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Posted by bigwheels 7 hours ago

The Brand Age(paulgraham.com)
168 points | 155 commentspage 3
iamwil 2 hours ago|
I kept thinking that he'd eventually compare it to writing software by hand, and how we're at the end of one golden age. But he never did. So I wonder what the impetus for the essay was.
renjimen 16 minutes ago|
Ditto. I kept waiting for the AI comparison. My interpretation was less agentic coding than the commodification of LLMs, forcing Anthropic and OpenAI into a pivot to focus on brand. Anthropic's spat with the DoD could be viewed through that lens: losing money on a deal to better position the brand.
multisport 4 hours ago||
Obviously not the main point, but I've been reading watch media online for over a decade now, I've read or heard this "Quartz Crisis" story hundreds of times and never ONCE read about the coincidence with the Bretton Woods agreement. Makes sense though, its basically oral history.
SuperHeavy256 3 hours ago|
Wdym 'oral history'? Who has been talking about this history orally?
sinzone 2 hours ago||
software is becoming like the fashion industry. you go to Prada vs Hermess because you think one does better shoes and the other better bags. But is not because neither could do better shoes or bad it isb ecause your mind positioning is set.

Software. everyone can do it now. but you still buy lets say Crowdstrike for security, because is in your brain for years as security software.

givemeethekeys 4 hours ago||
Also explains why German cars look the way they do today. Emphasizing the brand, so everyone can see it.
creeble 5 hours ago||
> So the only thing distinguishing one top brand from another was the name printed on the dial

Respectfully disagree.

Since the 60's (and one could argue, even long before that), watches are 1) fashion, and 2) male wealth-signaling fashion. That's it. Nothing more. And for males who subscribe to this wealth-signaling cult, they know from a long way away what watch brand is on that guy's wrist.

Okay, today's brands signal maybe a little differently than just wealth. Casio G-Shock watches aren't substantially different than their non-G-Shock counterparts in any significant way, but they cost way more. The G-Shock brand signals... I dunno, sportsy-ness? Maybe it is closer to a pure fashion brand here.

I think we've been in "The Brand Age" since the advent of advertising. There are plenty of products that have virtually no differentiation besides brand, and there (almost) always has been.

JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago||
> they know from a long way away what watch brand is on that guy's wrist

No, they didn’t. The makers of movements and makers of cases were separate. From far away you only know the case on the wrist. Not the movement. (I think Rolex was the first mass-market Swiss watch brand to vertically integrate. Patek may have been the first boutique.)

creeble 5 hours ago|||
The movement isn't part of the brand. It's not part of the signal. The case/dial/sometimes band are the brand. And if you couldn't tell them apart, they wouldn't be any good at signaling, the entire point of wearing them.
JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago|||
> movement isn't part of the brand. It's not part of the signal. The case/dial/sometimes band are the brand

The movement was the expensive part. Audemars, Vacheron and Patek only made movements. The retailer would then put it in a case. That’s the entire point of PG’s essay.

> if you couldn't tell them apart, they wouldn't be any good at signaling, the entire point of wearing them

Which might lead you to revise your hypothesis around why these watches were bought and made in the “golden age of watches.” Then as now there is such a thing as quiet luxury.

KaiserPro 2 hours ago||
> Patek only made movements

I don't think thats really true, Audemars & Patek deffo made entire watches in the 50s.

Don't get me wrong they also designed movements, but by the time of the quartz crisis, Patek bought in movements from outside.

It doesn't really help that omega and tissolt were merged with Certina, ETA, hamilton when then turned into swatch, which basically dominates the entire swiss watch industry along with rolex and richemont(who own Vacheron)

bee_rider 4 hours ago||||
It’s sort of hard to unravel what’s part of the brand, it’s all imagination anyway.

The watch manufacturer, as part of their reputation, buys “premium” internal components. And then the hardcore watch-heads get to know that this model has that premium movement. Everybody in the club gets to signal to each other by knowing internal details that outsiders don’t notice (or even details that can’t be noticed, I mean, I assume by nowadays non-premium-brand movements are functionally identical to the premium ones).

randallsquared 4 hours ago|||
The whole point of pg's essay is that signaling transitioned into being the entire point of wearing them primarily in the 1980s.
kridsdale1 5 hours ago|||
They were. The Acquired podcast on Rolex really opened my eyes to this whole world. They defined the playbook in the 1930s that Apple repeated in the 80s and especially 2000s.
kridsdale1 5 hours ago|||
I entered this cult last year. It’s been super fun to spot and infer from a distance, as you say, these hidden signals that men have chosen to spend $20,000 to $120,000 on.

G-Shock says “I do things that are so dangerous and so off the grid your Rolex or Apple Ultra would shatter and die”. And it’s true, out of my whole collection, that’s the one that will still be within a ms of true time 25 years after the power goes out after the nukes go off.

stackghost 3 hours ago||
>The G-Shock brand signals... I dunno, sportsy-ness? Maybe it is closer to a pure fashion brand here.

I own (among other, nicer time pieces) a G-Shock. I bought it when I was in the military and frankly it's a great watch that has withstood some serious abuse. Maybe a cheaper watch would have also survived? I'd happily buy another but mine's still literally and figuratively ticking.

foolserrandboy 4 hours ago||
https://www.econtalk.org/seiko-swatch-and-the-swiss-watch-in...
zie 3 hours ago|
Don't worry, Seiko learned: https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/collections/sbgd223j
NinjaTrance 4 hours ago||
"When our time traveler peered into the windows of these shops, the first thing he'd notice was how large all the watches were."

My only question about this entire essay is... where did this time traveler came from???

"Our" time traveler was never mentioned until this line.

badc0ffee 4 hours ago||
Not true:

> The best way to answer that might be to imagine what someone from the golden age would notice if we brought him here in a time machine. [...] The first thing he'd notice, if he walked through a fancy shopping district, is that all the prominent watchmakers of the golden age seem to be doing better than ever.

zahlman 35 minutes ago||
Clearly, the time traveler went back in time to get inserted into a paragraph that GP overlooked the first time.
randallsquared 4 hours ago|||
It was several paragraphs before that, where pg said "[...] what someone from the golden age would notice if we brought him here in a time machine."
bensyverson 3 hours ago||
> One obvious lesson is to stay away from brand.

Wow, that is… not what I would recommend. Brand is one of the few things that will give you pricing power in the age of AI.

atotic 3 hours ago||
I expected this essay to end with a note about software's golden age.
figassis 4 hours ago|
“Why is the Patek Philippe Nautilus so expensive?”

If you have to explain why your product is expensive, maybe it shouldn’t be.

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