receives. Unsure how you could safely use a sender-created Message-Id for anything anyway.

joshuaissac 15 hours ago||

Following Postel's law results in the normalisation and proliferation of defective implementations. The actual standard becomes irrelevant, and new implementations have to be coded against the defective ones.

My opinion is that Postel's law should be approached in the same way that Linus Torvalds did CVS when designing Git. If in doubt about an implementation decision, consider what Postel's law would recommend, and then do the exact opposite.

lokar 15 hours ago||

That “law” if from a different time, before protocols like SMTP became adversarial. It assumed everyone was acting in good faith.

bell-cot 15 hours ago||

Yep. And even a world of perfect good faith, "forgiving in what you receive" has both costs and scaling problems - from researching what "spec" you'll need to design to, to customer service when the added complexity and permissiveness cause interesting stuff to happen.

peter_retief 14 hours ago||

I offered to host a friends business email on my DO instance. Works 99% of the time but every now and then emails just disappear only to find out that MS and Apple block DO IP addresses, sometimes. Silently. There is a war on small email providers it seems.

Avamander 14 hours ago|

The biggest war on small providers is waged by other small providers. They can be ancient and outdated or simply extremely picky. Which makes everything Google or others require a piece of cake, which it actually kinda is.

golem14 10 hours ago|

Hilarious - German users lecturing Google on how to interpret the English RFC?

I say this lovingly, having significant German ancestry:)

But taking a step back :

did viva previously send message ids and pushed a change to prod to strip it? Was it on purpose or an accident?

And other email providers like proton or Hotmail - do they accept messages without message ids?

Have other clients of Google workspace complained about this issue?