Top
Best
New

Posted by surprisetalk 9 hours ago

Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective(worksinprogress.co)
282 points | 443 commentspage 3
hibikir 8 hours ago|
It's probably right, but it's not going to be a panacea: Outside of very few areas in US cities, a key limitation to bus ridership is few trips generated by the catchment areas: How many people would conceivably be served by each stop?

If you look at a high resolution density map of the world, you'll find great public transport in places that have at least 70K people in the square km around stops. At that density, you can often support subways profitably too. Then a mesh of subways and buses will get you to places quite efficiently. But then you look in the US, and the vast majority of our large metros have very few areas reaching those densities (Manhattan excluded). So you end up in situations where a bus or a light rail can neither be efficient nor cheap, no matter what you do with the bus stops. There's just not enough things near each stop, and even when they are close, it might not be even all that safe to cross the streets to reach your destination.

So while this might be a good optimization for places where we are close to good systems, I suspect that ultimately most cities need far more expensive changes to even consider having good transit

Moldoteck 7 hours ago||
The most important factors for public transport usage is reliability (it comes on time) speed and frequency(under 5-10 min wait time depending on area). For high demand areas- trams, for lower demand - trolleys or busses.

To achieve reliability speed and frequency transport needs own lanes and semaphore priority. If there are too few lanes - make one lane dedicated to pub transport and another - single direction for cars. Voila. You can start at worst with 15-20 min wait time, but reliable, and increase nr or units where demand is higher up to using a tram

Everything else has secondary priority. Even the mentioned safety aspect - it'll matter much less if the next bus will come in 5-10 mins and you can skip the current one because of some drunk ppl.

AndrewDucker 4 hours ago||
So removing the bus stops costs you 2 1/2 minutes of walking (150 seconds). And gains you 20 seconds per stop removed that you pass. Therefore you need to pass 8 removed stops to break even. Which seems like quite a commute to me.

I agree that low-stopping services are a good idea. Particularly in the suburbs. Use the high-stopping services to get people to the low-stopping services - and let them change buses for free/cheap. But I think that you still need regular stops, particularly if you are dealing with elderly people. And that in the middle of cities it's totally worth having a lot of stops, so that people can easily find one.

panick21_ 1 hour ago||
One of the problems in the US is that buses stop often and have really shitty doors. Often only 2 doors. And even worse, sometimes everybody needs to buy a ticket from the driver.

The buses are also smaller, with many fewer bendy-bus. So if you go to fewer stops, you could overwhelm individual buses.

So if you want shorter distance between stop you need to optimize the ingress/egress with lots of doors. And you need a fast accelerating bus, like an electric or preferably trolley bus. But the US does the exact opposite, short stops with bad buses.

But yeah, the US makes so many mistakes with buses, its actually crazy. Of course, many other make many of the same mistakes but usually only a few not all of them.

Canada is also making many of the US mistakes, but at least in large cities their buses see far more use then in comparable US cities. So they are doing better while still having some feeling North American.

So I agree, some amount of stop reduction does make sense in the US. And its attractive because its basically a 'zero cost' solution. But by itself its only a drop in the bucket.

The real problem is car priority in all aspects of design and its total primacy in the way of thinking.

piinbinary 8 hours ago||
Back when I lived in SF, there was one bus route (the 6, I believe) that I could use to get to work. The bus was so slow due to frequent, long stops and traffic lights that I could keep up with it on foot by walking briskly. I only bothered taking it when it was raining because it didn't get me to work any faster than walking.
n8cpdx 4 hours ago||
I’m surprised at the chilly reception to this article.

I ride bus and MAX (light rail) in Portland and despite not being the worst offender, too frequent stops is quite noticeable. When the bus stops every two blocks to let one person on or off each time, it really slows things down.

You can also notice when playing Cities Skylines. It is quite intuitive that making your transit stop constantly is not efficient.

On the rail system, the system has been closing redundant stations and it has made it feel much faster. Small adjustments can make a big difference.

Sure I’d like more transit investment, but that can be paired with using resources well.

resonantjacket5 4 hours ago||
I’m a bit confused why so many people are commenting as if bus stop balancing doesn’t work or that transit riders won’t accept it. From 2010s and 2020s plenty of transit agencies across America have been implementing bus stop rebalancing in Los Angeles, San Francisco, dc, Seattle etc and generally it’s been successful with speeding up buses.

Of course there most of the low hanging fruit with notorious like bus stops every 200/300feet are a lot fewer and the remaining ones to rebalance are a lot harder

bgnn 5 hours ago||
Isn't the solution to this to implement bus lanes + express busses on rush hour instead of removing half of the bus stops. Every bus stop is amazingly valuable as it's the gateway to the public transit system. This doesn't mean every bus needs to stop at every stop along its route. This is not a magical European invention even, any busy Asian city will have sth like this.

Bus lanes are much more effective than the express busses to increase ridership by the way. Busses avoiding the traffic jams while the cars getting stuck in them changes the mind of even the most hardcore petrolhead.

nearbuy 4 hours ago|
Just because bus lanes are beneficial where feasible doesn't mean optimizing the number of bus stops isn't also beneficial.

Clearly it's possible for there to be too many bus stops. You wouldn't put a bus stop every 30 ft. So it's also possible that some existing bus routes have too many stops, and spacing them out more would help.

chung8123 7 hours ago||
Public transport has an identity problem in the US. Trying to serve 100% of your market will result in a worse service for everyone. It needs to decide if it is for the handicap, the people that don't drive, the people that want to commute, etc.

Making fewer stops helps the commute people and those that are able bodied. It doesn't help serve the people that are handicap.

kazinator 7 hours ago|
A really stupid thing in the world of bus stops is the bus stop that is placed immediately before an intersection with a traffic light. The light is green, but someone wants to get on or off, so the bus has to stop at that stop. Then just as it is about to pull out, the light goes yellow.
nickorlow 7 hours ago|
I think the main idea behind it is that it allows buses to queue up if many arrive at once without blocking the intersection
More comments...