Posted by PaulHoule 3 hours ago
Just the sewer (the capacity only, no work done) was $11k. Then add on the park and school fees which both were over $10k. No wonder it a builder has to build something over 2000 SQFT to make it pencil out.
Buying property should have the same transparency (into costs and fees) as breakfast cereal with nutritional labels.
I'm with you up until that. Maybe there are places where you have to build over 2000 sf due to regulations. For the most part, this is an industry talking point to justify building expensive houses on the limited land that gets zoned for residential. It gets repeated a lot.
You can build smaller houses but you can't charge as much for them. I'm not faulting the builders for maximizing profits, but it's still a talking point. (And in the grand scheme of things, it's not the reason housing is unaffordable.)
I kind of feel it is the inverse.
If you can build a house for X$/sqft, you have a linear relationship. If it costs 100k _plus_ X$/sqft (for sewer, permits, etc) now you have a floor. You can sell a bigger house for 600k, or a 35% smaller house for 425k, odds are you’ll sell the bigger house quicker. I bet the 325k homes would sell like beanie babies in the 90s in places like sf.
The actual problem, the elephant in the room, is that California is expensive, both by popularity and regulation. This makes for an embarrassing conundrum where California is simultaneously pushing poor people out while trying to subsidize their life via social programs.
I don’t think it’s working.
IMO the North America economic-societal "model" is High cost + More regulation. Everything is legal and proved by some experts, and regulated to the maximum, but in reality they also build moats after moats for existing interest groups (landlords, insurance companies, big contractors, etc.).
And everyone thinks this is the right model for "democracy" and "ruled by law". People may blame for part of the model (e.g. landlords) but never realize that the whole model is built to support this.
This is my observation so definitely biased.
Condo defect law is far far more onerous than defect law for single family homes, to the point that it doesn't make sense to offer units for sale. There are those working on reform but it's a slow process.
I have see it happen with older friends: they could move to a smaller place that's more appropriate but they'd had to pay a ton more.
The Prop 13 distortion on the market is very extreme. Perhaps even more so than the super low pandemic interest rates compared to today's interest rates.
We figured out that overhead power lines would prevent it from being lifted in by a crane, so we decided to have it assembled onsite. Then the county decided -- after full approvals -- it needed a concrete foundation. We asked how to do that when the backyard already had a concrete foundation. Building department said pour it on top of the existing foundation.
I've mentally blocked my memory of the other ways the county came up with to make it hard to place this cuboid shape in my yard, but each time added another $10K. And the end result, other than being a foot off the ground because of the duplicate foundation, was nothing more than the $30K structure I originally bought. I can't point to where the extra $50K went and say at least I got value from it.
Like all home construction or remodeling, each misstep was outrageous, but tolerable because it was surely the last hiccup before completion. Only later do you realize it's Zeno's Paradox and you're always halfway from the finish line.
Overall the price you see on the website is the price for the unit. You need to factor in delivery, upgrades, installation and site design).
As mentioned, it wasn't a cheaper option, but rather a better investment with the quick build and quality control. Our total for the build (with land) was still a savings compare to what is available in our local market.
It was a complete disaster. The developer hired contractors who didn't know what they were doing and ignored stop work orders when the city learned of the problems, which included setting the modular units on their foundations without the proper permits and in violation of state building code. A separate fire department inspection deemed the structure "unsafe for interior firefighting or for interior response by first responders." The site has been abandoned for about 5 years, and the development company filed for bankruptcy.
> contractors who didn't know what they were doing and ignored stop work orders
I mean... if you can't even stop when told...
It cost me less than half the median CA home price, with 7 acres, most of which I made walkable. I just had a nice morning walk through my "arboretum" of mostly manzanita plants. Real pretty ones, and I took some nice photos.
I could't move the home, nor place a new one in most locations, including the vicinity of my local downtown area. I checked, just for jollies.
Land costs drive CA housing. Look at charts or ask ... you know who.
The market is not free. It is heavily regulated by what can be built where when. There is a distinct lack of planning and regulation to protect consumers in this market.
The moral difference between BlackStone and the random NIMBY homeowner is that the homeowner exerts control over the planning process while Private Equity just piggybacks on the homeowner efforts.
[1]: https://missionlocal.org/2018/06/the-strange-and-terrible-sa...
[2]: https://sfyimby.com/2022/05/san-franciscos-historic-laundrom...
Of course, the tone of thse first article makes the problem even more obvious, in a black comedy kind of way, with the writer complaining about "luxury prices" of the resulting apartments without considering even for a second why the prices might be so high.
It's surprising to me that even the most optimistic estimate here is so modest.
Prefabrication doesn't save all that much money: you still need several guys, now with a crane, and you need to ship and deliver an oversize load. A lot of the cost is finish (including cabinets, countertops, appliances), and in California, land and compliance.
Labor and materials isn't the problem with housing costs. It's onerous permitting and zoning and code requirements.
With that said, the advantage disappears compared to national builders- the guys who buy up big farm fields and build entire subdivisions all in one go before they even have buyers. They can keep crews rotated between jobs in a fairly predictable schedule, so the only thing holding anyone back compared to the factory is bad weather preventing digging out room for foundations.
you as a one off can't because the plumber isn't going to give you the priority needed.
For them, blocking factory built housing meant they had a monopoly on the local housing development projects and easy commutes from their homes (which are protected from property tax increases by Prop 13) to the local job sites.
As these original local trades people have aged out of the workforce they are replaced by younger trades people who can't actually afford housing in the area face 1-2 hour commutes, I think there will be less resistance..
The thought of living in a huge home in Riverside or Fresno with a 10-20 minute commute and building in houses in a climate controlled, OSHA inspected building will start looking more attractive.