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Posted by Cyphase 23 hours ago

Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126

Related: https://simonwillison.net/2026/Feb/21/claws/

147 points | 581 commentspage 2
mhher 12 hours ago|
The current hype around agentic workflows completely glosses over the fundamental security flaw in their architecture: unconstrained execution boundaries. Tools that eagerly load context and grant monolithic LLMs unrestricted shell access are trivial to compromise via indirect prompt injection.

If an agent is curling untrusted data while holding access to sensitive data or already has sensitive data loaded into its context window, arbitrary code execution isn't a theoretical risk; it's an inevitability.

As recent research on context pollution has shown, stuffing the context window with monolithic system prompts and tool schemas actively degrades the model's baseline reasoning capabilities, making it exponentially more vulnerable to these exact exploits.

kzahel 12 hours ago||
I think this is basically obvious to anyone using one of these but they're just they like the utility trade off like sure it may leak and exfiltrate everything somewhere but the utility of these tools is enough where they just deal with that risk.
mhher 12 hours ago|||
While I understand the premise I think this is a highly flawed way to operate these tools. I wouldn't want to have someone with my personal data (whichever part) that might give it to anyone who just asks nicely because the context window has reached a tipoff point for the models intelligence. The major issue is a prompt attack may have taken place and you will likely never find out.
suprjami 3 hours ago|||
It feels to me there are plenty of people running these because "just trust the AI bro" who are one hallucination away from having their entire bank account emptied.
ramoz 2 hours ago|||
Information Flow Control is highly idealistic unless there are global protocol changes across any sort of integration channel to deem trusted vs untrusted.
dgellow 12 hours ago||
could you share that study?
mhher 12 hours ago|||
https://arxiv.org/abs/2512.13914

Among many more of them with similar results. This one gives a 39% drop in performance.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.18403

This one gives 60-80% after multiple turns.

andai 8 hours ago||
We got store-brand Claw before GTA VI.

For real though, it's not that hard to make your own! NanoClaw boasted 500 lines but the repo was 5000 so I was sad. So I took a stab at it.

Turns out it takes 50 lines of code.

All you need is a few lines of Telegram library code in your chosen language, and `claude -p prooompt`.

With 2 lines more you can support Codex or your favorite infinite tokens thingy :)

https://github.com/a-n-d-a-i/ULTRON/blob/main/src/index.ts

That's it! There are no other source files. (Of course, we outsource the agent, but I'm told you can get an almost perfect result there too with 50 lines of bash... watch this space! (It's true, Claude Opus does better in several coding and computer use benchmarks when you remove the harness.))

botusaurus 3 hours ago|
you need to add cron to have a claw
nunez 2 hours ago||
I guess it's relieving to know that us developers will never get good at naming things!
Angostura 2 hours ago|
Don't worry, Microsoft will eventually name theirs something worse, probably pre-prepended with 'Viva'

... actually, no - they'll just call it Copilot to cause maximum confusion with all the other things called Copilot

yoyohello13 7 hours ago||
I’ve been building my own “OpenClaw” like thing with go-mcp and cloudflare tunnel/email relay. I can send an email to Claude and it will email me back status updates/results. Not as easy to setup as OpenClaw obviously but alt least I know exactly what code is running and what capabilities I’m giving to the LLM.
vivzkestrel 21 hours ago||
I still dont understand the hype for any of this claw stuff
geophph 2 hours ago||
My life is wayyy too basic and simple to need any sort of always available digital agent like these!
yoyohello13 1 hour ago||
I’m actually way happier once I actively started looking to REDUCE the technology in my life.
znzjzjsj 6 hours ago|||
The creator was hired by OpenAI after coincidentally deciding codex was superior to all other harnesses not long before. It’s mostly marketing.

Still an interesting idea but it’s not really novel or difficult. Well, doing it securely would actually be incredibly impressive and worth big $$$.

superfrank 2 hours ago||
The creator has an estimated net worth of $50 million to $200 million prior to Open AI hiring him. If you listen to any interviews with him, doesn't really seem like the type of person who's driven by money and I get the impression that no matter what OpenAI is paying him, his life will remain pretty much unchanged (from a financial perspective at least).

He also still talks very fondly about Claude Code and openly admits it's better at a lot of things, but he thinks Codex fits his development workflow better.

I really, really don't think there's a conspiracy around the Codex thing like you're implying. I know plenty of devs who don't work for OpenAI who prefer Codex ever since 5.2 was released and if you read up a little on Peter Steinberger he really doesn't seem like the type of person who would be saying things like that if he didn't believe them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not fan boy-ing him. He seems like a really quirky dude and I disagree with a ton of his opinions, but I just really don't get the impression that he's driven by money, especially now that he already had more than he could spend in a lifetime.

tovej 2 hours ago||
You're telling me that a person that's greedy enough to have a net worth of several tens of millions doesn't care about money?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

wartywhoa23 42 minutes ago||
Oh, the good old modest selfless millionaire fairytale to inspire modest selfless zeronaires! Never fails.
wartywhoa23 49 minutes ago|||
Please find and read Stanislav Lem's "Washing Machine Tragedy" to get an idea of what's going on here.
stingraycharles 14 hours ago|||
It’s as if ChatGPT is an autonomous agent that can do anything and keeps running constantly.

Most AI tools require supervision, this is the opposite.

To many people, the idea of having an AI always active in the background doing whatever they want them to do is interesting.

thegrim33 6 hours ago|||
How do you need to supervise this "less" than an LLM that you can feed input to and get output back from? What does it mean that it's "running continuously"? Isn't it just waiting for input from different sources and responding to it?

As the person you're replying to feels, I just don't understand. All the descriptions are just random cool sounding words/phrases strung together but none of it actually providing any concrete detail of what it actually is.

phil21 3 hours ago|||
I’m sure there are other ways of doing what I’m doing, but openclaw was the first “package it up and have it make sense” project that captured my imagination enough to begin playing with AI beyond simple copy/paste stuff from chatGPT.

One example from last night: I have openclaw running on a mostly sandboxed NUC on my lab/IoT network at home.

While at dinner someone mentioned I should change my holiday light WLED pattern to St Patrick’s day vs Valentine’s Day.

I just told openclaw (via a chat channel) the wled controller hostname, and to propose some appropriately themes for the holiday, investigate the API, and go ahead and implement the chosen theme plus set it as the active sundown profile.

I came back home to my lights displaying a well chosen pattern I’d never have come up with outside hours of tinkering, and everything configured appropriately.

Went from a chore/task that would have taken me a couple hours of a weekend or evening to something that took 5 minutes or less.

All it was doing was calling out to Codex for this, but it acting as a gateway/mediator/relay for both the access channel part plus tooling/skills/access is the “killer app” part for me.

I also worked with it to come up with a promox VE API skill and it’s now repeatable able to spin up VMS with my normalized defaults including brand new cloud init images of Linux flavors I’ve never configured on that hypervisor before. A chore I hate doing so now I can iterate in my lab much faster. Also is very helpful spinning up dev environments of various software to mess with on those vms after creation.

I haven’t really had it be very useful as a typical “personal assistant” both due to lack of time investment and running against its (lack of) security model for giving it access to comms - but as a “junior sysadmin” it’s becoming quite capable.

fatata123 2 hours ago||
[dead]
maccam912 6 hours ago||||
I don't have one going but I do get the appeal. One example might be that it is prompted behind the scenes every time an email comes in and it sorts it, unsubscribes from spam, other tedious stuff you have to do now that is annoying but necessary. Well that is something running in the background, not necessarily continuously in the sense that it's going every second, but could be invoked at any point in time on an incoming email. That particular use case wouldn't sit well with me with today's LLMs, but if we got to a point where I could trust one to handle this task without screwing up then I'd be on board.
jstummbillig 6 hours ago||||
> Isn't it just waiting for input from different sources and responding to it?

Well, yes. "Just" that. Only that this is at a high level a good description of how all humans do anything, so, you know.

dragonwriter 5 hours ago||
Yeah, and if you give another human access to all your private information and accounts, they need lots of supervision, too; history is replete with examples demonstrating this.
aydyn 4 hours ago|||
It's not just waiting for input, it has a heartbeat.md prompt that runs every X minutes. That gives it a feeling that it's always on and thinking.
tovej 1 hour ago||
That gives _you_ a feeling that it's always on. It still can't model time.
nozzlegear 1 hour ago||||
> It’s as if ChatGPT is an autonomous agent that can do anything and keeps running constantly.

Really stretching the definition of "anything."

vivzkestrel 6 hours ago|||
what are you guys running constantly? no seriously i havent run a single task in the world of LLMs yet for more than 5 mins, what are you guys running 24x7? mind elaborating?
boxedemp 6 hours ago|||
Monitoring, content generation, analysis, retroactive interference, activity emulation
picardo 6 hours ago|||
The key idea is not running constantly, but being always on, and being able to react to external events, not just your chat input. So you can set a claw up to do something every time you get a call.
rdiddly 3 hours ago|||
Never underestimate the lengths people will go to, just to avoid reading their damn email! :)
jesse_dot_id 2 hours ago|||
You maintain a base level of common sense.
selridge 7 hours ago||
You don’t understand the allure of having a computer actually do stuff for you instead of being a place where you receive email and get yelled at by a linter?
ranger_danger 5 hours ago|||
Perhaps people are just too jaded about the whole "I'll never have to work again" or "the computer can do all my work for me" miracle that has always been just around the corner for decades.
selridge 3 hours ago||
I do t see either of those as the premise.

This is about getting the computer to do the stuff we had been promised computing would make easier, stuff that was never capital-H Hard but just annoying. Most of the real claw skills are people connecting stuff that has always been connectable but it has been so fiddly as to make it a full time side project to maintain, or you need to opt into a narrow walled garden that someone can monetize to really get connectivity.

Now you can just get an LLM to learn apple’s special calendar format so you can connect it to a note-taking app in a way that only you might want. You don’t need to make it a second job to learn whatever glue needs to make that happen.

tovej 1 hour ago||
Reading some documentation to figure out a format is something you do once and takes you a few minutes.

Are you a developer? Then this is something you probably do a couple times a day. Prompting the correct version will take longer and will leave you with much less understanding of the system you just implemented. So once it fails you don't know how to fix it.

karel-3d 2 hours ago|||
What does it "do for me"? I want to do things. I don't want a probabilistic machine I can't trust to do things.

The things that annoy me in life - tax reports, doctor appointments, sending invoices. No way in hell I am letting LLM do that! Everything else in life I enjoy.

jesse_dot_id 2 hours ago||
I'd be kind of shocked if this didn't trigger the most harmful worm of all time eventually.
ramoz 2 hours ago|
AI is set to do that on its own given containment + alignment problems.
zmmmmm 3 hours ago||
It seems like the people using these are writing off the risks - either they think it's so unlikely to happen it doesn't matter or they assume they won't be held responsible for the damage / harm / loss.

So I'm curious how it will go down once serious harm does occur. Like someone loses their house, or their entire life savings or have their identity completely stolen. And these may be the better scenarios, because the worse ones are it commits crimes, causes major harm to third parties, lands the owner in jail.

I fully expect the owner to immediately state it was the agent not them, and expect they should be alleviated of some responsibility for it. It already happened in the incident with Scott Shambaugh - the owner of the bot came forward but I didn't see any point where they did anything to take responsibility for the harm they caused.

These people are living in a bubble - Scott is not suing - but I have to assume whenever this really gets tested that the legal system is simply going to treat it as what it is: best case, reckless negligence. Worst case (and most likely) full liability / responsibility for whatever it did. Possibly treating it as with intent.

Unfortunately, it seems like we need this to happen before people will actually take it seriously and start to build the necessary safety architectures / protocols to make it remotely sensible.

selridge 3 hours ago|
"Scott is not suing"

For what?

tomjuggler 14 hours ago||
There's a gap in the market here - not me but somebody needs to build an e-commerce bot and call it Santa Claws
intrasight 13 hours ago|
Well now somebody will
k4rli 4 hours ago||
Guaranteed some AI-bros have their "claws" scanning HN for both serious and non-serious business ideas like this.
thomassmith65 11 hours ago||

  giving my private data/keys to 400K lines of vibe coded monster that is being actively attacked at scale is not very appealing at all
https://nitter.net/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126

If this were 2010, Google, Anthropic, XAI, OpenAI (GAXO?) would focus on packaging their chatbots as $1500 consumer appliances.

It's 2026, so, instead, a state-of-the-art chatbot will require a subscription forever.

derwiki 9 hours ago|
Give it a few years and distilled version of frontier models will be able to run locally

Maybe it’s time to start lining up CCPA delete requests to OAI, Anthropic, etc

tabs_or_spaces 2 hours ago|
I'm confused and frustrated by this naming of "claws"

* I think my biggest frustration is that I don't know how security standards just gets blatantly ignored for the sake of ai progress. It feels really weird that folks with huge influence and reputation in software engineering just promotes this * The confusion comes in because for some reason we decide to drop our standards at a whim. Lines of code as the measurement of quality, ignoring security standards when adopting something. We get taught to not fall for shiny object syndrome, but here we are showing the same behaviour for anything AI related. Maybe I struggle with separating hobbyist coding from professional coding, but this whole situation just confuses me

I think I expected better from influential folks promoting AI tools to at least check validate the safety of using them. "Vibe coding" was safe, claws are not yet safe at all.

tryauuum 1 hour ago|
maybe they are enthusiastic about the evolution.

thousands of copies of shitty code, only the best will survive

I know it's hard to be enthusiastic about bad code, but worked well enough for the evolution of life on earth

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