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Posted by todsacerdoti 23 hours ago

When AI writes the software, who verifies it?(leodemoura.github.io)
278 points | 277 commentspage 7
acedTrex 22 hours ago|
No one does currently, and its going to take a few very painful and high profile failures of vital systems for this industry to RELEARN its lesson about the price of speed.

In fact it will probably need to happen a few times PER org for the dust to settle. It will take several years.

arscan 21 hours ago||
Sure but industry cares about value (= benefit - price), not just price. Price could be astronomical, but that doesn’t matter if benefit is larger.
jcgrillo 21 hours ago||
I feel like people used to talk about nines of uptime more. As in more than one. These days we've lost that: https://bsky.app/profile/jkachmar.com/post/3mg4u3e6nak2p

I recall a time, maybe around 2013-2017, when people were talking about 4 or 5 nines. But sometime around then the goalposts shifted, and instead of trying to make things as reliable as possible, it started becoming more about seeing how unreliable they can get before anyone notices or cares. It turns out people will suffer through a lot if there's some marginal benefit--remember what personal computers were like in the 1990s before memory protection? Vibe coding is just another chapter in that user hostile epic. Convenient reliability, like this author describes, (if it can be achieved) might actually make things better? But my money isn't on that.

simonw 21 hours ago||
The "Nearly half of AI-generated code fails basic security tests" link provided in this piece is not credible in my opinion. It's a very thinly backed vendor report from a company selling security scanning software.
mkoubaa 13 hours ago||
PMs have been asking the same question about software developers for decades
waterTanuki 8 hours ago||
I've grown to hate using python in production since LLMs have been around. Python cannot enforce minimum standards like cleaning up unused variables, checking array access, and properly typing your functions. There's a number of tools built to do this but none of them can possibly replace a compiler.

Compiled languages like Go and Rust are my new default for projects on the backend, typescript with strict typing on for the frontend, and I foresee the popularity growing the more LLM use grows. The moment you let an LLM loose in a Javascript/Python codebase everything goes off the rails.

heftykoo 14 hours ago||
Another AI, obviously. And then a third AI to monitor the first two for conflicts of interest. Jokes aside, this is exactly the era where formal verification (like TLA+ or Lean, seeing the other post on the front page) actually makes commercial sense. If the code is generated, the only human output of value is the spec. We are moving from writing logic to writing constraints.
globular-toast 8 hours ago||
I'm starting to think of this LLM thing a bit like fossil fuels.

We've got fossil fuels that were deposited over millions of years, a timescale we are not even properly equipped to imagine. We've been tapping that reserve for a few decades and it's caused all kinds of problems. We've painted ourselves into a corner and can't get out.

Now we've got a few decades worth of software to tap. When you use an LLM you don't create anything new, you just recycle what's already there. How long until we find ourselves in a very similar corner?

The inability of people to think ahead really astounds me. Sustainability should be at the forefront of everyone's mind, but it's barely even an afterthought. Rather, people see a tap running and just drink from it without questioning once where the water is coming from. It's a real animal brain thing. It'll get you as far as reproducing, but that's about it.

mootoday 10 hours ago||
AI of course
__mharrison__ 9 hours ago||
TDD...
nemo44x 17 hours ago||
I believe the old ways, which agile destroyed, will come back because the implementation isn’t the hardest part now. Agile recognized correctly that implementation was the hard part to predict and that specification through requirements docs, UML, waterfall, etc. were out of date by the time the code was cooked.

I don’t think we’ll get those exact things back but we will see more specification and design than we do today.

bwestergard 17 hours ago|
Agile was a response to the coordination problems in certain types of firms. Waterfall persisted in organizations that have and require a more traditional bureaucratic structure. Waterfall makes sense if you are building a space probe or an unemployment insurance system, agile makes sense if you are trying to find product market fit for a smartphone app.
nemo44x 16 hours ago||
Yeah and why I don’t think we’ll go back to that exactly. But software designed more deliberately and requirements that are more detailed and “documented” if that’s the right word?
slopinthebag 17 hours ago|
LLM generated code combined with formal verification just feels like we're entering the most ridiculous timeline. We know formal verification doesn't work at scale, hence we don't use it. We might get fully vibe coded systems but we sure as hell won't be able to verify them.

The collapse of civilisation is real.

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