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Posted by microflash 15 hours ago

Magical Mushroom – Europe's first industrial-scale mycelium packaging producer(magicalmushroom.com)
328 points | 106 comments
jcims 9 hours ago|
Just a side note. I started growing mushrooms a couple of years ago.

Very interesting and fulfilling hobby, they are incredibly interesting critters. Takes a little bit of dedication to get started but once you start seeing them fruit and making your own substrate it's quite inexpensive and a lot of fun. I have a feeling lots of folks in this community would really like it.

Basic starter package is a 'monotub', selection of spores, grain for spawning, substrate for fruiting and miscellaneous bits and bobs for handling, hydrating, maintaining temps and cultivating. North Spore and Midwest Grow Kits are both reputable and reliable suppliers.

Tons of resources on YouTube as you might expect. One of my favorites is Southwest Mushrooms - https://www.youtube.com/@SouthwestMushrooms

jcims 2 hours ago||
Couple of pics of lions mane and pink oyster that I had sitting around - https://imgur.com/a/ubI3eWt
SebaSeba 6 hours ago|||
A thing I've been wondering, I might be completely lost in thinking about this, but do you know: If you grow mushrooms at home is there a risk that it spreads as kind of fungi to the building, furniture etc.?
jcims 2 hours ago|||
I agree with the replies so far in that there isn't a major risk of the mushrooms spreading.

That said, it's not completely risk free and I think it's important for folks who decide to get into the hobby at least take a moment to think about it. If you have someone in the household that has respiratory issues, I think it would be worthwhile ensuring that you have good containment to prevent spores from circulating the home (or do it elsewhere). This is particularly true if you decide to scale up (which is natural once you have some success, it truly is fun).

Also the growing environment is subject to infection from whatever environmental molds/fungus/etc are around, so reasonable precautions should be taken when handling/disposing. Once you get your procedures down this is less of an issue but still something to keep in mind.

Personally I didn't do anything but very basic precautions and never had an issue.

KarlKode 2 hours ago||||
Normally the risk of airborne spores taking over your growing material is much more likely than your (most of the time very selected and in no way adapted to the "normal" surroundings you try to grow them in) taking over your home. Keep in mind that almost all fungi like similar conditions and there are already loads of spores of fungi that are more adapted to your living conditions in the air.
foobiekr 5 hours ago||||
Mushrooms are everywhere. There used to be a subreddit of "weird mushrooms" like growing out of people's couches or in the bathroom, etc. In all cases, this is a sign of rot due to water intrusion.

You can grow mushrooms at home, it is fun. The only risk is that the mushrooms with high spore production are not great to have in a closed residence, especially oyster mushrooms which produce very high spore loads. There are vendors who produce cultures of sporeless oyster which can be used to grow oyster mushrooms indoors.

Outdoors, at least in most temperate areas, you are limited to things like shitake on logs or winecaps. The latter are incredibly easy to grow, and very good taste wise, but they are temperamental and basically grow on their own schedule, infrequently.

steelbrain 2 hours ago||
For the curious: https://www.reddit.com/r/mushroomID/
ksymph 3 hours ago|||
Nope. Edible mushrooms generally need similar conditions as mold/mildew/rot to grow, i.e. moisture, low light, and the right material -- though they tend to be pickier, and are less suited to human-adjacent conditions. So if you find mushrooms growing where they shouldn't, there's a much deeper moisture and mold issue.
holly01 5 hours ago|||
+1

I started a few months ago and it’s a great hobby. It’s like low maintenance gardening that you can do all indoors. It’s very satisfying to watch something grow. I think my only reoccurring cost is the coco coir I use as a substrate and the wheat berries, which are both very cheap.

idontwantthis 5 hours ago|||
Is there any risk of wild, potentially dangerous, mushrooms colonizing your garden?
foobiekr 5 hours ago|||
There is always a risk of things like this. For example, to make my winecap bed, I had to get a bunch of woodchips. There is no way woodchips that one will buy in bulk are not contaminated with the spores of other wood-eating fungus.

What you learn is how to positively identify the mushrooms you intend to produce/eat. It doesn't take long. I've only had alien mushrooms show up once.

eMPee584 5 hours ago|||
"I've only had alien mushrooms show up once" gonna be my reassuring quote of the day, thanks : )
tlavoie 4 hours ago||||
On the other hand, the morels that seemed to come with a load of wood chips were great for the year or two we had them.

I tried growing a little wine cap bed once, and it hadn't gone well. Perhaps it was the chickens pecking at it, can't say. I do still get wine caps on occasion, but they have migrated to more far-flung parts of the yard.

Barbing 5 hours ago|||
Do people ever try to irradiate or fumigate or however they’d treat the woodchips?

Maybe it would cost 10 times as much as the wood chips themselves… small batch spore bakeoffs…

fodkodrasz 5 hours ago|||
Adding poisons (fumigation) is definitely not a good idea. In mushroom plants the compost/humus used to grow mushrooms is often steam boiled to sterilize it, to keep the yields high and the production safe from any dangerous contamination. It is seeded with the spores of the desired species afterwards.
dnautics 1 hour ago|||
you could probably autoclave it with a standard dental/tattooing autoclave (~500 USD and requires a gas stove)
0x1ch 5 hours ago|||
I imagine it would require the bad spores to be carried with the good ones. Typically you get a slurry solution that you carry in distilled water, injecting your substrates. That would need to have the bad stuff in it as well.
idontwantthis 5 hours ago||
Don’t they float in the air?
0x1ch 4 hours ago|||
Wild spores and such yeah. When you purchase spores for the intent of growing them, you generally get a kit to mix them into a syringe or they already arrive in the syringe ready to be used. I tried growing some culinary strains and they generally come in the mail like that.
aram99 4 hours ago|||
only spores I think
convolvatron 5 hours ago||
what do you use as a low-cost substrate? I think this would be something I'd be into, but the idea of buying 5lb bags to be delivered by UPS really kind of takes the magic out of it.
markvdb 1 hour ago|||
Depends on the species. For something easy to grow like oyster mushrooms, straw. Do decontaminate the straw. Cooking water or hydraulic lime water should work for that.
jcims 2 hours ago||||
Certain species do better in different substrates, but for the ones I've grown coco coir (also suggested by holly01) works great. There are some additional bits you can add to improve results but it starts there. You can hydrate it with hot water in a 5 gallon bucket. There's lots of tutorials on YouTube.
lemax 4 hours ago||||
Mycelium has been shown to colonize some of the most unexpected substrates - cigarette butts [1], sawdust, you name it.

https://circulareconomy.europa.eu/platform/en/good-practices...

holly01 5 hours ago||||
Coco coir is very cheap and is what I use. If you want more of a project, you can make the inoculation jars and sterilize the grain yourself. That way you’ll be taking a spore/liquid culture syringe from a tiny blob of mycelium to a whole network of fruiting bodies. Doing that will also be much cheaper in the long run if you stick with the hobby
Flashtoo 5 hours ago|||
Coffee grounds
kepano 8 hours ago||
There are a few companies in this space, notably Ecovative, who have been trying to make mycelium-based packaging for almost two decades.

The problem is that it takes around 7 days for each piece of packaging to "grow", and the finished part is heavy and not compressible so it adds significant cost in manufacturing, storage and transit. And these costs don't get any better with scale.

For those reasons, mycelium packaging hasn't seen much adoption beyond being used as a marketing story for high-priced small goods. Environmentally forward companies have tended towards paper-based solutions like molded fiber.

Tepix 7 hours ago||
Heavy?

Two packages made from mycelium can behave very differently because “mycelium composite” is a category, not a single recipe. Particle size, fibre content, and the ratio of substrate to mycelium all change density. Higher density generally brings higher compressive strength and better edge definition, but it also increases weight and can reduce the springy cushioning that protective packaging needs.

Source: https://dirobots.com/en/mycelium-strength/

Barbing 5 hours ago||
Sounds like this might be your area of expertise. For the rest of us, take a shoebox. How much ballpark extra weight we talkin’ to have a livable planet? (Maybe the mushrooms would be ~2x as heavy as standard shoeboxes for example, to meet existing spec.)

Or how about for the glasses box they show on the site in OP, or a plastic sleeve like Americans sell Oreo cookies in. Anybody have any guesses?

Tepix 3 hours ago||
I've done some experiments with mycelium as a construction material, but I'm hardly an expert. Mycelium weighs anywhere between 50 and 950kg/m3. Usually you won't have mycelium as thin as cardboard, because you want use mycelium as a 3d buffer, replacing styrofoam. EPS (styrofoam) has densities of 15-30kg/m3. So while it's more sustainable it's also heavier.
Reason077 2 hours ago|||
Biodegradable foam packaging, as well has food containers, disposable cutlery, etc, has also been made from corn starch for decades.

I’m curious what the advantage of mycelium packaging is over these existing materials. Presumably, it’s not cheaper to produce? Is it mainly that the mycelium degrades faster and can be recycled more easily in home composting, etc? Or is this about creating “hard” plastic-like packaging that resists crushing, water, etc?

nine_k 51 minutes ago||
Theoretically fungi can live off sawdust, don't need plenty of light or watering, etc, so they should be less expensive than corn.

OTOH corn is highly optimized over centuries of breeding, harvesting, and processing. Fungi, not nearly so, so by now they may be more expensive.

mrsvanwinkle 8 hours ago||
Like real mold on fiber or
ThePowerOfFuet 8 hours ago|||
No. Think what egg cartons are made of.
orwin 10 hours ago||
My sister worked as an intern on mycelium as fertilizer. Basically, using cover crops create a small mycelium layer that helps plant grow and reduce fertilizer use (by fixing nitrogen probably). Her job was to find molecules that would make the mycelium, and only the mycelium, grow quicker.

That's a very interesting field to study, and it seems promising.

fsniper 5 hours ago|
Reading the first sentence have me a lot of " Last of us" vibes. I hope she's doing ok :)
8-prime 12 hours ago||
Looks really cool, though I don't know if the name is conducive to business. With just the URL I would not have clicked to see that the business is about.
Mordisquitos 11 hours ago||
Ironically I only came to this HN post and clicked on the URL because of the name. At first I misunderstood the description and thought they were doing industrial-scale packaging of magical mushroom mycelium.
mikepurvis 6 hours ago|||
I thought it was going to be about robot mushroom harvesting and packing, a competitor to companies like 4AG and Mycionics.
AntiqueFig 8 hours ago||||
Yeah same, I'm kinda sad now it's only packaging.
blackhaz 11 hours ago|||
That's a URL bait!
vages 11 hours ago|||
Any PR is good PR, I guess?
Pine_Mushroom 11 hours ago||
Years ago I ran an ecommerce site for gourmet and medicinal mushrooms. We certainly had nothing to do with illegal mushrooms, but I liberally sprinkled the word 'magic' where ever possible. Also the words 'Ann+Arbor'... It seemed to drive some traffic.
oniony 11 hours ago||
There are already companies that use packaging made from formed paper and sugarcane. I would be interested to see what mycelium packaging offers over this.

E.g. https://www.jishan-group.com/pulp-products.

cogman10 9 hours ago||
In the old days, wood shaving and even popcorn were the packing material of choice.

The reason styrofoam is used is because it's cheaper (main) and it doesn't decompose when wet.

jvm___ 7 hours ago||
Molasses was cheap because it was the packing material for plate glass - which was only made in England. Place your plate glass in a barrel, fill it with molasses and you can ship it to North America. Just wash off the glass and you're good to go.
Barbing 4 hours ago||
That’s wonderful so I want it to be true. Your comment is one of the top results on my search for more info!
elil17 10 hours ago||
I believe the mushroom packaging is more like a foam, so it may be able to better protect products. Additionally, it may have a more "premium" feeling/appearance vs. pulp packaging.
oniony 10 hours ago||
Looking at the images, it looks less premium to me than the smoother mouled paper inserts I've seen on electronic products. You could be right on with the foam aspect though.
elil17 9 hours ago||
Well there are multiple types of molded paper inserts. Egg carton-type material on the cheap end, and that super smooth stuff that Apple uses on the other (these generally have additives in them - they aren't just paper). In terms of "premium"ness this sits in the middle.
HumanVerbasizer 3 hours ago|||
Apple was using a cellulose foam mixed with a starch based biodegradable binder, one that was very slightly different from Paperfoam to save them money on licensing fees.

Now they just use 99% compressed cellulose with a few antistatic additives.

account42 6 hours ago|||
Even egg cartons look more premium than the pictures in TFA.
xattt 10 hours ago||

    > Mushroom® Packaging, grown from natural mushroom mycelium and agricultural by-products …
Does anyone know the agricultural byproducts are?
matsemann 8 hours ago||
How is Mushroom something you can put (r) after?
sowbug 6 hours ago|||
A trademark sets your brand apart from competitors. If your competitors are other brands of mushrooms, then "Mushroom" is too broad. But if you're trying to distinguish yourself from other brands of packaging, it might work.

If it got litigated and I were the judge, I'd be concerned they were trying to abuse trademark to get patent-like protection. In the narrow packaging market, another mushroom packaging competitor would have trouble talking about its product without mentioning the word "mushroom" and drawing the ire of Mushroom™ lawyers.

Disclaimer: lawyer law blah blah

fluoridation 7 hours ago|||
Well, how is "Windows"?
zukzuk 7 hours ago|||
Some mushrooms, like many oyster species, are saprotrophs and will grow on just about any waste organic material with enough cellulose.
Bayart 9 hours ago|||
Certainly dung. A common substrate for growing mushroom is a straw or shredded wood depending on the species plus manure.
Rooster61 8 hours ago||
Not certainly. A LARGE number of fungi grow just fine without manure. I think this is a common misconception since agaricus bisporus (portobello, bella, white, cremini, button) need it to grow well, and it is the most commonly human-grown fungus by a long shot.
0_____0 7 hours ago||
Most commonly grown? What, no love for yeast?!
Rooster61 6 hours ago||
Ahh, true. Didn't think about that one.
Mistletoe 9 hours ago||
It says it is the woody core of hemp.
londons_explore 8 hours ago||
Sounds like a thing you could just make paper and cardboard out of directly...
ac29 7 hours ago||
The hemp is part of the finished product, so its probably intentional they picked something so fibrous.

Per the webpage: "The mycelium binds the agricultural waste together, so it can be baked into durable protective packaging"

readingnews 12 hours ago||
Not sure if they were the first, or whatever, but this really seems like a breakthrough technology / methodology. How many cardboard boxes do we use a day? The mind boggles.

Totally cool stuff.

adzm 12 hours ago||
This seems more like a replacement for Styrofoam rather than cardboard boxes, though it could certainly be used in places we already use cardboard inserts. But probably still need a cardboard box on the outside. Thankfully we can grow those too!!
embedding-shape 11 hours ago||
> This seems more like a replacement for Styrofoam rather than cardboard boxes

It seems rigid though, more akin to cardboard than soft styrofoam. I don't see anything about how dampening it is, but from the pictures I also assumed it was more like cardboard than styrofoam. Maybe the color is deceiving me though.

zdragnar 10 hours ago||
https://magicalmushroom.com/mushroom-packaging

Under "Features" it explicitly calls out polystyrene as what it is meant to replace, and under "Performance" they claim to provide for clients "that demand the same technical performance as the polystyrene we replace"

rithdmc 11 hours ago|||
Dell have been using mycelium packaging for a while now - 2014 maybe? created in the US. Very interested to see this space go.
ndespres 10 hours ago||
Dell (and IKEA, and others) source from Ecovative who have been working on this for a while: https://ecovative.com/
microflash 8 hours ago||
Nice, thanks for the link. Somehow, this weekend I’ve gone into the rabbit hole of mycelium packaging, a completely new and interesting topic for me. Need to check this out before my fascination wears off.
elil17 10 hours ago|||
I don't think this is better for the environment than cardboard (if anything it is probably worse as a direct replacement for cardboard because cardboard already has a robust recycling supplychain). Rather, it is a replacement for plastic foam.
zdragnar 10 hours ago|||
https://magicalmushroom.com/mushroom-packaging

Under Features, it lists polystyrene products as what it replaces, not cardboard.

Tarq0n 11 hours ago|||
Cardboard is mostly renewable, it's the applications where we combine it with plastic where alternatives are needed.
ekjhgkejhgk 11 hours ago||
This isn't different from cardboard. This is made from mushrooms, cardboard is made from trees. The real problem is plastics.
throw567643u8 6 hours ago||
Truly green governments should outlaw plastic production and favour PLA bioplastics and this sort of thing. There's enough plastic in the ocean already.
cachius 9 hours ago||
Nice, similar to https://www.traceless.eu who are pioneering biopolymers from grain residue, fitting into existing machines and workflows.

They already supplied famous Rock am Ring festival with friespickers last year!

mikkupikku 5 hours ago|
How flammable are these? I've seen mycelium leather substitutes before but from what I understand if even a single spark lands on it, it's likely to start a smoldering fire that will consume the whole thing. Basically the perfect tinder.
Barbing 5 hours ago|
What’s a Class A Fire Rating?

https://mushroompackaging.com/pages/technical-data

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