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Posted by dmckinno 10 hours ago

My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs(www.ddmckinnon.com)
77 points | 74 commentspage 2
bg24 4 hours ago|
I think it depends on the company. In large companies, the role of PM probably won’t change that much. However, PMs who are technical and hands-on can bring significantly more value by leveraging AI tools.

There’s another path for PMs that the article and most of the comments don’t seem to mention.

Technical PMs are now in a great position to start their own companies. In the past, many were blocked or handicapped by the inability to code. With AI-assisted development, that barrier is much lower, which gives them a lot more leverage to build products themselves.

ambicapter 6 hours ago||
The linked article on evals is even more interesting.
dmckinno 6 hours ago|
Thanks! I posted that one almost a year ago and it blew up on LinkedIn of all places but was totally ignored on HN.
aurareturn 7 hours ago||
I think technical PMs or product oriented developers are the future most valuable people.
chickensong 34 minutes ago||
They always have been, long before AI. Some sales engineers can be in the club as well IMHO.

It's pretty normal for integration projects with big corps to have problems, but if the project has executive interest and the A-team gets called in, it's a joy to work with those people. The lines between the roles are blurred, it's just smart and dynamic people making things work. They don't give a shit about following scrum or pedantic coding standards, only project success, but not in a superficial way. I don't know if they truly care about what they're doing, but they're so far above the baseline that it doesn't really matter.

WhiteOwlLion 6 hours ago||
You make a better product if you plan it out first. That’s part of a PM’s job so it’s natural fit when the ai does the coding. The code may not be ideal but it’ll have the structure you can improve on.
NitpickLawyer 3 hours ago|||
> You make a better product if you plan it out first.

Maybe. Maybe not. Sometimes you have to see it to understand what's wrong / how can it be improved. It's one of the actual benefits of pre-religious agile - have something in front of your sponsor ASAP, adapt to their feedback. This loop can be made faster, but you'll still need some expertise at every level. Just not so many bodies.

ryoshu 6 hours ago|||
Entire product or a feature for a product? Sometimes you just want to test an idea and vibe coding works well for that in the very short amount of time it takes now. Product market fit, user testing, engineering, those can come after the hunch.
shay_ker 5 hours ago||
I remember this post. But I'm not sure what the future really entails and I suspect it'll be very company/culture dependent. In some companies, the engineers are very savvy and understand the business well. In others, it's the designers. Or sales. Ops. And of course Product Managers. You get the picture.

Whoever gets the business best (and in detail) will likely be the best builders. It's "intuition as evals" that really matters in the end. You think Software Engineers or Product Managers are replacing Quants at trading shops anytime soon? Nope.

jackyli02 6 hours ago||
PMs in Meta-scale companies vs. startups has always been different, and they are diverging even more as AI gets better.

In startups anything goes. PMs and engs do whatever it takes to ship and scale the business. No one cares who's using AI in what way, as long as they're getting shit done.

In a place like Meta or Amazon, people also get more shit done with AI, but because these teams are huge, well-oiled machines, sudden productivity bumps or norm changes can drop overall productivity.

Totally agree with this post as long as it's limited to large, mature teams

dmckinno 6 hours ago|
100%. PMs at startups already wear many hats and AI helps them do that even better.

But to this sister comment's point, I do think that the dedicated PM role will vanish and the classic BigCo PM will need to look a lot more like the startup one.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47242699

sublinear 7 hours ago||
> Why should PMs code? Better communicate the idea/feature

I think this is the main takeaway, but I'm curious how bad the PM must have been at communicating to begin with if this is necessary.

dmckinno 6 hours ago|
Communicating a feature with a doc or mock can be really hard. A prototype can make things much clearer to a broad audience.
Ronsenshi 6 hours ago||
> Fun!!!!!

I noticed that AI evangelists really love to use word "fun" to describe anything they do with AI.

Claw people particularly seem really love to use that word when answering what practical or useful they do with AI agents. It's always something absurdly trivial followed by "and it's just fun!"

Don't really have any conclusion to this - just thought to share this observation.

wiseowise 1 hour ago||
Whenever someone says “Fun!!!!” when it comes to LLMs/Claws I can only imagine the author having that obnoxious face: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/soy-boy-face-soyjak
overgard 5 hours ago|||
It's probably on the script they've been given
dmckinno 6 hours ago||
Weird take. Coding is fun (and has been since before AI). And vibe coding is fun in an entirely different way.
Ronsenshi 5 hours ago|||
What's weird about it? I'm not disputing that it might be fun for vibe coders. Just that they seem to really like using that particular word.

I love coding and it is fun for me. Vibe coding on the other hand - not fun at all. It feels to me like playing slots.

But then again, I never liked gambling.

wiseowise 1 hour ago||||
When your only defense is “I’m just having fun!!!!” after dumping your toxic waste in the net, it’s not a weird take.
slopinthebag 5 hours ago|||
Not weird at all. It's a common motte & bailey tactic, when your defence of the utility of something fails you can just say you do it for fun!!!!!!!.
SurvivorForge 5 hours ago||
[flagged]
foltik 2 hours ago||
Begone, bot.
maplethorpe 6 hours ago|
Hot take: only PMs need to code now. With Claude 4.6 Opus, the engineer skill set is no longer useful. Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?
bayarearefugee 4 hours ago||
> With Claude 4.6 Opus, the engineer skill set is no longer useful.

The most recent models have spooked me into believing this is a thing that is likely to be true at some point, but it ain't true yet.

dmckinno 5 hours ago|||
This is kind of like the reverse of the sister comment, which I agree with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47242699

The general point is that separating PM and eng doesn't make sense any longer. Which subsumes which is an interesting debate.

Your argument that 4.6 Opus makes the engineering skill set useless is totally false and maybe shows you haven't built anything complicated, but it is possible that Opus 5.2 will get there.

otabdeveloper4 15 minutes ago|||
Pretty sure Claude Opus can do a PMs job too.
wiseowise 1 hour ago|||
Hotter take: why even hire someone at all? Just dial up FOMO and threats, and pile up more work on peons that you own already.
robotswantdata 2 hours ago|||
If that were true, why would they need a PM ether?

Agents would research and identify requirements on their own, observe customer interactions and monitor for trends. Taste.md downloaded via LoveFrom

perrylaj 5 hours ago|||
Opposing Hot take (possibly missing the joke....):

Coding was never the most valuable skill a software engineer contributed. Socially-capable engineers are going to be far more likely than PMs to 'shine' when agents can write code and engineers are afforded more time to engage with busines/customers/stakeholder/domain experts.

If my experience is any reflection of the norm, the avg PMs greatest value has never come from effectively determining the value or requirement of a product or translating requests/feedback to meaningful deliverables. It's been in providing cover (time) for engineers that could do the same job better, but are irreplaceable in the development process and so are more rare/valuable spending time doing development. When engineers no longer need to write code, they are a more direct line to effectively solving "Product-Led" business needs with technical solutions than a typical PM will be.

romanovcode 58 minutes ago|||
Most seniors are hired for their code readability and real-life experiences with real products and problems. Not for code writing ability.
Bridged7756 5 hours ago|||
Buddy, when the engineering skill set is "no longer useful" you'll be living in a cardboard box at least a couple of years before that ever happens.
krater23 4 hours ago|||
LOL....thats more a cold one.

Just wait what you pay for the tokens when the enshittification has started and the bubble bursted. In some years you will see that no new engineers are coming along and your products are dying on edge cases that the AI can't handle all together.

Edit: Ok, don't got the sarcasm :D

slopinthebag 5 hours ago||
> Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?

Is this sarcasm? You don't think there is any utility to understanding code?

Edit: you got me haha.