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Posted by fortran77 2 hours ago

War prediction markets are a national-security threat(www.theatlantic.com)
133 points | 80 comments
abustamam 10 minutes ago|
For whatever it's worth, Kalshi refused to pay out on the bet because Khomenei died, and they refuse to allow people to profit off of death so they returned everyone's bets.

https://xcancel.com/mansourtarek_/status/2029996077554815268

While I think this policy removes one avenue of incentivizing death of real people (many bets involving real people can probably be resolved by some sort of assassination attempt), I honestly think the whole concept of betting on real world events is ludicrous to begin with, including sports. It always incentivizes behavior that doesn't naturally occur (the trope of fixing horse races comes to mind).

xeromal 8 minutes ago|
What is xcancel?
tossit444 6 minutes ago||
Nitter instance for Twitter/X. https://github.com/zedeus/nitter
xeromal 47 seconds ago||
Thank you! Nitter looks great.
avaer 5 minutes ago||
This is a real thing that has been proposed, going back at least to 90s cypherpunk culture [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_market

Footnote7341 2 hours ago||
Isnt this silly when you can calculate the chance of war in Iran by oil futures instead. Prediction markets are just explicit markers of information that is already being traded on in 100 different ways.
jimkleiber 2 hours ago||
Yeah but less direct incentive than "If my friends (and I) bet money on X, and I do X, they (and I) make money."
metalcrow 1 hour ago||
Not by much, plus the volume is much lower on prediction markets, so people with large pockets who happen to be in power and are capable of doing big moves like this would make more money on the oil futures.
pinkmuffinere 47 minutes ago||
I wonder if there's profit to be made by looking at the futures markets, figuring out the implied probability distribution of different events, and then buying prediction markets when there's a mis-match? There sure are many inexperienced players entering predictions markets, just waiting to be fleeced...
metalcrow 13 minutes ago||
That's one of the intended uses of prediction markets! Although much like cryptocurrency arbitrage i assume the margins are small and will quickly be eaten by bigger fish.
breppp 1 hour ago|||
The idea is not economic hedging but gambling and corruption
nazcan 56 minutes ago||
Yes, but they are saying that if you allow economic hedging, you are also allowing gambling - just a bit more indirectly.
breppp 49 minutes ago||
maybe, but that is a by product of a real function (hedging). The reason prediction markets deal with news is so they can attract gamblers. Also compare marketing efforts of prediction markets and SEC control of real markets
tlb 39 minutes ago|||
Oil prices are affected by many other things too. It's valuable to isolate individual factors.
amelius 1 hour ago|||
Yeah we should ban derivatives too.
Zigurd 1 hour ago|||
I hope everyone reading this realizes that commodity futures are useful and easily distinguished from prediction markets, which are a ruse to get around restrictions on gambling.
gruez 1 hour ago|||
/s?
JumpCrisscross 1 hour ago||
Don’t think so. A lot of peoples’ first reaction to something they don’t understand is to try and make it go away.
fragmede 1 hour ago||
A lot of people reaction to understanding what derivatives are are also to try and make them go away. Thinking derivatives are legalized gambling, and being against gambling entirely, doesn't require a lack of understanding of derivatives to be against them.
alephnerd 1 hour ago|||
> Isnt this silly when you can calculate the chance of war in Iran by oil futures instead

This is why I'm opposed to prediction markets - they're gamified futures contracts (unsurprising given the founders at Kalshi are ex-Citadel and why Intercontinental Exchange executed growth equity rounds with Polymarket). A lot of degenerate gamblers are basically being taken to the cleaners as they lack the experience to actually mitigate risk or understand how to strucure futures contracts.

And an actual insider has much easier and much more legally defensible alternatives to conduct insider trading than using a platform that has KYC requirements.

pstuart 1 hour ago||
Except this wasn't driven by Oil. It was driven by Israel.
thephyber 34 minutes ago|||
The White House has admitted that Israel had actionable intelligence that several of the Iranian political leadership were having a physical meeting together and they decided to attack to decapitate the government. The US decided to attack Iranian capabilities preemptively to reduce the inevitable response to US military, embassies, and allies in the region.
_menelaus 8 minutes ago|||
This is the same Whitehouse blackmailed by the Israeli Epstein operation.
mullingitover 28 minutes ago|||
It’s bad enough the politicians lied when they campaigned on no more wars in the Middle East, they don’t need to insult our intelligence with these moronic cover stories.

If they didn’t want Israel dragging the US into wars they could’ve just placed a call to Iran to warn them.

pstuart 20 minutes ago||
We live in a post truth age, unfortunately. Many citizens are happy to only hew to the truth that they want, versus the "real" truth. (note the quotes -- truth is tricky).

There's a bitter irony in this issue -- toppling the regime in Iran would be a wonderful thing, but doing so via bombs is not the way. We have Afghanistan and Iraq as very dear lessons in how not to do it.

Dig1t 58 minutes ago|||
No idea why you're being downvoted, there is a mountain of evidence that this is the case. We are doing this because of Israel.

Marco Rubio said outright we went in because of Israel. Just watch Trump's speeches, he literally talks about the power of the Israel lobby and hopes he is doing a good job for them. Netanyahu has visited Trump 7 times in the last year, each visit has been leading up to this move. Trump's biggest mega donors are Israeli dual citizens with strong ties to their home country. Miriam Adelson, Sheldon Adelson, Larry Elison (who has conveniently taken control of the TikTok algorithm and banned the phrase "#freepalestine" through his connection with Trump) have donated hundreds of millions for this exact outcome. These donors have direct ties to the Israeli government.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/13/who-is-miriam-adel...

There is very little evidence that the strikes are being driven by oil, in fact oil is the perfect excuse to use as cover. It was the exact same thing with the Iraq war. Iraq and Iran were the two largest threats to Israel, we went into Iraq to regime change them and now we are finishing the job with Iran. Now there are no threats to Israel's expansion to the rest of the middle east. The ruling party (Likud) supports the Greater Israel project, which aims to expand Israel's borders to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

pstuart 53 minutes ago||
I'm assuming that it's assumed that I'm slagging on Israel for some irrational hate -- I'm not. I'm commenting based upon reports that I've seen (effectively what you're referred to), not on ideology or feellings.

Thanks for having my back! I think of HN as a community of intelligent people and it's always disappointing to be reminded that that alone is no guarantee of healthy discourse.

furyofantares 17 minutes ago||
To whatever extent this is true, one would also expect it to be manipulated by all interested state actors.
unyttigfjelltol 52 minutes ago||
Folks, the President announced the attack and rough date ten days in advance.[1] He did the same exact thing in 2025, with strikes beginning on the 61st day after a 60-day deadline.[2]

This particular market wasn’t about the likelihood of a strike but the probability of radical success. It seems at least possible in the circumstances that the Iran Supreme leader chose his own fate, which was inherently predicable and also exactly what I seem to recall him publicly predicting, albeit without a strict deadline.[3]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c86yjnw4x49o

[2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/trump-says-he-g...

[3] https://www.malaysianow.com/news/2026/03/01/khamenei-killed-...

thephyber 1 minute ago||
You are pretending like it was inevitable that negotiations would fail and that Trump wouldn’t chicken out. Those are the likely alternatives in the betting market.

I would argue that Trump probably wouldn’t have felt confident enough to do this if he wasn’t already running on a high after the Venezuela war going so well for him.

dastuer 40 minutes ago|||
The site you cite for [3] reads:

"Khamenei, the leader of the great nation of Iran, the freedom seekers of the world and the Islamic nations, has joined the highest paradise and reached his long-cherished wish of martyrdom in the holy month of Ramadan," said an announcement aired on Iranian state television.

Sounds to me like it was made up after the fact.

abustamam 21 minutes ago||
In Islam, a Muslim who dies in war is considered a martyr, and it's desirable to die in the month of Ramadan. In other words, it's something that most Muslims want to have happen, but it's not like something we want to make happen. Like I don't want to die right now, but if I were to die, may as well be during Ramadan.
unyttigfjelltol 5 minutes ago||
Yeah, I was recalling public references to Husayn ibn Ali (Haider) [1] preparing for battle. This individual is revered for both martyrdom and victory, so I guess which one he had in mind is technically ambiguous…. It’s also the same figure that the Iranians referenced after his death .[2]

[1] https://nypost.com/2025/06/18/world-news/iran-supreme-leader...

[2] https://www.news18.com/world/in-the-name-of-haidar-last-post...

AnimalMuppet 26 minutes ago||
That gives me pause, given what he's been saying about Cuba recently...
Uhhrrr 2 hours ago||
Placing a bet based on insider national security information should be regarded as leaking. But the markets aren't the problem here.
jimkleiber 1 hour ago||
Well markets give a huge financial incentive for it. Before you had to get paid a bribe for an intelligence agent. Now you can just "legitimately" bet on a market. It's a LOT easier and more spread out, I imagine.
spiderice 35 minutes ago||
The existence of banks gives a huge financial incentive to rob them. That doesn't mean we should get rid of banks. It means we should create a huge disincentive to rob them (which we do). Same thing needs to happen to people using national intelligence secrets in prediction markets.
_vertigo 1 hour ago||
You couldn’t design a better system for incentivizing leaks if you were trying. Hell, the CEO literally said as much. Not sure how you can conclude the markets aren’t the problem.
abustamam 15 minutes ago||
Yeah I had to reread that part... I was like, no way the CEO of Polymarket publicly said on record that it incentivizes leaks. Had to check to make sure I wasn't on the onion.
_vertigo 1 hour ago||
Rhetorical question: why do non-insiders still bet in these markets? Surely, after all of the focus on insiders, people will begin to realize that betting without insider knowledge is a fool’s gambit..
coliveira 1 hour ago|
Because the way these companies make money is incentivizing the behavior of gambling addicts. It's just like asking why people will continue taking drugs if it's known to harm them.
int32_64 1 hour ago||
Lindsey Graham candidly admitting to being the agent of a foreign country is a National-Security threat.
coliveira 1 hour ago||
He's not afraid because there are countless others in congress.
Analemma_ 38 minutes ago||
The Foreign Agents Registration Act has a de facto Israel exception. If it didn’t, half of Congress would be in violation.
andai 1 hour ago||
> The day before, 150 users bet at least $1,000 that the United States would strike Iran within the next 24 hours

Yeah, I heard the same thing at the same time from several friends. And I'm not talking top brass, so it must have been pretty obvious at that point.

brandall10 1 hour ago|
There were definite geopolitical signals of an impending conflict - ie. warships moving into the region, Iran increasing oil exports just days before the attack.

I guess what might be more interesting is how many people bet $1000 the day before that, and the day before that. That would be more helpful to determine what is noise from well-informed outsiders vs. insiders.

pinkmuffinere 53 minutes ago|||
> There were definite geopolitical signals of an impending conflict - ie. warships moving into the region, Iran increasing oil exports just days before the attack.

As a noob to this area, how would [Iran increasing oil exports] indicate [higher chance of impending conflict]? Is the idea that Iran exported more oil to raise some funds in expectation of the conflict? Surely if Iran expected conflict it would have done more than just increase oil exports?

brandall10 46 minutes ago||
It could signal potential disruption to the Strait of Hormuz.
AnimalMuppet 23 minutes ago|||
And what were the odds?

That is, if it's 20:1, say, then I can bet $1000 to win $20,000. I can do that several days in a row (if I've got that kind of money). If I think there's, say, a 25% chance that the US is going to attack, then I only have to be within four days.

beyondCritics 23 minutes ago|
Statistical clueless amateurs found something they did not like, but of course were unable to convert their suspicions into something sound. They do not even think about it. Nevertheless a big sensation was anounced. I am tired of this.
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