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Posted by klausa 6 hours ago

Pentagon formally labels Anthropic supply-chain risk(www.wsj.com)
369 points | 241 commentspage 4
jawns 6 hours ago|
The consequence is that any company that does business with the U.S. military, and potentially any company that does business with the government in general, must stop using Anthropic's products for that work.

Anthropic has vowed to fight this designation in court.

Without weighing in on the constitutionality or legality of the move, I think it's obvious that this kind of retaliation power is unmatched by any private business that has a contractual dispute.

If a private business doesn't like Anthropic's terms, it can walk away from the deal, but it can't conduct coordinated retaliation with other companies before ending up in antitrust territory or potentially violating the Sherman Act.

Now for my editorializing: The fact that Pete Hegseth is willing to apply this type of designation against a U.S. company simply because he doesn't like its terms is pretty chilling. It's all the more scary once you consider which terms he objects to.

mitthrowaway2 6 hours ago||
Every action has an opposite reaction. The DoD has made itself riskier to do business with, and future contacts will have to price that risk in.
alephnerd 6 hours ago|||
FedRAMP and FedRAMP adjacent revenue is non-negotiable for vast swathes of businesses. The designation of "supply chain risk" is viral in nature because no GRC team will dare take such a risk within their supply chain because most customers add BOM requirements in contracts so this will end up falling under those already.

There's a lot of backchanneling going on between Emil and Dario because everyone's in the same circles but it's all for naught.

hedayet 5 hours ago||||
In Hegseth's voice - No longer politically correct "DoD". It's precisely violent DoW now.
stefan_ 5 hours ago|||
The DoD has been rather consistent that they will decide what to do with a product sold to them, not some random vendor. There is nothing extra to "price in".
nkohari 5 hours ago||
The "extra" is that the government is now attempting to unilaterally renegotiate contracts, and if the contractor disagrees, not only do they terminate the agreement but they restrict how other companies can work with you.
bicx 6 hours ago|||
Apparently that's not 100% true. The DoD contractor itself can still use Anthropic's technology, just not on U.S. military contract projects.
jacquesm 4 hours ago|||
If you were a contractor to DoD (no way I'm calling them DoW) would you take the risk of doing business with a company that has been labeled a supply chain risk by your main customer?
ectospheno 5 hours ago||||
They will stop just to be sure no boundaries are crossed.
alephnerd 5 hours ago|||
The issue is the onus is on the contractor to prove that Anthropic technology has not tainted US government contracted projects - this is a herculean task verging on impossible. Additionally, most contracts will mandate SLAs around removing BOM risks.
AnotherGoodName 5 hours ago||
I’d like a lawyer to give some input. If you have a company that deals with the military does this chain down to not being allowed to use Claude or not?
Imustaskforhelp 5 hours ago||
IANAL and this is my understanding of the situation (I can be completely wrong) but yes, any company that deals with military cant use Claude (anthropic)

In fact adding onto it, IIRC this is the reason why google and amazon have to divest essentially from Anthropic if they want Govt. contracts

Hope this helps though a lawyer's input will definitely be more credible. So its good for them to respond as well.

6thbit 4 hours ago||
Would this mean Any systems built with Claude in defense environments may need to be rebuilt or removed?
zppln 4 hours ago|
From what I understand it cannot be used to perform work on contracts where the DoW is on the other side. [1]

In practice I would suspect companies with such contracts would play it safe by outright banning the use of Anthtropic products, even if they could technically be used for work on contracts with other parties.

[1] https://www.anthropic.com/news/statement-comments-secretary-...

sam0x17 4 hours ago||
Streisand effect I think this will boost sales
gritspants 4 hours ago|
I hope so. I will never type a single thought of my own or personal detail into an OpenAI product again. I have no doubt at some point OpenAI will be asked by DoD to hand over customer data and they will do so. If I use AI at all for nonprofessional reasons it will be Anthropic/Claude.
6thbit 1 hour ago||
US Gov doesn't really need a contract with anthropic to force them to hand over customer data do they? What would prevent that from happening if they are still a US based company?
m_ke 6 hours ago||
We can all thank the VCs and CEOs who fully embraced and enabled this administration
strange_quark 5 hours ago||
We're all trying to find the guy who did this!
hypeatei 5 hours ago||
And 32% of eligible voters that thought Kamala would've been worse.
m_ke 5 hours ago||
Don't blame the voters, they didn't get to pick her and did not run her campaign.
hypeatei 4 hours ago||
Oh no, I will. They're absolutely culpable.
m_ke 4 hours ago||
I think the DNC and the media might need to get some of that blame for being empty vessels for corporate interests that allowed this conman to get elected twice
osiris970 4 hours ago||
Voters knew who trump was and chose him. They deserve all the blame. As a voting adult ur choices have consequences. All voters who voted trump or third party deserve all the consequences
hax0ron3 5 hours ago||
I am a political moderate who dislikes both the Democrats and Republicans. I think that I have been fair to the Trump administration in the past, including occasionally defending them from some of the less reality-based accusations against them.

I canceled my ChatGPT subscription a couple of days ago. In my opinion the Trump administration has become far too much of an "imperial Presidency" in its acts of war and its attempts to bully companies. It is also corrupt on a massive scale. I distrust anyone who thinks "yes, I'd like to work with this administration".

blipvert 4 hours ago|
Genuine question - was your fair consideration prior to or after J6?
hax0ron3 4 hours ago||
Both.
baxtr 6 hours ago||
I would love to understand in more detail what kind of use cases we’re talking about.

Is this about locating the right target for a sortie for example?

rustyhancock 5 hours ago||
Anthropic already had a deal via Palantir so it seems it's models are used in a variety of ways by the pentagon.

The reports about Venezuela and Iran seem to suggest it's primary role was processing bulk intel.

But also that it was being used in planning and target selection.

Presumably what spooked Anthropic was that these tools were about to be directed internally.

But it's not clear if this is a point of principle that the government wants no holds barred with it's tools?

beambot 5 hours ago||
Anthropic was very clear about the usage restrictions: They didn't want them being used to control autonomous kill drones or mass surveillance of the American public. That's it. DoW didn't like that -- for reasons that will probably soon become apparent.
jml78 5 hours ago||
Correct, it will be about silencing any opposition against this administration. OpenAI will be happy to let their models be used to persecute, kill, and destroy american democracy if it lines Sam's pockets.
hk__2 5 hours ago||
> I would love to understand in more detail what kind of use cases we’re talking about.

The whole point is that the use-case does not matter; either you allow the government to do everything they want, either you don’t.

pirate787 5 hours ago||
either you allow a democratically elected government to do everything they want that is legal, or you insert private corporate decision-making into every government decision which is untenable
sodality2 5 hours ago|||
Is there any evidence that going outside the scope of the agreement would amount to anything more than a contract violation? Are we really to expect that Anthropic general counsel sits at the API gates allowing or blocking requests?

More generally, are there any comparable contract requirements in the field of defense, for a company in the same position as Anthropic? I'm curious.

_heimdall 5 hours ago||||
You're missing the huge step that the government asking for "all legal uses" terminology is also who decides what is legal. Congress isn't willing to act as a check on executive power, meaning the contract they demanded simply says "I do what I want."
realo 5 hours ago|||
Sure... So the USA of Trump have just decided to stop themselves and all their military suppliers from using the very best coding tools.

I suppose the USA's frenemies will jump on the occasion and use the incredible opportunity offered to them in a silver platter.

wrs 5 hours ago|
Once again our leadership is "playing government" like a bunch of 12-year-olds, lashing out impulsively without thinking of the consequences. And no doubt once again it'll take a year for this to wind its way through the legal system and be reversed long after the damage is done, as is finally happening with the tariff fiasco.
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