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Posted by minimalthinker 11 hours ago

My smart sleep mask broadcasts users' brainwaves to an open MQTT broker(aimilios.bearblog.dev)
325 points | 166 commentspage 3
dlenski 5 hours ago|
I discovered a very similar vulnerability in Mysa smart thermostats a year ago, also involving MQTT, and also allowing me to view and control anyone's thermostat anywhere in the world: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43392991

Also discovered during reverse-engineering of the devices’ communications protocols.

IoT device security is an utterly shambolic mess.

stevage 4 hours ago||
That is terrifying. Messing with thermostats could be enough to kill vulnerable people.
dlenski 3 hours ago||
Yes. An excerpt from my initial email to Mysa's security contact…

> I stumbled upon these vulnerabilities on one of the coldest days of this winter in Vancouver. An attacker using them could have disabled all Mysa-connected heaters in the America/Vancouver timezone in the middle of the night. That would include the heat in the room where my 7-month-old son sleeps.

minimalthinker 5 hours ago||
I’m not super familiar with MQTT. I wonder how common this is..
dlenski 4 hours ago||
MQTT is a very simple pub/sub messaging protocol.

It's used in a enormous number of IoT devices.

The "IoT gateway" service from AWS supports MQTT and a whole lot of IoT devices are tethered to this service specifically.

skibz 7 hours ago||
It's disappointing to see. It doesn't take much work to configure a MQTT server to require client certificates for all connections. It does require an extra step in provisioning to give each device a client certificate. But for a commercial product, it's inexcusably negligent.

Then there's hardening your peripheral and central device/app against the kinds of spoofing attacks that are described in this blog post.

If your peripheral and central device can securely [0] store key material, then (in addition to the standard security features that come with the Bluetooth protocol) one may implement mutual authentication between the central and peripheral devices and, optionally, encryption of the data that is transmitted across that connection.

Then, as long as your peripheral and central devices are programmed to only ever respond when presented with signatures that can be verified by a trusted public key, the spoofing and probing demonstrated here simply won't work (unless somebody reverse engineers the app running on the central device to change its behaviour after the signature verification has been performed).

To protect against that, you'd have to introduce server-mediated authorisation. On Android, that would require things like the Play Integrity API and app signatures. Then, if the server verifies that the instance of the app running on the central device is unmodified, it can issue a token that the central device can send to the peripheral for verification in addition to the signatures from the previous step.

Alternatively, you could also have the server generate the actual command frames that the central device sends to the peripheral. The server would provide the raw command frame and the command frame signed with its own key, which can be verified by the peripheral.

I guess I got a bit carried away here. Certainly, not every peripheral needs that level of security. But, into which category this device falls, I'm not sure. On the one hand, it's not a security device, like an electronic door lock. And on the other hand, it's a very personal peripheral with some unusual capabilities like the electrical muscle stimulation gizmo and the room occupancy sensor.

[0]: Like with the Android KeyStore and whichever HSMs are used in microcontrollers, so that keys can't be extracted by just dumping strings from a binary.

SilentM68 8 hours ago||
Interesting project. Here's a thought which I've always had in the back of my mind, ever since I saw something similar in an episode of Buck Rogers (70s-80s)! Many people struggle with falling asleep due to persistent beta waves; natural theta predominance is needed but often delayed. Imagine an "INEXPENSIVE" smart sleep mask that facilitates sleep onset by inducing brain wave transitions from beta (wakeful, high-frequency) to alpha (8-13 Hz, relaxed) and then theta (4-8 Hz, stage 1 light sleep) via non-invasive stimulation. A solution could be a comfortable eye mask with integrated headphones (unintrusive) and EEG sensors. It could use binaural beats or similar audio stimulation to "inject" alpha/theta frequencies externally, guiding the brain to a tipping point for abrupt sleep onset. Sensors would detect current waves; app-controlled audio ramps from alpha-inducing beats to theta, ensuring natural predominance. If it could be designed, it could accelerate sleep transition, improve quality, non-pharmacological.
BenjiWiebe 8 hours ago||
So are the brain waves the cause or the effect?

Are beta waves a sign that my mind is racing and wide awake, or are they the reason?

SilentM68 2 hours ago||
Don't know but as AI advances, questions like that may get easier to answer.
Jolter 8 hours ago||
What’s your proposed mechanism for how audio waves would induce brain waves?
pixl97 3 hours ago|||
No idea about audio frequencies close to hearing, but I'm pretty sure it's common to manipulate the brain with ultrasonic frequencies these days.
SilentM68 2 hours ago||
Yeah, I'm sure that technology has existed for decades. Common folks just not allowed to know about it. It's "for our own good!" sarcastically speaking :(
SilentM68 2 hours ago|||
That's a toughie, but if it were me and I had the energy, I'd start by looking at the following patents:

- US20030171688A1: Mind controller - Induces alpha/theta brainwaves via audio messages. - US20070084473A1: Brain wave entrainment in sound - Modulates music for desired brain states. - US11309858: Inducing brainwaves by sound - Adjusts volume gains for specific frequencies. - US5036858A: Changing brain wave frequency - Generates binaural beats to alter waves. - US3951134: Remotely altering brain waves - Monitors and modifies via RF/EM waves. - US5306228A: Brain wave synchronizer - Uses light/sound for entrainment. - US6587729: RF hearing effect - Transmits speech via microwaves to brain. - US6488617: Desired brain state - Electromagnetic pulses for mind states. - US4858612: Microwave hearing simulation - Induces sounds in auditory cortex. - US6930235B2: EM to sound waves - Relates waves for brain influence. - EP0747080A1: Brain wave inducing - Sine waves via speaker for alpha waves. - US5954629A: Brain wave system - Feedback light stimulation. - US5954630A: FM theta sound - Superposes low frequencies for theta induction. - US5159703A: Silent subliminal - Ultrasonic carriers for brain inducement. - US6017302A: Acoustic manipulation - Subaudio pulses for nervous system control.

t3chd33r 5 hours ago||
Is this some kind of joke? Claude hallucinated everything, including capacity of device to accurately measure EGG of brain waves and hallucinated the process of decoding APK to some paranoidal user who has posted his conspiracy level AI hallucinations “finds” to his blog post and everyone is like “Yeah, Claude can do this”. Is everyone here insane? I am insane?
ThouYS 7 hours ago||
the headlines these days
bobim 10 hours ago||
Won't they sue for the reverse engineering?
Jolter 8 hours ago|
On what grounds could they sue?
techsocialism 6 hours ago||
"smart sleep mask :D - what next, smart toilet seats? Oh, wait...

Dudes so stupid being tied to tech everywhere.

roywiggins 10 hours ago||
cyberpunk
mystraline 10 hours ago||
> For obvious reasons, I am not naming the product/company here, but have reached out to inform them about the issue.

Coward. The only way to challenge this garbage is "Name and Shame". Light a fire under their asses. That fire can encourage them to do right, and as a warning to all other companies.

My guess is this is Luuna https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flowtimebraintag/luuna

a4isms 10 hours ago||
Doesn't disclosing this to the world at the same time as you disclose it to the company immediately send hundreds of black hats to their terminals to see how much chaos they can create before the company implements a fix?

Perhaps the author is not a coward, but is giving the company time to respond and commit to a fix for the benefit of other owners who could suffer harm.

rkagerer 9 hours ago|||
but is giving the company time to respond and commit to a fix for the benefit of other owners who could suffer harm.

If that's the case then they should have deferred this whole blog post.

mystraline 10 hours ago|||
It took me 30 seconds with ChatGPT by saying:

Identify the kickstarter product talked around in this blog post: (link)

To think some blackhat hasn't already did that is frankly laughable. What I did was like the lowest of low-bars these days.

Barbing 10 hours ago|||
Put the product name in the title & maybe it sends thousands instead of hundreds of blackhats…

We often treat doxxing the same way, prohibiting posting of easily discovered information.

mystraline 10 hours ago||
So your plan is to let the blackhats in the know attack user devices, rather than send out a large warning to "Quit using immediately"?

If we applied this similar analogy to a e.coli infection of foods, your recommendation amounts to "If we say the company name, the company would be shamed and lose money and people might abuse the food".

People need to know this device is NOT SAFE on your network, paired to your phone, or anything. And that requires direct and public notification.

pphysch 9 hours ago|||
And ChatGPT hallucinated a misleading answer that you are confidently regurgitating.
croisillon 9 hours ago||
their original message said "my guess", not ChatGPT's, talk about responsible disclosure...
minimalthinker 10 hours ago|||
I did consider naming, but they were very responsive to the disclosure and I was not entirely familiar with potential legal implications of doing so. (For what it's worth, it is not Luuna)
stavros 9 hours ago||
Please name 50 other companies it's not.

It's good that they were responsive in the disclosure, but it's still a mark of sloppiness that this was done in the first place, and I'd like to know so I can avoid them.

itishappy 10 hours ago|||
I don't see estim mentioned on that website, but I do see a comparison chart with 4 other competitors with similar capabilities to the one you linked.

What makes you think this is the one?

mystraline 10 hours ago||
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law

I said a guess, not absolute.

everdrive 10 hours ago|||
Even if naming and shaming doesn't work, I sure want to know so I can always avoid them for myself and my family. Thanks for the call-out and the educated guess.
j45 9 hours ago|||
EEG devices can cost a lot to own personally as well.

The other side of owning equipment like this is it still could be useful for some for personal and private use.

minimalthinker 8 hours ago||
EEG is very useful for accurate sleep tracking.
hxbdg 10 hours ago||
Presumably they’ll be named and shamed after they’ve been given a chance to fix things.
kevincloudsec 7 hours ago|
The shared hardcoded credentials pattern isn't just an IoT problem. I work in AWS security and see the same thing constantly. Teams hardcode a single set of AWS access keys into their application, share them across every environment, and hope nobody runs strings on the binary. Same logic, same laziness, same outcome.

The difference is when it's a sleep mask, someone reads your brainwaves. When it's a cloud credential, someone reads your customer database. Per-device or per-environment credential provisioning isn't even hard anymore. AWS has IAM roles, IoT has device certificates, MQTT has client certs and topic ACLs. The tooling exists. Companies skip it because key management adds a step to the assembly line and nobody budgets time for security architecture on v1.

roysting 7 hours ago|
> nobody budgets time for security architecture on v1

It’s quite literally why the internet is so insecure, because at many points all along the way, “hey, should we design and architect for security?” is/was met with “no, we have people to impress and careers to advance with parlor tricks to secure more funding; besides, security is hard and we don’t actually know what we are doing, so tow the line or you’ll be removed.”

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