Posted by azhenley 8 hours ago
I am automating Unity with headless method invocation of agent authored editor scripts. I don't think "struggle" is the word I'd use to describe how GPT5.4 is currently performing.
I can tell the agent things like "iterate over all scenes. Wrap lightmap baking in a 5 minute timeout. Identify all scenes that exceed baking time. Inspect the scene objects and identify static geometry with poorly configured light map scale relative to their world space extents."
Never mind, found this in the docs: https://fna-xna.github.io/docs/appendix/Appendix-A%3A-Native...
MonoGame is trying to evolve XNA in small ways.
For a new project I would pick MonoGame.
I've been happy with monogame when I used it in the past. I'm pretty sure Celeste was made with FNA
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Celeste https://celeste.ink/wiki/Version_history
Monogame on PC used to be somewhat buggy in my hobbyist experience.
It’s really good, also it was very cool as a junior developer to see the code for the methods I used.
The lead architect (I think) of Xenko also wrote SharpDX which MonoGame used for a while though.
I wonder how it compares, if at all, with Godot nowadays.
In fact RayLib has C# bindings so worth considering these two.
I think the greatest flaw in MonoGame, however, is that their cross-platform abstraction notably excludes web. Given how relatively thin MonoGame is, I think you're better off building your own framework that supports compiling to WASM as well, if you have any experience as a developer already. It is what I did and took some effort but was pretty well doable and didn't take all that long, and the payoff of being able to share your games instantly in the browser for anyone to play with just a click of a link is so worth it.
The other notable flaw in MonoGame is that the content pipeline thing it has is horrendous. When I tried it, I ended up simply bypassing using that pipeline at all. They are currently in the process of reworking it completely, I believe, but I'm not sure when that's supposed to release.
Maybe the value in MonoGame is that it does support consoles, though; I have no idea what developing for console is like, and only target web/computer/phone OS platforms myself.
That might be changing: https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/110863
Besides, there's a lot of value Unity, Unreal and Godot provide besides just the GUI in ways similar to and different from MonoGame.
You can write a lot of code when using Godot and mix that with capabilities provided by their editor.
You never have to use editor features, but can use them to avoid wasting time reinventing the wheel.
Your comment is like saying that game engines are used by people who don't care for programming and would rather make a call to handle physics interactions.
It's always funny to me that this metaphor is used to indicate a bad thing, but re-inventing the wheel is actually very valuable. Note that our vehicles do not run on stone wheels. Thank goodness we kept re-inventing wheels that were more suitable for our specific use cases! This metaphor is, therefore, exactly apt for describing off-the-shelf game engines. All of the big open game engines are heavy and make a ton of decisions for you that will not be optimal for your specific game, because they make generalized decisions necessary to support all kinds of games. This does save you time, and you can absolutely make games that are good enough with them, but it's ridiculous to me to describe making your own engine as wasting time. It's spending time to gain a benefit, which is a trade-off that is worth it for some and not necessary for others.
Writing your own engine is great if you want to learn how to write a game engine. Knowing how to make a game engine can be helpful when making a game, but it's not necessary to make a game. Further, if you want to learn how to make a game, it might be more worth your time to simply use an engine that already does all the things you need. That way your time and energy can be focused on making the game, which is what your goal is.
Being condescending or dismissive of tools that do everything your tools you're going out of your way to construct will have to do is... weird logic. Because the same argument goes all the way down. Why wouldn't you make your own text editor? Why wouldn't you make your own compiler? Why wouldn't you make your own kernel? Why wouldn't you make your own architecture? "If you wish to make a pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."
The answer is: because we're human beings with limited lifespans. We must stand on the shoulders of giants to see further.
And there's a reason nobody came even close to his grandiose.
> Being condescending or dismissive of tools that do everything your tools you're going out of your way to construct will have to do is... weird logic.
They've merely pointed out that there's nothing wrong with reinventing tools, you're the one attacking them.
I don’t have any issue with people using an engine like Godot or Unity or RPG Maker or Unreal or anything else, but I do think that there can be value in “owning the entire stack” of a project, even if that means “reinventing the wheel”.
When I do a project involving HTTP, I could reach for Rails or something, it’s a valid enough and I certainly have done that plenty of times, but I often will work with a lower level protocol. Depending on the language I will use a more simple HTTP server thing like Axum with Rust, and other times I will go full epoll/Selector with a raw socket.
I do this for a variety of reasons, but the main one is that I can build my own framework that works in a way that I think and I don’t pull in a bunch of extra crap I don’t need. I can optimize the “hot paths” of my particular project without worrying about a one-size-fits-all you get for generic frameworks, I don’t have to worry as much about leaky abstractions, and I am intimately familiar with a much larger percentage of the codebase.
There is value in both approaches.
People who don't like programming, who wish to abstract it all away and "stand on the shoulders of giants"[1] without understanding anything about the giants, seem to view low-level code as a bogeyman. It doesn't take a lifetime to understand. To the contrary, I would argue that low-level code is easier to work with than working only with high-level code, because you can reason about it. The more you rely on abstractions you don't understand, the more impossible it becomes to effectively reason about anything, because your reasoning is glossing over the details that make things work. But reasoning about primitives, and the things built out of those primitives that you understand, is not actually nearly as hard as the people who just want to plop Javascript libraries together and stop thinking about it would believe.
In particular, when it comes to games, especially 2D games (which are what Godot and MonoGame are typically used for), it's really not that hard. Windows has an API for doing X, Y and Z with graphics. Linux has an API for doing X, Y, and Z for graphics. You write a wrapper that your game code calls that passes through calls to each of those APIs with an #if statement filtering for which OS you're running on. Rinse and repeat the other set of platforms, with a bit of extra finangling for API limitations on web and phone OSes. Rinse and repeat for audio, input, and font handling. It took less than a month of work for me to get a polished cross-platform system working on five platforms. Not because I'm a genius, but because it's seriously just not hard. There are a thousand tutorials and books you could pick from that will give you a rundown of exactly how to do it.
Then, for example, writing your own rudimentary 2D GUI map editor can literally be done in a day. Presumably you know how to code a main menu. Add an option to the main menu that changes the gamestate to State.MapEditor when selected. Set a keybind on this state where your arrow keys increment or decrement X/Y coordinates, a keybind to place tiles/objects, a keybind to cycle which object ID is selected, and a keybind that calls a function which serializes your map state to text and saves it to a file. A little bit more work for a moving camera viewport, but it's not that hard. Want more features, polish it more. When you fully understand the primitives your system is built with, adding new features can be done quickly and easily, because it's so easy to reason about compared to reasoning about code you've never read built with primitives you don't understand.
3D does up the difficulty level, but it's by no means unachievable, either. The content creator Tsoding is currently doing a semi-weekly challenge to build his own 3D game engine from scratch on video, and he's making great progress despite not spending that much time on it, a side project that gets a few hours a week.
The end result of all this is a codebase that is more performant, lightweight, easy to read, and very easy to extend. I think developing your own engine can actually save time in the long run (if you're willing to forego the instant gratification), because it's so easy to fix bugs and add new features when you have a complete mental map of your codebase and the primitives used to construct it. For example, I have a friend who used Godot to develop a game, and they've been plagued for months with a low percentage chance of fatal crashes on a boss that they are completely unable to identify and fix, and it's because they don't have a mental map of the engine code. It's simply not even possible for them to reason about what in the engine could be going wrong because they don't even know what the engine is actually doing.
[1] Another metaphor that is grossly mis-invoked, in my view. Do you think Isaac Newton did not understand the work of those that came before him? The great thing about giants is that by doing the hard work of exploring new concepts, they make it easier for everyone who comes after them to learn them. I think it's a bit intellectually lazy to put off the work of giants as something that should not, or even can not, be learned.
[2] "like J.R.R. Tolkien wrote books, and there's a reason nobody writes books the way he wrote his." It's a real shame more people don't, considering there has never been a fantasy work rivalling his in the nearly century since.
Improving a wheel design does not require reinventing it. The people who designed the car wheel were able to look at previous designs of wheels instead of needing to invent the wheel themselves.
I've been using KNI but it's been a real headache getting my game to run on itch.io.
I asked it to create a canvas-like API, noting that it should create platform independent code. The canvas API populates arrays for vertices, indices, and other relevant things relating to draw batches. My game is built on top of this platform independent canvas code, and is itself platform independent.
Then you have the platform code, which simply reads the memory of those arrays and does what it needs to do to draw it in its environment. I have barely looked at the platform code but it seems to just work, and it is really performant. It around 1000 lines of code for the web target. The key is to use shared memory as the bridge between the compiled WASM code and the platform code for draw calls. As I said, it’s mostly just arrays of vertices, texture ids, and indices.
It took me some thinking on how to define textures in a platform independent way, but it all ended up working well. I bounced some ideas with the AI to come up with a solution just using ids.
From there I just kept adding more features, FMOD support, shaders, etc.
Edit: Oops, I misread that your comment was referring specifically to getting Monogame on web. I thought I’d leave it here anyway though because it might help you. The key insight for me was that the canvas API (and Monogame as well) is just batching up vertices, indices, into draw calls, before the platform specific stuff happens. I realised this after investigating how the Spine animation software was able to achieve so much cross platform support (it’s just providing triangles with texture ids to platform code). You don’t need any concept of a platform to represent the entirety of your games as triangles associated with texture ids in memory.
For the game I had already made progress on when trying MonoGame, I had already written a wrapper layer over the MonoGame APIs even before I had started on my own framework. My new framework wrapper layer was designed as similarly as possible, so transitioning my game code to the new framework was mostly painless, and only required adjusting the shape of some rendering/audio/input calls here and there.
They exist at different abstraction layers, so not really directly comparable.
It doesn't. Godot is a 3D game engine and editor. Monogame is more like SDL or Raylib: just a library to make writing games from scratch easier.
Yesterday I looked into Monogame, FNA and Raylib. Just always surprises me how reading something somewhere makes people do similar things.
And it used to be there was still some dependency on old XNA plugins for assets pipeline on Visual Studio.
No idea where this stands now.
However it was yet another example of community standing up for the anti-.NET sentiment at Windows/XBox teams, when the persons involved left XBox team, XNA was quickly replaced by DirectX TK.
"The billion dollar decision that launched XNA"
You used to be able to use XNA to build Indie games for the Xbox 360, hard to believe, but this is going on 15 years ago at this point.
I built two indie games and made a couple of hundred bucks back when I was in High School. It's actually what got me into programming in the first place.
I'm happy to see that XNA became Monogame, it's one of the best frameworks I've ever used for gamedev.