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Posted by sam_palus 12 hours ago

Launch HN: Palus Finance (YC W26): Better yields on idle cash for startups, SMBs

Hi HN! We’re Sam and Michael from Palus Finance (https://palus.finance). We’re building a treasury management platform for startups and SMBs to earn higher yields with a high-yield bond portfolio.

We were funded by YC for a consumer-focused product for higher-yield savings. But when we joined YC and got our funding, we realized we needed the product for our own startup’s cash reserves, and other startups in the batch started telling us they wanted this too.

We realized that traditional startup treasury products do much the same thing: open a brokerage account, sweep your cash into a money market fund (MMF), and charge a management fee. No strategy involved. (There is actually one widely-advertised treasury product that differentiates on yield, but instead of an MMF it uses a mutual fund where your principal is at considerable risk – it had a 9% loss in 2022 that took years to recover.)

I come from a finance background, so this norm felt weird to me. The typical startup cashflow pattern is a large infusion from a raise covering 18–24 months of burn, drawn down gradually. That's a lot of capital sitting idle for a long time, where even a modest yield improvement compounds into real money.

MMFs are the lowest rung of what's available in fixed income. Yes, they’re very safe and liquid, but when you leave your whole treasury in one, you’re giving up yield to get same-day liquidity on cash you won’t touch for six months or more. Big companies have treasury teams that actively manage their holdings and invest in a range of safe assets to maximize yield. But those sophisticated bond portfolios were just never made accessible to startups. That’s what we’re building.

Our bond portfolio holds short-duration floating-rate agency mortgage-backed securities (MBS), which are an ideal, safe, high-yielding asset for long-term startup cash reserves under most circumstances.[1]

The bond portfolio is managed by Regan Capital, which runs MBSF, the largest floating-rate agency MBS ETF in the country. Right now we're using MBSF to generate yields for customers (you can see its historical returns, including dividends, here: https://totalrealreturns.com/n/USDOLLAR,MBSF). We're working with Regan to set up a dedicated account with the same strategy, which will let us reduce fees and give each startup direct ownership of the underlying securities. All assets are held with an SEC-licensed custodian.

Based on historical returns, we target 4.5–5% returns vs. roughly 3.5% from most money market funds.[2] Liquidity is typically available in 1-2 business days. We will charge a flat 0.25% annual fee on AUM, compared to the 0.15–0.60%, depending on balance, charged by other treasury providers.

We think that startup banking products themselves (Brex, Mercury, etc.) are genuinely good at what they do: payments, payroll, card management. The problem is the treasury product bundled with them, not the bank. So rather than building another neobank, we built Palus to connect to your existing bank account via Plaid. Our goal was to create the simplest possible UX for this product: two buttons and a giant number that goes up.

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_gwSqtnxM

We are live with early customers from within YC, and accepting new customers on a rolling basis; you can sign up at https://palus.finance/.

We'd love feedback from founders who've thought about idle cash management or people with a background in fixed-income and structured products. Happy to go deep in the comments.

[1] Agency MBS are pools of residential mortgages guaranteed by federal government agencies (Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac). It's a $9T market with the same government backing and AAA/AA+ rating as the Treasuries in a money market fund. No investor has ever lost money in agency MBS due to borrower default.

It's worth acknowledging that many people associate “mortgage-backed securities” with the 2008 financial crisis. But the assets that blew up in 2008 were private-label MBS, bundles of risky subprime mortgages without federal guarantees. Agency MBS holders suffered no credit losses during the crisis, and post-2008 underwriting standards became even stricter. If anything, 2008 was evidence for the safety of agency MBS, not against it.

The agency guarantee eliminates credit risk. Our short-duration, floating-rate strategy addresses the other main risk: price risk. Fixed-rate bonds lose value when rates rise, but floating-rate bonds reset their coupon based on the SOFR benchmark, protecting against interest rate movements.

[2] This comes from the historical spread between MMFs and floating-rate agency MBS; MMFs typically pay very close to SOFR, while the MBS pay SOFR + 1 to 1.5%. This means that if the Federal Reserve changes interest rates and SOFR moves, both asset types will move by about the same amount, and that 1-1.5% premium will remain.

This post is for educational purposes only and does not constitute financial, investment, or legal advice. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Yields and spreads referenced are approximate and based on historical data.

44 points | 70 commentspage 3
andrewljohnson 12 hours ago||
We use Mercury’s treasury account to get yields on cash, and what appeals to me is it is easy to manage. I don’t have to worry about setting up processes to move money around and it’s integrated with my bank account, and we wouldn’t want to switch even for a higher yield… the operational burden is more important to us than yield.

I think the yield is about 3.2% based on how we set it up to be as liquid as possible. We could have accepted less liquidity for more like 3.8%

mogonzal 11 hours ago|
Hey Andrew thanks for the feedback

We know that the main barrier to switching is just time and ease of use, so we deliberately built this to have the same operational burden as using your current treasury product

Palus links straight to your bank account just like Mercury, and we'll also allow you to set up rules for moving money around!

That said, if there's any other features that really keep people tied to their current products we want to know about it. Our goal here is to build something that actually cares about the fact that you're a startup with limited time to care about yields, and not just throw your money in a generic fund and forget you exist

Lionga 12 hours ago||
Any higher yield comes from higher risk. If any startup feels the startup is not risky enough and really wants to have higher yield for higher risk just put the money in a Bond ETF that suits your risk appetite. Crazy that YC funds things that make a simple thing more complex and more costly for zero upside.
sam_palus 10 hours ago|
The bond funds offered in existing startup treasury products aren't suited for startups' long-term cash reserves. They either offer low-yield money market funds, or bond funds that aren't well suited for capital preservation on the order of months the way startups operate (see here for an example of VFSTX, the fund offered by one of the leading startup treasury products today: https://totalrealreturns.com/n/USDOLLAR,VFSTX?start=2021-01-...)

Our goal is to make sophisticated treasury management easy for startups. With Palus, they don't need to manage a brokerage account, or handle treasury ladders, or anything like that.

TZubiri 12 hours ago||
If the value proposition is better interest rates, it sounds like Palus would get that by giving up their cut, what would be your monetization strategy then?
mogonzal 10 hours ago|
Lucky for both of us, the value prop isn't just "we are offering better interest rates on the same instruments because we gave up our cut"

It's actually "we found a way better set of instruments for long-term cash that allow us to offer better interest rates without giving up the cut altogether"

That being said, we do think the current treasury products can be a little predatory with their rates. For example, Rho charges a variable rate that peaks at 0.6% for any deposit of $2M or less. We think that's crazy so our margin is a flat 0.25%, no asterisks or fine print.

TZubiri 8 hours ago||
As other users mentioned, that would probably raise concerns about risk. In terms of yields for startups I'm assuming we would be talking about zero risk assets, that is US treasury. But I'd be interested in learning about these alternative assets.
mogonzal 7 hours ago||
That's totally fair. Risk is 100% the right concern to have when you hear about higher yields

We have a pretty comprehensive blog post about these assets (floating-rate agency MBS) and why we think they are a much better fit for startup treasuries. I encourage you (and anyone else reading this) to give it a read so that you understand exactly how they work and what the tradeoffs are: https://www.palus.finance/info/safety

That said, we understand not everyone wants to spend their day reading our blog posts. So the best tl;dr we can give is that the higher yields do not come with a credit risk, but instead with 1-2 days of liquidity cost versus same-day for MMFs. Which is much more ideal for a startup's idle cash

TZubiri 7 hours ago||
Interesting, I think maybe an approach that would sell me more is actually leaning into the risk aspect a little bit. If you tell me that there is no beta increase, just pure alpha, alarms ring off, but if there is a slight beta with outsized alpha, then I think of it as a tradeoff that I am making, I am willing to take a little bit more risk for a higher return, which might in turn reduce longer term startup risks and allow me to increase my chances of winning by having an extra month or two of runway, now I'm comparing risks instead of thinking about just the risk you introduce.

It helps that even if from Palus' perspective there is no increased beta risk compared to the market standard of treasury instruments, even if your thesis that the alpha comes from an inefficiency due to bad 2008 reputation, as a buyer there is still a non-systemic risk associated with going for a niche provider and trusting you.

So when you consider that in the eyes of a buyer there's already a non-systemic risk inefficiencies based on lack of distributor trust, then it doesn't really make sense to keep systemic risk low, I think the play here would be to increase the systemic risk of the play to something manageable, since the customer is already paying a last-mile risk of trusting you as a distributor of the federal products.

All of this might make it more tempting for clients to switch and choose you, otherwise if the choice is between 3.5% and 5%, it's not really a significant difference, however if the difference is 9% vs 3.5% and the risk is minimal, then maybe startups will bite, founders are already making wild bets, it isn't crazy to bet that there will not be a housing market crisis and that a provider won't scam you. If that happens tough luck, I guess.

I would go even further and say that this bet could be tied into the vision or industry of the founder, for example if the founder thinks that things are basically the same as they always were and that AI won't change the market dynamics much, then that's not a strong sale because lightning may strike twice on the same spot.

Or to put a simpler example, the industry itself might make it a good fit, if the industry is Real Estate that's the most obvious example, they are going bust anyways if there's a housing crisis. But if it's entertainment, or any other industry that depends on consumers having large discretionary income, they are probably going to fail anyways if there's a large consumer crisis.

So yeah, tl;dr I think that the better play is to lean into the risk rather than trying to communicate that there is no risk.

sam_palus 7 hours ago||
I definitely see your point. Our thesis with the MBS product, in finance terms, is that most startups can afford to take on a bit more liquidity risk on their long-term cash (on the order of a couple of days) to get significantly better yields without taking on credit or price risk on their principal.

We've had discussions about offering products in the future with higher yields that carry more risk. Most founders we've talked to are very risk-averse on their company treasury, but if our users tell us they want access to different instruments with different risk profiles, we're happy to meet them where they are.

I_am_tiberius 11 hours ago||
Did YC finally stop investing in AI companies only?
mogonzal 10 hours ago|
Haha just wait until we add a chatbot in the corner of your window that's constantly pinging you to deposit more money

Name suggestions are appreciated

d--b 7 hours ago|
Dude, don't put safe and high-yielding next to each other. It makes your post look like a scam.

1% spread is in fact, pretty small, so yeah, it probably isn't very risky.

mogonzal 7 hours ago|
The reason for the current framing is that pretty much every founder we have spoken to hears "high yield" and then instantly asks about safety. But like you said, at this spread it isn't risky

But yeah, any time you put those two words together it inspires skepticism, which is totally understandable. I think this comes down to a lack of education, most people think the only two dimensions in this space are yield vs risk when in reality there is a third one (liquidity) that is balancing out the spread

Super open to suggestions for alternate framing. Maybe something like "optimizing" yields?