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Posted by Munksgaard 7 hours ago

“It turns out” (2010)(jsomers.net)
205 points | 69 comments
gwd 6 hours ago|
This was pointed out humorously by Douglas Adams:

> "..am I alone in finding the expression 'it turns out' to be incredibly useful? It allows you to make swift, succinct, and authoritative connections between otherwise randomly unconnected statements without the trouble of explaining what your source or authority actually is. It's great. It's hugely better than its predecessors 'I read somewhere that...' or the craven 'they say that...' because it suggests not only that whatever flimsy bit of urban mythology you are passing on is actually based on brand new, ground breaking research, but that it's research in which you yourself were intimately involved. But again, with no actual authority anywhere in sight."

SunshineTheCat 1 minute ago||
It kinda reminds me of replying to a statement with "So...it's come to this..."

My friends and I use to do this all the time for no particular reason except to turn an otherwise ordinary conversation into challenge that can only be resolved by mortal combat.

Of course, we did it jokingly with each other. But when someone we didn't know heard us do this they were genuinely confused with what we were so offended by, which was half the fun.

turnsout 6 hours ago|||
Turns out I was onto something
DetroitThrow 5 hours ago||
"It Turns Out" (2010)

user?id=turnsout (2020)

bryanrasmussen 5 hours ago||
Id Turns Out? There's 16 numbers from d to t, counting t. 2010 + 16. OMG Turns out they were on to something!
rmellow 2 hours ago||
I think y'all are on something.
thom 5 hours ago||
When I saw this title on HN, I immediately thought it was going to be about The Salmon of Doubt.
wongarsu 6 hours ago||
There is however another very powerful aspect of the phrase: it suggests that something is not obvious. This makes it very powerful when correcting someone without making them feel like they said something stupid. "The sun is yellow" "You'd think that. But it turns out that without the atmosphere the sun is actually a blueish white, and high on the sky it's a neutral white"
Modified3019 4 hours ago||
That’s exactly how I try to use the phrase, usually when pushing back against falsified ideas I likely accepted to some degree myself and later looked into. Like the whole thing with alpha/beta male wolf mythology vs real observation in the wild.

Incidentally, just yesterday I learned the sun is “white”, because I was looking at why veins are bluish (despite low oxygen blood actually being just dark red) and looking into light scattering effects that are the cause.

ErroneousBosh 1 hour ago|||
There's a collection of Ben Goldacre's articles compiled in a book called "I Think You'll Find It's A Bit More Complicated Than That", which is a phrase I want to put on a T-shirt, or possibly my Teams background at work.
yegle 5 hours ago||
I don't see the example would be different in conveying the same meaning if you omit the whole "85 turns out that".
dack 5 hours ago||
if you include "it turns out that", you're implying that maybe you thought the same as them in the past, but looked into it, and learned something interesting. if you omit that, you're just correcting them and subtly implying that they aren't as smart as you (e.g. it was obvious to you)
jonahx 5 hours ago||
Interesting rebuttal written by a HN reader when the original was published and made it to the front page in 2010:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100309032112/http://blog.ethan...

tptacek 4 hours ago||
I'd argue the most interesting part of this piece isn't what it says about Paul Graham, but rather the observation it makes about writing. I think about "It Turns Out" all the time, and it's virtually never because I'm in that moment caring about something Graham wrote.
jonahx 4 hours ago||
I agree. I like the original piece Sommers wrote, as did the rebuttal author. I think the insight about "it turns out" has merit whether or not it works as a pg takedown. Nevertheless I also enjoyed the nothing-but-receipts rebuttal.
vanschelven 5 hours ago||
The rebuttal is especially interesting because it simply let's the actual usages of the term speak for themselves. It turns out (ha!) that the Cambridge example is the only case that supports the OPs case.
n4r9 5 hours ago||
> Wait a second: that's not an argument at all! It's a blind assertion based only on my own experience.

The (admittedly few) PG essays I've read do seem to have a habit of hiding tall claims, as I've posted about before

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43566675

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42939439

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42697283

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39754588

jakub_g 38 minutes ago||
Semi-related, something that kind of irritates me is the usage of "as" in online newspapers headlines:

   "$Something-is-happening as $Something-else-is-happening"
It's usually written in a way that might be suggesting a direct link between the two things to a layman, but often there's none, other than the fact those two things are happening around the same time.

This can be disorienting when the reader is not familiar with the subject discussed, and lead them to wrong conclusions.

kryptiskt 6 hours ago||
One good use of "It turns out..." is to report negative results. Something like "You can overclock a Mac Mini to 8GHz using liquid nitrogen. It turns out this is not a stable configuration <picture of burning Mac Mini hooked up to a physics experiment>"
pmg102 6 hours ago||
A phrase also beloved of Adam Curtis, along with starting new sentences with conjunctions. "But this was a fantasy." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg
SoftTalker 2 hours ago||
It turns out that "It turns out" is just another overused corpspeak cliche that sounds important and thoughtful on the surface but actually betrays a low-effort level of writing.
jrm4 3 hours ago||
Haven't seen anyone else mention the following - but it more or less fulfills the same connotative role as the passive voice, no? Takes focus off the agency of -- well, the speaker, but actually anyone?
loevborg 5 hours ago|
I'm a big Rich Hickey fan. He's a big user of a (to me) peculiar variant of the phrase, "it ends up": a total of 144 times in https://github.com/matthiasn/talk-transcripts

It also struck me as a bit of a sleight of hand - but maybe it's just rhetorical flourish. Or more charitably you could say it's inevitable - in a conference talk of finite length, you can't possibly back up every assertion with detailed evidence. "It turns out" or "it ends up" are then a shorthand way of referring to your own experience.

loevborg 5 hours ago|
PS all 17 hits for "it turns out" in the repository are from other speakers.
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